Cardinal Being extended to New York (?)

[Viewliner]

According to one of the more reliable posters on trainorders (who has Amtrak Sources), stated that the Cardinal is supposed to be extended to/from New York effective October 26. This was how it had operated before it went Superliner. I think this is a smart change, but I guess this means the Cardinal will "forever" remain single level, hopefully, eventually it'd go back to Superliner. I guess the good thing is that now there's a little more consolidation of where the Viewliner fleet is, as well as adding a third New York-Chicago train.

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[battalion51]

My personal feeling on this one is that it's another rumor passed down from corporate to help stimulate morale. We get this crap from corporate all the time, David Gunn's personal secretary told an employee on his tour that the Palmetto "would definitely have a sleeper by the end of April or May." Well here we are in October, and unless I'm missing something here, there aint no sleeper on Palmetto bug. Not happening is my wager on this one.

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

I certainly hope it is a rumor, I always liked having the option of taking a superliner train from WAS to CHI. Personally, I like being able to say im on one of the only superliner trains in the east

 

[Viewliner]

I certainly hope it is a rumor, I always liked having the option of taking a superliner train from WAS to CHI. Personally, I like being able to say im on one of the only superliner trains in the east    

Theres still the Captol Limited, which still is Superliner and a WAS-CHI train. I think its good to have as many of the Viewliners going to one place (New York) as possible. Plus, if you're using single level equipment anyway, you might as well run it to New York, as more trains give more options to markets. Now, Baltimore and Wilmington will have a Direct link to Chicago, and Newark, Trenton, and Philadelphia (I'm presuming) will have a Second train to Chicago. (This is of course on the daysd it runs).

 

[Amfleet Fan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Cardinal run from Chicago to WAS, and vice versa?

What would be the point of extending that train to NYP with so many frequent connecting services?

 

[Amfleet]

Unless its form Gene Poon, most of what comes from Trainorders is rumor. I checked Amtrak's online reservation system and there was no Cardinal extension to NYC on 10/26, 10/27, or 10/28. I how, however, think it is a good idea to do an extension in the future since all Viewliner and Heritage trains go in and out of New York anyway. Then again, I would equally want the Cardinal to go back to Superliners.

 

[steve_relei]

It is more convenient to be able to stay on the same train to go, say, from Cincinnati to New York, rather than have to change trains.

 

[Viewliner]

Amfleet, the trainorders user who posted this has access to Amtrak sources, ex when the Surfliners had a Horizon set substituting, and knew the locomotive on the derailed star. Amtrak hasn't updated the site yet, but probably will closer to the 26th. I'd rather have the Cardinal be a Superliner equipped train so that maybe the Palm could get its sleepers back.

P.S. Amfleet, thats not entirely true, 448/449 and the Federal have Viewliners and neither train terminates in New York. What it will do is have a larger pool of Viewliners to allow for substituting a b/o Sleeper or diner.

 

[Amfleet]

Amfleet, the trainorders user who posted this has access to Amtrak sources, ex when the Surfliners had a Horizon set substituting, and knew the locomotive on the derailed star. Amtrak hasn't updated the site yet, but probably will closer to the 26th. I'd rather have the Cardinal be a Superliner equipped train so that maybe the Palm could get its sleepers back.
P.S. Amfleet, thats not entirely true, 448/449 and the Federal have Viewliners and neither train terminates in New York. What it will do is have a larger pool of Viewliners to allow for substituting a b/o Sleeper or diner.

I was more so thinking that if the Cardinal was extended to NYC that all trains that carry Heritage Diners would terminate there. That means WAS would not have to worry about working Heritage Diners and Dorms. Neither 448/449 and 66/67 carry a Heritage Diner or Dorm.

 

[AlanB]

I certainly would never discount anything I read on the net, nor would I necessarily accept it either without knowing the source. That said however, this is one move if true, that really makes no sense.

Extending this train to NY first off, IMHO is simply a waste. There is not enough thru traffic to justify it. You're just putting unnecessary wear and tear on the equipment for little passenger benefit.

There are already two trains that serve the NYP-CHI market that run far faster than the Cardinal. So most passengers will take those trains.

Additionally, unless they plan to change the train’s entire schedule, the calling times at NYP are ridiculous. They are not going to increase business out of NY at all. The Cardinal will arrive at NYP around 2:00 AM, assuming that it's running on time.

The train will need to depart at around 7:50 AM in the morning. While not quite as bad as arrival, it's still not going to drum up business. Who wants to get up at that hour, when they can wait until noon for the other two trains? Additionally Penn can't really handle another train sitting in the station at that hour, they need every platform they can get.

Now just imagine if the Card is running two hours late getting into NY. That barely leaves enough time to clean the train and get it ready for a 7:00 AM departure.

Finally you are now involving a power change. This means more crews are needed, both to make the switch and run the train. This also means another opportunity for an accident.

So while I'm not saying that it's not true, logic does not support the extension of this train to NYP. The gains simply don't outweigh the detriments.

 

[Amfleet Fan]

So while I'm not saying that it's not true, logic does not support the extension of this train to NYP.  The gains simply don't outweigh the detriments.

What Alan B said is what I felt when I wrote my original post.

The NYP - CHI market is already saturated, with ample connections for those who would want to go from Cincinnati to NYP.

 

[railohio]

Now just imagine if the Card is running two hours late getting into NY. That barely leaves enough time to clean the train and get it ready for a 7:00 AM departure.

The Cardinal doesn't run daily and there is an over 24-hour layover at the endpoints to get the train cleaned and sent out again.

 

[AlanB]

It is official now.

Amtrak has updated their on-line booking system to reflect the Cardinal's extension to New York. This includes the typical no passengers carried locally on the NEC restrictions, that the other long distance trains have.

While the calling times at NYP seem to be better than what I was guessing at, this is a move that in my opinion still does not make sense. Amtrak does not need this train running to NYP. I don't think that there is enough of a market for this train to run to NY.

 

[Amfleet Fan]

Once again, I agree with Alan on the re-routing of this train.

But here's an interesting question I posed on another board and didn't get much of an answer, so I figured some of you might have a good answer.

I understand this train is a similar consist to the Three Rivers, except is had a full service dining car.

Why does the Cardinal have a full dining car when it only runs 3x a week? I think the 3R should have the diner considering it runs daily, what does everyone think?

 

[AlanB]

But here's an interesting question I posed on another board and didn't get much of an answer, so I figured some of you might have a good answer.
I understand this train is a similar consist to the Three Rivers, except is had a full service dining car.

Why does the Cardinal have a full dining car when it only runs 3x a week? I think the 3R should have the diner considering it runs daily, what does everyone think?

Actually that's an easy answer.

The main reason is that the diner's came from what was the Silver Palm, now downgraded to the Palmetto. Thanks to the interoperability of swapping equipment within the Silver Service line, the Palm only used two diners.

Thanks to the Cardinal's three day a week schedule it also only requires two dining cars to serve the train. On the other hand the Three Rivers thanks to it's schedule would require 3 diners to properly serve the train. So Amtrak couldn't use the Palm's diners for the 3R's.

Additionally it also made sense from the perspective that the Cardinal always had a diner, even when it was using Superliner equipment. The 3R's hasn't had a diner for years.

Finally also figuring marginally into the equation is the fact that the Cardinal has the longer run, so the diner gets more use and Amtrak makes more money.