High Gas Prices Thread spawns new topic

[Midland Valley]

Considering the potential of chicago-florida market, especially when you throw in the Atlanta area, What is the problem with this possibility? (not counting infrastructure upgrades and equipment allocations). Why couldnt they run (at first anyway) a tri weekly from Chicago-Cincinatti (which would also make Cincinatti more viable) then onto Lexington, Knoxville. Atlanta and Jacksonville? Then hopefully it could be made a daily. I know the Cin-Knoxville line used to be pretty good and fast in Southern days. The promise of passengers trains over High Bridge, Ky. south of Lexington would be tremendous.

 

[MrFSS]

The promise of passengers trains over High Bridge, Ky. south of Lexington would be tremendous.

The schedule would probably have it pass that area at 2:00 in the morning the way they set them to be at the start and finish points at decent hours!!

 

[haolerider]

You have answered your own question - equipment, infrastructure upgrades, permission to use the tracks, DOT restrictions on new service until the loan is repaid, etc, etc.

It is certaily a viable route and there is usable track between Chicago, Atlanta and Savannah (rather than Jacksonville). All you have to do is monitor the license plates on Interstate 75 and you will see Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc - all going to Florida. The potential is there; however the obstacles are huge.

 

[lepearso]

I was one of the Tennessee activists for establishing the route in time for the 1994 olympics in Atlanta.

I recall that the biggest obstacle was getting Kentucky, Tennessee, and Indiana to ante up. The elected leaders from all three states supported the service, but turned and walked away when asked to look for funding.

Back when the Kentucky Cardinal was running, we pushed to get the route extended into Nashville, then later get it extended to Birmingham, and then eventually get it all way to the coast. As you all are well aware, we lost our momentum when that train disappeared.

I still think that a Chicago to Florida service is possible, but it will have to be built in increments before we can prove to these various states that the full route has potential.

 

[haolerider]

There seems to be revived interest in the Atlanta to Macon, GA commuter line and the logical extensions of that line would be south to Savannah - connecting to the Silver Service lines and north to Chatannooga - east to Nashville and then north through KY, IN and into Chicago.

Probably not going to happen in my lifetime however.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Midland Valley, I think you were thinking that Cincinnati, Lexington,Knoxville and Atlanta were Southern.

Actually Southern went Cincinnati, Lexington, Chattanooga, and Atlanta.

L&N went Cincinnati , Knoxville, Atlanta.

Your reference to the bridge in Lexington, etc brings back memories of the Royal Palm, New Royal Palm and Ponce de Leon. Perhaps you have some of the same memories?

BTW, Amtrak did at one time run from CHI to Miami, via, Indy, Lou, Nash, Bhm and Montgomery. That train was originally called the South Wind, from pre-Amtrak days, but Amtrak re-named it the Floridian. It suffered serious track deteriaton, slow schedule, frequent delays, several wrecks. It was terminated in 1979.

Being born in Chattanooga and now living in ATL I would especially enjoy revived serivce. But there are and were lots of obstacles, as already enumerated. Too bad, as there used to be SEVERAL routes all over the mid-west to Florida, not just those I have mentioned here..

 

[Midland Valley]

Midland Valley, I think you were thinking that Cincinnati, Lexington,Knoxville and Atlanta were Southern.
Actually Southern went Cincinnati, Lexington, Chattanooga, and Atlanta.

Well, that would work!

It is hard to keep fallen flags straight anymore with just two major carriers in the East NS and CSX and two in the west, the UP and the Burlington

 

[Midland Valley]

While I never got to ride any of those trains, I went to Seminary at Wilmore, KY (between Lexington and High Bridge) we used to go and sit at the bridge to watch freights cross, and to study also of course.

 

[MrFSS]

While I never got to ride any of those trains, I went to Seminary at Wilmore, KY

If you come back to visit, let me know. I live just north of Lexington.

 

[Midland Valley]

Sounds good! I'll probably be there in Feb. 07 for Ministers Conference and my 25th year reunion.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

While I never got to ride any of those trains, I went to Seminary at Wilmore, KY (between Lexington and High Bridge)  we used to go and sit at the bridge to watch freights cross, and to study also of course.

As to bridges, there is a neat railroad bridge over the Tennessee River just north of Chattanooga, Norfolk Southern it is today. There is also a dam a few yards from it, Chickamauga Dam. Makes for a good photo spot

There have been shots made through the years with the winter season New Royal Palm, crossing it. The NRP was a 14 or more car beauty with sleepers from Detroit, Cleveland,Buffalo and Chicago to Miami. --full of "snowbirds" in other words.

That whole Southern route from Cincinnait to Chattanooga is known as the "rathole division" because of so many tunnels, etc.

.

 

[Midland Valley]

Didn't they make a bunch of new cuts to eliminate many tunnels several years ago?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Didn't they make a bunch of new cuts to eliminate many tunnels several years ago?

I think so. I think it has been since passenger trains operated on it, so that would be within the last 33 years.(or more, since I think the Royal Palm last ran in 1969).

Stories about the "old rathole" get written up in TRAINS from time to time so yes I think I have seen something about extensive improvements.

 

[t]

Over several years I had the fun of making a trip from southern California to visit parents in Knoxville Tennessee.

There are several options to get to Chicago or New Orleans, or other locations. From there, the options diminish.

From Chicago, you can take the "City .of New Orleans" - but from Memphis the driving distance to the other side of Tennessee is just about as far as from Chicago (really!) - so all you are doing is joyriding.

I looked at travelling all the way to Washington DC, then down toward Atlanta. A bit longer - but reasonable since you can to get much closer that way.

New Orleans - challenging the way the schedules line up - and awkward getting to/from the west coast to New Orleans given the every other day schedule of the Sunset.

Some train that makes it from Chicago through that 'black hole' to Florida would be ideal.

Then again, the same 'black hole' exists for the Airlines. Except for Atlanta, getting to Knoxville, Nashville, Charlotte, etc is a painful and expensive connection. So is there really a market?

-- Karl

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Over several years I had the fun of making a trip from southern California to visit parents in  Knoxville Tennessee.  
There are several options to get to Chicago or New Orleans, or other locations.  From there, the options diminish.

From Chicago, you can take the "City .of New Orleans" - but from Memphis the driving distance to the other side of Tennessee is just about as far as from Chicago (really!) - so all you are doing is joyriding.

I looked at travelling all the way to Washington DC, then down toward Atlanta.  A bit longer - but reasonable since you can to get much closer that way.

New Orleans - challenging the way the schedules line up - and awkward getting to/from the west coast to New Orleans given the every other day schedule of the Sunset.

Some train that makes it from Chicago through that 'black hole' to Florida would be ideal.  

Then again, the same 'black hole' exists for the Airlines.  Except for Atlanta, getting to Knoxville, Nashville, Charlotte, etc is a painful and expensive connection.  So is there really a market?

-- Karl

Oh, yes. I do think there is a market. What the airlines do is mis-leadng since they are so centered on the "hub" concept. All over the southeast you have to fly to ATL and change to get anywhere. AND I have extremely sure there are "hubs" like that all over the country.

So the lack of good through air service from the smaller S.E. cities may make it look like low demand, but actually the passengers are just traveling all over creation to change in ATl to get where they are ultimately going.

Locals iin places like Chattanooga, where I am from, are fond of saying you have to go through Atlanta to get to heaven or hell.

When I was a kid in Chattanooga, and airline service was much younger, fresher, and not as dominant as it is now, one could fly direct from Chattanooga to all sorts of places, very well rounded service. Not so today, Seems like the last time I was at the CHA airport (about ten or twelve years ago, I guess) the direct service was sort of Atlanta, maybe Nashville or something and I think Cincinnati. Maybe one a day to NYC, I don't remember---I just know it is exeedingly sparse today. I do take the Chattanooga paper and note airline articles from that, and I don't think much has changed. Obviously the "hub" concept must be working well for the airlines . Perhaps it helps them with equipment issues, stemming from their astonishing growth.

But don't let that make you think there is no market from the smaller cities .(rail or air).

 

[lepearso]

The state of our transportation options in Tennessee is not good, as Bill just said.

Chattanooga has a right pretty airport, but the service is getting downright scarce. In fact, most people in Chattanooga ride a bus to Atlanta to fly somewhere because if you fly you out of Chattanoga you inevitably have to go through Cincinnati or Charlotte, and that is always slower and more expensive than flying direct our of Atlanta.

The situation is not much better out of Knoxville or out of Tri Cities.

Nashville has more flights than Chattanooga, Knoxville, and Tri-Cities combined. However, the drive to Nashville from East Tennessee can be hard to plan for because traffic inevitably slows in aknowledgment of Tennessee's new state symbol - the bright orange barrell in the middle of the road!

To make matters worse, we just lost Greyhound service to almost all of our small towns in Tennessee (even though most of them were dingy gas stations!).

Tennessee is growing and has a vital tourism industry, yet we are at a dead stop when it comes to transportation - literally!!!

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

lepearse, even though I haved lived in ATL for 28 years, I still visit Chattanoga regularly as I still have some relatives and friends there. Too bad how underused that beauiful little domed airport is.

It is actually relatively new---I think it was rebuilt after I had already moved down to ATL . But it was built just before the "hub" concept really caught on, leaving it high and dry, a lovely terminal for nobody!!

Of course one of the best things about either airport, the old Lovell Field or or the new Metropolitan one, is that the L&N tracks (now CSX) were across the street and if I were at the airport at the right time, heard a whistle, I could run to the entrance and see one of my trains pass by!