Interresting Capitol Corridor incident

[MrFSS]

I read this interesting post on the Usenet Rail group and thought this group would find it interesting, in light of some of the topics we have had lately about Amtrak employees.

Jack Hamilton has given me his pernission to repost this here.

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:09 PMSubject: Incident on train 538

I'm a regular rider on the Capitol Corridor between Sacramento and  Oakland, and I  received an email yesterday apologizing for a delay on train 538 last week.  The email said:

"We want to extend an apology to all passengers who were on board Train #538 (Oakland-Sacramento-Auburn) last Friday night, November 18,  2005.

This train was delayed at the Martinez Station for nearly 40  minutes due to a dispute  between a passenger and a member of the train crew. It  was both unnecessary and unfortunate, and as a result more than 400 passengers were delayed getting to their destinations on Friday afternoon and evening. Amtrak supervision has taken action to

ensure that this type of incident is not repeated in the future. Again, our sincere apologies to everyone involved."

Since those trains are often 40 or more minutes late with no apology being issued, I wondered what could possibly have happened.  I wasn't on that particular train, but a passenger yesterday told me what happened.

Some Capitol Corridor trains have a snack car with the counter upstairs and 11 seats  downstairs, along with a storage area (other trains have the counter downstairs).  The  conductors often take a set  of the downstairs seats with a table to spread out their paperwork.  I've sat down there once myself when the train was really crowded - there's  

no sign or any other indication that passengers aren't allowed, and it was obviously constructed with passenger seating in mind.

On Friday, a woman sat in one of the those downstairs seats.  A conductor asked her to move.  She refused, and the conductor "lost it", in the words of my informant.  The conductor called the police, who met the train at Suisun-Fairfield.

The policeman got on the train, looked at the sign by the seat that said "Reserved for passengers with disabilities", looked at the woman's white cane, looked at the seeing eye dog, and said "There's no way I'm going to ask her to move."  Eventually the train continued on its way.

Most of the members of the train crew seem like really nice people.

Obviously there are a few self-important bad eggs.  I hope Amtrak will do some customer service training - a few people on the Coast Starlight crew could use it as well (though, again, most are good at their jobs).

Jack Hamilton

California

 

[Steve4031]

On many trips in the mdwest corridor, I have seen the train set up shop at one of the tables in the lounge car, or at one of the seats in the food service car. Often times they have collected tickets and other aspects of the job spread out on the table. On the Pennsylvania, they often blocked off one half of the food car and once even scolded me for using the bathroom in that section.

This guy, if he had been observant, might have noticed the seeing eye dog and white cane, and would have reacted differently. The fact that he was in the "priority seating" area confounds his error.

It seems to me that the train crew should have an area to do their work with tickets and train orders, but passengers should still be treated respectfuly. I wonder what Amtrak's policy is in this matter.

 

[battalion51]

I definitely see both sides of the argument in this case. The passenger has every right since the area was designated for passengers with disabilities, but the Conductor is also the man in charge, and that's his office, if you will. Now obviously both parties could have done a better job in this scenario. The Conductor could have asked some of the other folks to move along so that the lady could occupy that space, or he could have moved his office if time allowed. Now I personally haven't been on a Capitol Corridor train, but I do know that there are times down here when you've got a thousand things going on and you need to be at the table with the tickets, manifest, and orders to keep the train moving in a safe and efficient manner. I know most people would be quick to blame the Conductor, he is the company, the lady is the guest. But in some ways it'd be like someone walking into a normal office building and taking a secretary's chair if she stepped away. It runs both ways. You may have a disability, and that is unfortunate, but that doesn't give you carte blanche to be a jerk.

 

[AlanB]

Now obviously both parties could have done a better job in this scenario. The Conductor could have asked some of the other folks to move along so that the lady could occupy that space, or he could have moved his office if time allowed.

I don't disagree that both people could have handled the situation better and you are correct that the conductor is the person in charge.

However this analagy is dead wrong.

But in some ways it'd be like someone walking into a normal office building and taking a secretary's chair if she stepped away. It runs both ways.

It not like that at all a secretary's space is not a public space. The cafe car is. The fact that the conductor would like to have an office does not give him the right to take over a table that is available to the public, especially a table that is clearly marked for handicapped people.

If Amtrak wanted the conductor to have a private office, then it should have provided one, like they did on the Acela trains. I rather doubt however that there is anything in the employee's handbook that states that a conductor is allowed to take over a revenue space for himself. It may be the accepted practice, and I'm not suggesting that the conductors don't need a work space. But they are not entitled to take over any public space for any reason, unless it's an emergency, just because they are the boss.

Taking over a table that I've paid to use is just the same as a conductor walking into my roomette and saying that he needs to use the room.

 

[The Chief]

Alan, I agree completely w/you and the Jack Hamilton repost. Mr. FSS, thanks for sharing.

Unlike Buhtallion Fifty One, I have ridden the Capitol Corridor trains.

This post reminded me of one trip, from SanFran to Sacramento in July 2004. I went below and sat at a table-for-four that had a sheaf of papers on it. A conductor came up in about five minutes and shot me a pi**ed-off "look" and a "harrumph," then picked up his papers and stormed to another table. There he collected his free meal and looked over his papers, finishing with the San Francisco Examiner for the rest of the trip.

Sorry pal, that's passenger space, and your attitude don't cut it in the customer service dept. Too bad that blind lady didn't cane him.

And the situation is nothing like a secretary's chair in a business office. Good grief.

 

[jccollins]

What stumps me if how the blind lady ended up in the lower level cafe car at one of the tables. When the conductors on the Capitols open the doors to allow passengers to board they never open up the doors to the lower level of the cafe car. It would almost seem like the blind lady had to enter through another coach's lower level door, go up the stairs, over to the cafe car and then down the stairs into the lower level of the cafe car.

I am shocked and apalled that a conductor would be that rude and hostile toward a disabled passenger even if she did encroach in "his" space. I am even more surprised by the lady's refusal to cooperate or seek assistance from the conductor to locate to another table. A little manners on the part of either of the parties involved could have really went a long way toward avoiding this incident and inconvenience of delaying the train.

 

[AlanB]

I am shocked and apalled that a conductor would be that rude and hostile toward a disabled passenger even if she did encroach in "his" space.  

This I don't understand at all, it's unthinkable that he was that rude to a handicapped passenger.

A little manners on the part of either of the parties involved could have really went a long way toward avoiding this incident and inconvenience of delaying the train.

Again, no argument from me there, both did not handle this incident properly.

I am even more surprised by the lady's refusal to cooperate or seek assistance from the conductor to locate to another table.

I'm not disabeled in any way, but unless there was another table available, I wouldn't have moved either. As a passegner paying a fare to travel, I am entitled to use that space. It does not matter that the conductor is in charge of the train, he is using revenue space. Space that any paying passenger is entitled to use.

I can't say it more plainly than he was wrong to order any passenger to move!

This is like a flight attendant ordering a passenger to get out of his seat, so that he/she can use the table tray in the seat. Passengers pay to use those facilities. The crew does not get priority, regardless of who they are.

 

[Yerry]

"Both sides of the issue", my patootie!

The woman was blind. Why should she move, period? It's a seat for "those with disabilities", for cripe's sake! There's no allowance here for Amtrak employees here to make up bogus excuses to take the blame off "one of their own". If it was SO INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT for the passenger to "be nice" and "handle things properly", why didn't the PAID EMPLOYEE do the same? I mean, just exactly how hard is it for someone who has had training, passed signal system exams and has to be approved to work on that railroad line to ALSO notice seeing eye dog and a white cane? Probably a LOT EASIER than it would take that woman to notice paperwork stacked on the table.

Come on, this is the ultimate open-and-shut, perfect-victim issue. That conductor, as well as Amtrak, should be shaking in their boots that they don't get sued, if it hasn't happened already. Between police and passenger observations, I can even see where the person calling and asking for teh passenger to be removed could be arrested for filing a false police report-- and getting sued for that too. And no Amtrak union will save anyone there if that should happen.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

AMEN!!!! 'the sign by the seat that said "Reserved for passengers with disabilities"' This is no different from a non-handicapped person parking in a "handicap only" parking space. Even if the conductor had been sitting at that table beforehand, that sign means that if the lady with a cane and guide dog shows up there and wants to sit there, the conductor, and any other non-handicapped person, MOVES!!! That conductor needs a swift kick in the keister and a brain transplant. What amazed me in this discussion was that anyone could even begin to argue otherwise.

 

[tp49]

Out of everyone on the forums here, I probably ride the Capitol Corridor the most. As JC said the only way she could hava wound up on the lower level is if she started on the lower level of another car on the train, made her way to the lounge car and went downstairs from there. If the car in question was one of those with the counter on the upper level then the doors are not opened during station stops. Generally the only people on the lower level of that car are the crew, unless the train is extremely crowded (think day before Thanksgiving).

Something about the story does not sound right, but if it is true then that crew member should be punished plain and simple.

 

[Sam Damon]

Out of everyone on the forums here, I probably ride the Capitol Corridor the most.  As JC said the only way she could hava wound up on the lower level is if she started on the lower level of another car on the train, made her way to the lounge car and went downstairs from there.  If the car in question was one of those with the counter on the upper level then the doors are not opened during station stops.  Generally the only people on the lower level of that car are the crew, unless the train is extremely crowded (think day before Thanksgiving).
Something about the story does not sound right, but if it is true then that crew member should be punished plain and simple.

Two words: She's blind.

Amtrak's ADA record is not exactly stellar, and the courts do not smile on outfits violating the ADA laws in the USA. IIRC, Amtrak had to negotiate a settlement with some disabled Public Interest Group concerning access for physically challenged pax.

 

[Yerry]

What's next-- beating up Subway employees?