How is the reliability of the passenger cars?

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P40Power

OBS Chief
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Apr 1, 2003
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I was just wondering, everyone always talks about the reliability of different types of locomotives and different failures that occur to them and such. Passenger Cars can have failures too, and I was just wondering how Amtraks different kind of passenger cars fare reliability wise, and what kind of problems are common for the different cars?

Also do you think that Amtraks current fleet of cars could withstand the test of time and be around as long as the Heritage cars were?

Thanks alot, I appreciate it everyone who replys! :)
 
Some of the small failures of passenger cars are bad ordered tolilets, frozen plumbing in the winter, broken AC/heat, eltrical failures, etc. A larger failure would be something like a flat wheel or hot box. Even though Amtrak passengers cars have there problems, I think the failure rate is much lower than back in the Streamliner days before HEP. I'm guessing that since Amfleet and Superliner I cars are Budd and Pullman built they will last another 20 years in revenue service. Superliner II, Horizons, and Viewliners are also well built and could last up too 30 more years with rebuilds every 10-15 years. I think one reason passenger rail equipment lasts longer in this country is because technology for new cars does not advance as fast as in other coutries. Just my two cents.
 
Id imagine those steam heated cars must have failed all the time in the winter and such, yeah HEP is probably much more reliable. Bad ordered toilets seems to be a very common accurance on Amtrak. And Amfleet I agree with your last statement totally, just because its has more advanced technology and computerized guizmos, doesnt mean its better ... look at the Acela Express!!

As for new passenger cars sometime in the future, any chance for an Amfleet III?!
 
I could see an Amfleet III. Why draw up a whole new car design when you've got one right in front of you. Maybe make a few changes to the systems in the cars, enlarge the windows to an Amfleet II size, widen vestibules and doors, and maybe design trucks/wheels that can go 140mph. Just look at other designs, Superliner I, Superliner II, Surfliner, and California cars are all of the same style. So along with a Viewliner II and a Superliner III I think a new set of Amfleets would be mighty nice!
 
I agree, the Amfleet design DOES work. The Amfleet Is biggest flaw are its tiny windows I think, but you have to remember that these cars werent really designed to be for gazing at the senery, they were made as corridor cars, all business.

Amfleet Is have come a long way in comfort and looks though, the capston refurbishments are AWESOME!

I always found Amfleet IIs great too, very comfortable coaches.

I can see improvement though, such as having the seats lined up better with the windows, even though the paneling is nice to look at, I enjoy the senery a little better :p . But other then that I dont have any beefs with the Amfleet II cars, the windows are like perfect sized.

I also think Amfleets have a good modern look to them still, even after 25+ years (actually more if ya count the original metroliners!!)
 
Would the Amfleet III's be a corridor or long distance configuration? I would guess corridor as we'd want Viewliner/Superliner LD's. I agree the Amfleet's have held up very nicely over the years.
 
Thats a good question Viewliner, Im not sure which the Amfleet IIIs should be for. The Amfleet Is probably though I would think, because they are anywhere from 6-8 years older then the Amfleet IIs, but both Amfleet Is and IIs are holding up quite well like you said, and most of them have been heavily refurbished so I think they will stick around for at LEAST another decade if not more.

I would have to say have the IIIs for corridor configuration, no 84 seaters though, the 74 or whatever the capstone coach class cars have will be fine!!

They should come in a couple Different combos, heres my ideas:

Coachclass- Much like the current Capstone cars

Business Class - have a small area in the car where the free beverages and whatever can be put and cooled.

First Class (Club with seating on both sides of the car and food service area in middle, have some tables spaced in for business use or whatever)

Audio and Visual entertainment at the seats for First Class

Dinette - Forget about all the weird Amcafe combos and such now adays and just have full table cars, I think that would be great, business class would have its seperate car all together.

Im not sure with the Long Distance though, possibly a viewliner coach, though It really wouldnt be too much different then an Amfleet II, I mean its not like you can have a second set of windows up top like the sleeper in a Viewliner coach, since the luggage racks are there.
 
P40Power said:
though, possibly a viewliner coach, though It really wouldnt be too much different then an Amfleet II, I mean its not like you can have a second set of windows up top like the sleeper in a Viewliner coach, since the luggage racks are there.
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I don't know, it may be good to have the second row of windows. I think Battalion would have better input on that though.
 
I think the Amfleet III's could be made to replace the Amfleet I's in about 10 years or so. I like P40 Powers idea with the Coach Class, Business Class, First Class, and Dinette idea.

Amfleet II Coaches could get rebult, while the Lounges get rebuilt with an enclosed smoking room and coach seating. All 50 Viewliner Sleeping Cars could be rebuilt with the addition of Baggage, Lounges, Diners, and Crew Cars. Amfleet II cars would provide Cocach Class for long distance single-level trains.
 
I think that the Amfleet II's are starting to near the end of the usefulness life. Right now the cars are plagued with retention tank problems, failing electrical systems, failing air conditiong systems, and poor rebuilds. It may be time to invest in some new LD coaches in my opinion.
 
battalion51 said:
I think that the Amfleet II's are starting to near the end of the usefulness life. Right now the cars are plagued with retention tank problems, failing electrical systems, failing air conditiong systems, and poor rebuilds. It may be time to invest in some new LD coaches in my opinion.
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What those cars are suffering is not a bad rebuild, but a bad refurbishment. Refurbishment is when the cars interior plan reamins largely in tact, but the seats, walls, carpeting, and other visible material is replaced. A rebuild is when a car is stripped entirely of its interior, eletrical systems, plumbing, toilets, right down to the shell. From there a whole new system of electrical and plumbing componenets can be added along with new interiors. This is exactly what the Capstone project was. The Concept project was more of a half refurbishment/half rebuild program. As budgets became tight, most cars ended up with refurbishments. So I guess what I'm getting at is if the Amfleet IIs are stripped to the shell and rebuilt outside, in then I think another 20 years of life could be added. Remeber this is quality Budd steel we're talking about here.
 
Amfleet said:
I think the Amfleet III's could be made to replace the Amfleet I's in about 10 years or so. I like P40 Powers idea with the Coach Class, Business Class, First Class, and Dinette idea.
Amfleet II Coaches could get rebult, while the Lounges get rebuilt with an enclosed smoking room and coach seating. All 50 Viewliner Sleeping Cars could be rebuilt with the addition of Baggage, Lounges, Diners, and Crew Cars. Amfleet II cars would provide Cocach Class for long distance single-level trains.
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I agree with what Amfleet said is pretty accurate. However if the Amfleet II's can't be salvaged for short haul corridor then we'd need the Amfleet III's sooner.

Replacements Should go as follows:

1) Heritage [as planned]

2) Amfleet I or II depending on which fleet is in worse shape

Would it be practical to change the Amfleet II Doors to automatic if they were used in corridor service?
 
I would say that the Amfleet IIs need the complete overhaul more then the Amfleet Is, the Amfleet IIs see more long haul abuse and more milage.

Amfleet Is are always being maintenced in the bases around the corridors they operate more often then the nights away that the Amfleet IIs are in service!

The amfleet IIs probably could have alot of their ailments fixed by upgrading to better systems now advailable, but eventually they will need replacing sooner or later.

The Amfleet design is an awesomely strong design, they hold up good in wrecks!
 
Well with there only being 116 Amfleet II's active I think that if the air conditiong problems (along with all the other probelms) could be solved the cars would be great for corridor service as Business Class. The manual doors could be operated by the attendant, the leg room and leg rests could also be a major upgrade. But then again if they could solve all of the problems with the cars they would be fine in long haul service.
 
Speaking of passenger cars, I saw the Crescent sitting in the NOL maintenance yeard this morning at 3am while the Sunset was backing into the station. I noticed 2 Viewliner sleepers, 1 Diner, 1 Amfleet lounge, and 4 Amfleet II coaches making up the train's consist. Amfleet still looks sharp after all these years!!! It was an odd mix though, especially with that Heritage Diner in there.
 
That's a normal consist for them and the Silver Star. Won't see much variance from that.
 
If you think thats quite a a sight, that standard Cresent consist, well the Lake Shore Limited of 5 or so years would really impress you. They ran them LONG back then, 7 coaches, 4 sleepers (one heritage for dorm) 2 or more baggages, lounge, diner, and usually 3-4 MHCs. So in the summer the Lake Shore often hit 20 or more cars, and believe me it was quite a walk through all those coaches to get to the diner from the last coach where we were sat on the eastbound trip in 97!
 
The Lake Shore also ran with 2 lounges in the summer before the mid '90's to handle the extra crowds. On top of 4 Heritage 10-6 Sleepers (3 NYC, 1 BOS) each section had a Slumber Coach. The crew had their own dorm, not the ones you find today, but a combine baggage/dorm.
 
Holy crap Amfleet, the Lake Shore used to run that huge? Well Ive never seen the combined Lake Shore in the early 90s, or at least I cant recall it.

Anyways, they often ran a dome too on the Lake Shore often in the early 90s from reports I heard.

What was the interiors of Baggage Dorms like? Were the sleeping compartments half way decent, or on the border of not ridable?

But anyways, the current Lake Shore summer consist is fairly tiny compared to its former self!
 
A Dome Coach was added in Albany in the mid '90's after the Capitol Limited went to Superliners (this according to my Amtrak 30 video).

I have not heard any direct reports on what the Baggage Dorms were like. I'm guessing, however, they were most likely run down just as the rest of the Heritage Fleet was. I don't think the baggage area was ever used however, just like the failed smoking room concept on the Heritage Dorms today.
 
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