Hub for Amtrak in Atlanta proposed

[jis]

Sounds to me like a lot of money for a location served once a day each way, and maybe used by 50K passengers per year (according to Wikipedia). Even spread over 20 years, that's 700 dollars per passenger over the next 20 years.

You don't need a hub to serve only one train per day. Clearly the intention is to make it a hub, i.e have several regional trains radiate out from it and have additional LD service call there too. Otherwise at least it seems to me to be pointless if only one train is to serve it with no order of magnitude rise in usage.

 

[jimdex]

If Atlanta is going to be any kind of hub, it will need a new station. The current Atlanta Amtrak station is unsuitable to serve anything but Atlanta-New Orleans trains. A train between Chicago, Atlanta and Florida or running on any portion of that route would have to back up to reach the station. That would likely tie up a busy freight line for more than an hour in both directions, because there are only two through tracks and a siding at the station, and there's no room for anything else.

 

[west point]

Yes, Atlanta needs a station hub in the downtown Gulch. The proposed future Amtrak trains from Nashville, CHA, Savannah, Macon, JAX, DFW, & Montgomery will all need tracks and platforms for terminations and connections. Possible commuter north service from Bremen, Cartersville, Canton, Gainesville, Cedartown, Rome, & Athens will all have to travel thru Howell CP. As of now there are 4 parallel main tracks of NS &CSX from Howell to the downtown gulch, At one-time there was a 5th SOU team track west of those 4 that may allow restoration to a main track. But the CP at Howell does need vertical separation of NS from CSX for all these future services.

Future commuter service from the East -- Stone Mountain & Covington. Commuter service from Macon, Griffin, Manchester, LaGrange, & Columbus also possible, 4 Main tracks are feasible from East Point to the gulch.

So, any station built in the gulch will need a final plan for future additional station tracks as all these services are implemented. Probably design for max of 10 - 14 or whatever real estate allows max tracks and just build 4 - 6 with a loop to / from Howell. For a start that will give a location to store spare Amtrak cars & any private cars including NS office cars.

The NS 2 main tracks from Duluth to Howell has already space for a 3rd or 4th main track. That will be possible once the present Amtrak station is abandoned with some bridges needing another track space. Ga DOT has for several past years already built bridges and underpasses with room for 1 or more additional tracks,

 

[Chatter163]

It’s a long way from ever happening, but it’s a very necessary first step. The City of Atlanta supports the concept; the State of Georgia is probably less interested at this juncture. No specific location has been divulged. https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/amtrak-rail-hub-downtown-seek-30m-building-exclusive

 

[BlackDiamond]

Setting aside the land before it is gobbled up by development is a crucial first step.

 

[GaSteve]

There are many other issues with this, not the least of which is that there would have to be a fairly long backup move in or out of the location. The article referenced a rail "hub'. That's laughable. I would point out that several years ago there was a proposal for a station in the Atlantic Station area a mile or so southwest of the current station with good rail and automobile access, but GDOT sold the land.

 

[Chatter163]

There are many other issues with this, not the least of which is that there would have to be a fairly long backup move in or out of the location. The article referenced a rail "hub'. That's laughable. I would point out that several years ago there was a proposal for a station in the Atlantic Station area a mile or so southwest of the current station with good rail and automobile access, but GDOT sold the land.

Yes, that’s what I meant by little interest by the state.

 

[jis]

Amtrak is asking for $30 million to start work on securing property for a Hub station in Atlanta

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/amtrak-rail-hub-downtown-seek-30m-building-exclusive

The total projected cost of the project as seen in Amtrak's long term plan is slated to be around $700 Million. They have not specified what location, though the mention of "downtown" may indicate that the Doraville plan is on life support. But who knows? I am sure we will know a bit more over the enxt few weeks or months.

 

[GaSteve]

Yes, Atlanta needs a station hub in the downtown Gulch. The proposed future Amtrak trains from Nashville, CHA, Savannah, Macon, JAX, DFW, & Montgomery will all need tracks and platforms for terminations and connections. Possible commuter north service from Bremen, Cartersville, Canton, Gainesville, Cedartown, Rome, & Athens will all have to travel thru Howell CP. As of now there are 4 parallel main tracks of NS &CSX from Howell to the downtown gulch, At one-time there was a 5th SOU team track west of those 4 that may allow restoration to a main track. But the CP at Howell does need vertical separation of NS from CSX for all these future services.

Future commuter service from the East -- Stone Mountain & Covington. Commuter service from Macon, Griffin, Manchester, LaGrange, & Columbus also possible, 4 Main tracks are feasible from East Point to the gulch.

So, any station built in the gulch will need a final plan for future additional station tracks as all these services are implemented. Probably design for max of 10 - 14 or whatever real estate allows max tracks and just build 4 - 6 with a loop to / from Howell. For a start that will give a location to store spare Amtrak cars & any private cars including NS office cars.

The NS 2 main tracks from Duluth to Howell has already space for a 3rd or 4th main track. That will be possible once the present Amtrak station is abandoned with some bridges needing another track space. Ga DOT has for several past years already built bridges and underpasses with room for 1 or more additional tracks,

You're just dreaming about all that additional service. The State of Georgia has no interest in additional passenger rail service and has no interest in chipping in or subsidizing it, unlike NC and VA.

 

[jphjaxfl]

You're just dreaming about all that additional service. The State of Georgia has no interest in additional passenger rail service and has no interest in chipping in or subsidizing it, unlike NC and VA.

I heartily agree. I lived in Roswell, GA from 1996 to 2003. There were a number of proposals to start passenger train service from Athens to Atlanta, from Macon to Atlanta and others. No funding was approved for anything except studies which never went anywhere. Once while living in Atlanta, my wife and I hosted an Amtrak train trip to New Orleans and back. We had a car service pick us up in Roswell to go to the Amtrak station. The driver had no idea where the Amtrak station in Atlanta was or how to get there. I had to direct him. Amtrak is irrelavant as a transportation option in Atlanta.

You're just dreaming about all that additional service. The State of Georgia has no interest in additional passenger rail service and has no interest in chipping in or subsidizing it, unlike NC and VA.

 

[cirdan]

You don't need a hub to serve only one train per day. Clearly the intention is to make it a hub, i.e have several regional trains radiate out from it and have additional LD service call there too. Otherwise at least it seems to me to be pointless if only one train is to serve it with no order of magnitude rise in usage.

well, these days hub seems to be the buzzword and any rural bus stop is suddenly a hub.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

You're just dreaming about all that additional service. The State of Georgia has no interest in additional passenger rail service and has no interest in chipping in or subsidizing it, unlike NC and VA.

Georgia does seem interested in projects with high federal funding potential: SEHSR (Atlanta-Charlotte) & Atlanta-Meridian-Dallas. Meanwhile, urbanized Georgia sees routes like Atlanta - Athens - Savannah as obvious winners. Meanwhile, Georgia funds everything about its expanding seaport in Savannah, leading in competition with other East Coast ports. So in Savannah you may have the same port-rail vs. pax situation as in Mobile. It's fustrating journalists don't break it down the way I would like!

Georgia, Texas and Florida are the super-charged states of the region, and like you say, little gets done for intercity, but within urban areas, a lot gets done. An exception is the once-daily, state-subsized Heartland Flyer. While it's not commuter rail, DFW is close to the Oklahoma border. That border area of OK is exurban rolling countryside, with a gargantuan casino on the state line. OKC/Tulsa is further, across a range of hills, but they're used to long distances.

 

[GaSteve]

Georgia does seem interested in projects with high federal funding potential: SEHSR (Atlanta-Charlotte) & Atlanta-Meridian-Dallas. Meanwhile, urbanized Georgia sees routes like Atlanta - Athens - Savannah as obvious winners. Meanwhile, Georgia funds everything about its expanding seaport in Savannah, leading in competition with other East Coast ports. So in Savannah you may have the same port-rail vs. pax situation as in Mobile. It's fustrating journalists don't break it down the way I would like!

Georgia, Texas and Florida are the super-charged states of the region, and like you say, little gets done for intercity, but within urban areas, a lot gets done. An exception is the once-daily, state-subsized Heartland Flyer. While it's not commuter rail, DFW is close to the Oklahoma border. That border area of OK is exurban rolling countryside, with a gargantuan casino on the state line. OKC/Tulsa is further, across a range of hills, but they're used to long distances.

"Interested" is an overstatement. Nothing has been done in 30 years, why would they start now? I repeat, Georgia's attitude on passenger rail is on the other end of the scale from NC and VA.

 

[PaTrainFan]

"Interested" is an overstatement. Nothing has been done in 30 years, why would they start now? I repeat, Georgia's attitude on passenger rail is on the other end of the scale from NC and VA.

Georgia has other "priorities."

 

[cirdan]

Georgia does seem interested in projects with high federal funding potential: SEHSR (Atlanta-Charlotte) & Atlanta-Meridian-Dallas. Meanwhile, urbanized Georgia sees routes like Atlanta - Athens - Savannah as obvious winners. Meanwhile, Georgia funds everything about its expanding seaport in Savannah, leading in competition with other East Coast ports. So in Savannah you may have the same port-rail vs. pax situation as in Mobile. It's fustrating journalists don't break it down the way I would like!

Georgia, Texas and Florida are the super-charged states of the region, and like you say, little gets done for intercity, but within urban areas, a lot gets done. An exception is the once-daily, state-subsized Heartland Flyer. While it's not commuter rail, DFW is close to the Oklahoma border. That border area of OK is exurban rolling countryside, with a gargantuan casino on the state line. OKC/Tulsa is further, across a range of hills, but they're used to long distances.

All true.

And remember that things can change very quickly. It's not very long ago that, say NC or even FL or TX, weren't really places you'd go to see state-supported rail of any description, let alone anything you might hold up as an example to inspire others. One easily forgets that the projects that are in place now are the fruits of campaigning that started several decades ago by people who at the time were probably considered somewhat mad. It's very easy to feel despondent and cynical if you see only the immediate situation and not the longer term dynamics.

 

[jimdex]

well, these days hub seems to be the buzzword and any rural bus stop is suddenly a hub.

The word "hub" is significant when applied to Atlanta. The current Atlanta Amtrak stop can never be a rail hub, because it's merely a spot along a single line. Same would apply to the proposed Doraville station. Either works as long as Atlanta train service is limited to the Crescent, so the "hub" discussion is an obvious reference to regional train system proposals. And any coordinated plan to run regional service linking Atlanta with Nashville, Savannah and Charlotte would require a "hub" where the lines meet, in downtown Atlanta.

 

[west point]

The Atlanta gulch is the obvious location for a station. The solution for using this location will require a loop from the north to the north. Then Crescent and many other trains will have a HrSR line to and from Howell to the station at the gulch. No backing trains from Howell. The biggest cost of a loop will be the many possible unique crossing of the loop with the straight station tracks,

The loss of the Atlantic station property for a passenger station had the possibility of also having a loop track pointed toward Howell.

The Georgia political situation has much to do with the apparent dislike of rail. The congressional districts are somewhat gerrymandered. Those districts each have a GDOT representative who are very auto enabled. Just look at all the auto manufacturing going on in Georgia,