question about cardinal

[cincin]

Has Amtrak switched to Viewliners on the Cardinal this year? I thought it had Superliners when I priced a trip for this summer a couple of months ago. I see where the times have changed, but I think I also see where the type of car has changed too. If so, isn't this bad? I thought the deluxe Superliners were better than the standard Viewliners..... :huh:

 

[AlanB]

Nope the Cardinal has been all single level, with Viewliner sleepers for just about 1 year now. I have not heard of any plans to return the Cardinal to Superliner equipment, although I expect that eventually it will happen perhaps by next year.

As for Viewliners VS. Superliners, I personally prefer the Viewliner cars. They are newer and more modern, with vastly superior windows. Each room gets a double row of windows, so even the upper bunk has a window.

The deluxe rooms are essentially the same between Superliner and Viewliner sleepers. Although the deluxe Viewliner room does have a little more space, plus it comes with a TV screen. It's the standard rooms were there is a bigger difference. The standard room on a Viewliner is a little roomier than a Superliner room. Additionally the standard room on a Viewliner has a toilet and sink, along with a cubbyhole for a suitcase, plus again the TV screen.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Has Amtrak switched to Viewliners on the Cardinal this year? I thought it had Superliners when I priced a trip for this summer a couple of months ago. I see where the times have changed, but I think I also see where the type of car has changed too. If so, isn't this bad? I thought the deluxe Superliners were better than the standard Viewliners..... :huh:

cincin,

Amtrak had two serious derailments last year, which exhausted its supply of Superliner equipment. Since then they have been operating at the bare minimum. The Cardinal had to be temporarily re-equipped with single level equipment (Amfleet coaches and cafe, and Viewliner sleeper) until there are enough Superliners repaired to allow the Cardinal to be upgraded. To do this, Amtrak had to also temporarily remove a sleeper and a diner from one of the three New York-Florida trains.

 

[PRR 60]

In my opinion, Superliner equipped trains are superior to the single level trains because of the better design and quality of the Superliner dining car, the lounge car, and coaches. The Superliner train is a much better and more passenger pleasing total facility than its single-level counterpart of Amfleet, Heritage, and Viewliner equipment.

Just considering the sleeping accommodations, however, the Viewliner is not a bad car (with one notable exception). From the standpoint of the Deluxe Bedroom, I prefer the Viewliner room to the Superliner room. Two areas stand out. First, the ceiling height in the Viewliner room is greater than that of the two-level Superliner. This permits the Viewliner upper berth to have much more headroom than its Superliner counterpart (which has very little headroom). The second advantage is the small upper window of the Viewliner. For the first time, the upper berth occupant actually has a view. Combine the greater headroom with the window affording a connection to the outside world, and IMHO, the Viewliner is a more comfortable car for upper berth passengers (usually me) than the Superliner.

The same ceiling height and window comments apply to the Viewliner Standard Bedroom as well, but I feel the Standard Bedroom design is seriously flawed for two person travel by the unenclosed toilet. For a single traveler, the Viewliner Standard Bedroom is similar to the old Roomette and is just fine, but for two persons this charming design element makes the use of the room and the facilities a logistical nightmare. I greatly prefer the down the hall common facilities of the Superliner Standard and Family Bedrooms to this rather indiscreet arrangement. My wife and I have been married for nearly 32 years, and we are as close as two people can be, but there’s close and then there’s too close. An open toilet in the bedroom is way, way too close. So if either person of a party of two needs a moment alone, the other person must take a hike. To quote George Costanza on Seinfeld, sometimes you need a buffer zone.

 

[Amfleet]

In my opinion, Superliner equipped trains are superior to the single level trains because of the better design and quality of the Superliner dining car, the lounge car, and coaches. The Superliner train is a much better and more passenger pleasing total facility than its single-level counterpart of Amfleet, Heritage, and Viewliner equipment.

As much as I love the double window concept in a Viewliner, the Superliners win out. The ride is noticably smoother (especially on the upper level), the Superliner Dining Cars do seem to turn out a better meal, and the Sightseer Lounge is a geat place to hang out. The Amfleet Lounge is great for corridor travel, but not for long-distances. The Superliners are also seem much more efficent and a more calm place to work for the crew.

 

[AlanB]

In my opinion, Superliner equipped trains are superior to the single level trains because of the better design and quality of the Superliner dining car, the lounge car, and coaches.  The Superliner train is a much better and more passenger pleasing total facility than its single-level counterpart of Amfleet, Heritage, and Viewliner equipment.

PRR,

That's something that I would whole-heartedly agree with. I was merely comparing the Sleepers and not the overall train. There is no doubt in my mind that the Superliner Sightseer Lounges and Diners are vastly superior to any single level counterpart in the fleet.

Just considering the sleeping accommodations, however, the Viewliner is not a bad car (with one notable exception).  From the standpoint of the Deluxe Bedroom, I prefer the Viewliner room to the Superliner room.  Two areas stand out.  First, the ceiling height in the Viewliner room is greater than that of the two-level Superliner.  This permits the Viewliner upper berth to have much more headroom than its Superliner counterpart (which has very little headroom).  The second advantage is the small upper window of the Viewliner.  For the first time, the upper berth occupant actually has a view.  Combine the greater headroom with the window affording a connection to the outside world, and IMHO, the Viewliner is a more comfortable car for upper berth passengers (usually me) than the Superliner.

That extra headroom and window are in my mind two of the best things about a Viewliner sleeper. Even when I'm traveling solo, which is most of the time, I'll sleep on the upper bunk in a standard room since it has a window. This allows me to leave the seats up at night and my computer in the spare seat.

The same ceiling height and window comments apply to the Viewliner Standard Bedroom as well, but I feel the Standard Bedroom design is seriously flawed for two person travel by the unenclosed toilet.  For a single traveler, the Viewliner Standard Bedroom is similar to the old Roomette and is just fine, but for two persons this charming design element makes the use of the room and the facilities a logistical nightmare.  I greatly prefer the down the hall common facilities of the Superliner Standard and Family Bedrooms to this rather indiscreet arrangement.  My wife and I have been married for nearly 32 years, and we are as close as two people can be, but there’s close and then there’s too close.  An open toilet in the bedroom is way, way too close.  So if either person of a party of two needs a moment alone, the other person must take a hike.  To quote George Costanza on Seinfeld, sometimes you need a buffer zone.

That bathroom has been an often-discussed problem for a while. There is no doubt that it is a big problem for two people traveling together, especially since there is no other bathroom available to them in the car. However for someone like me who often travels alone, it's a great feature.

That bathroom also however provides two other advantages over the Superliner standard bedroom. One the cutaway in the beds for the toilet gives a person far more room to climb up into the upper level bunk. The other advantage is of course, that the toilet and sink sill provide a built in ladder, making it much easier to climb into the upper level bunk.

 

[carknocker51]

I will be traveling on the lake/shore...the Acela/express...& the Cardinal next month & after reading some of the comments here I upgraded on the lake/shore & Cardinal portion's of my trip.My trip was already 50% off with Veterans advantage fare's,so the x-tra 100.00$ for a standard room on the Lake/shore & the extra 67.60$ for a standard room on the Cardinal didn"t hurt to bad.I also droped from 1st class on the Acela/express to business class & saved almost 100.00$ there. All this & I still get to use the 1st class lounges in New York & Washington & get free meals on board!I think I COULD GET USE TO THIS WAY TO TRAVEL ON VACATION'S.Thanks for all your great advice here & keep up the good work...I'm looking forward to this one now

 

[AlanB]

Carknocker,

Sounds like a nice trip. While I understand your dropping the First Class to save a few dollars, it is a rather unique experience. However you will still get to experience the Acela Express, even if you don't get free food while on this train.

Do you know where to find the Club Acela lounges? Or would you like me to post directions?

 

[carknocker51]

yes...please tell me where the lounges are....what are the benny's of 1st class on the Acela x-press.....I mite reconsider 1st class for that section of travel....after all.... I 'm on vacation then B)

 

[carknocker51]

by the way....I did ride the Acela express last fall [fr. Wash. to Balt.]while on a trip with the wife.It was a short run,to get the feel of it & I had time no time for a longer trip.I went alone & it was a Very Nice ride!

 

[AlanB]

Carknocker,

Ok, here are the directions to the various lounges. Since you didn’t indicate where you were starting from, I’m also going to enclose the directions to Chicago’s Metropolitan lounge just in case.

Your sleeper tickets qualify you as a First Class passenger on Amtrak. As a first class passenger you are entitled to utilize Amtrak's first class lounges in NY, DC, and Chicago. These lounges are a nice quiet refuge in the often-bustling train station. They have nice plush chairs, conference rooms, computer terminals, newspapers, TV's, free soft drinks, juices, coffee, tea and clean safe bathrooms. They also allow you to board your train before the rest of the masses.

In Chicago the lounge is called the "Metropolitan Lounge". It is located on the lower level of Union Station, which is also the track level. If you are standing in front of and facing the Amtrak ticket windows, then the Amtrak waiting area is to your left. When you enter the main Amtrak waiting area through a sliding glass door, just walk forward and slightly to the left. There should be another sliding glass door along with a sign noting the lounge.

Just show your tickets to one of the attendants at the counter inside. They will give you a pass that will allow you to come and go, as you like until your trains departure. So you can either just relax in the lounge or you can wander about the station. There are several places within the station to buy lunch, if you like. Note: The Chicago lounge can be very busy and it sometimes can be hard to get a seat, but you still get the free stuff and priority boarding. For this reason they will make you leave your carry-on bags in the luggage room inside the lounge, you cannot take them to your seat due to the crowded nature of the lounge.

I will also mention that there is a locked luggage area for first class passengers. You can find this room by making the first right after you walk through the first set of sliding glass doors that I mentioned above. Walk down a short hall towards the south waiting area and again make the first right available. This is where I usually leave my bags when I go through Chicago, as opposed to the unlocked side room in the actual lounge. I’ve never heard of any bags being stolen from the unlocked room, but there have been a few cases of people grabbing the wrong bag by accident. Also don't leave any important medicines in your luggage while in Chicago, keep it with you.

If you choose that latter alternative to store any carryon luggage, when they make the first call for those people who need redcaps, you should go get your bags out of the locked room. Then you can return to the lounge and board with the rest of the passengers, or you can allow the redcap to escort you and carry your bag to the train, although that will make your wallet a little lighter.

In NY and DC the lounges are called “Club Acela”. The lounge in NY can be found to the far left of the NJ Transit ticket windows as you face them. Walk past the West Gate for tracks 7 & 8 on the left side of the escalator and you will see a sign on the corner of the wall. There is a doorbell to the left of two gold doors. Ring the bell and wait for the click to open the door. Note: In NY there is no pre-boarding ahead of the regular passengers, but they usually do announce your train in the lounge before they announce it in the main station. This means if you don’t dilly-dally, you can generally be near the head of the line at the escalator.

In DC the Club Acela Lounge is located behind the information kiosk, which is in the center of the waiting areas between gates D & E. There are two large wooden doors there, ring the bell to the right of the door and the attendant will let you in. Show your tickets and you’re in. They will escort you to your train when it’s time.

As for First Class vs. Business Class, here are the big differences. FC has 2 & 1 seating as opposed to the normal 2 & 2 seating. This allows for wider, more roomier chairs than you would find in either coach or business class on any Amtrak train. Next is the food, in BC its typical café food and you get to pay for it. In FC you get hot meals served to you at your seat. While it may not be the same quality as you might find at the Ritz, it’s definitely better than any airline food I’ve ever had.

There are typically 3 main choices, along with a lighter fare for those who may not be overly hungry. All meals come with free beverages, and during lunch and dinner times that includes alcohol. They offer wine, beer, and a selection of hard liquor. There is no charge for the liquor and it’s basically all you can drink, unless of course they run out of what you’re drinking.

Finally, although minor, you also get a free newspaper and free headphones to use with the onboard audio/news system. You can even take the headphones home as a souvenir, if you like as they do say Acela on the sides.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions, or if something is not clear.

 

[Steve Relei]

As far as single-level car vs. Superliner car is concerned, I'm not sure that Superliner cars are that much superior or that single-level cars don't have attractions of their own.

The Talgo trains here in the Pacific Northwest have proven to be very popular with the traveling public. These trains travel between Vancouver, BC, Seattle, WA, Portland, OR, and Eugene(OR). The Coast Starlight (Seattle-Portland-L.A.) and Empire Builder (Seattle/Portland-Spokane(WA)to Chicago) both continue to use Superliner equipment.

The Superliners are two storied and have better views of the passing countryside, whereas the Talgos have one level and viewing can be limited (such as looking over tall freight cars or tall embankments). However, other than that, I can see just fine. The Talgos are allowed to go a bit faster than the Superliners (on railroad speed limit signs there are often three speeds listed: T for Talgo, P for Passenger, F for freight. On the Talgo, you can feel the movement and speed of the train better than on the Superliner. I like the wrap-around windows of the Superliner lounges, which the Talgos don't have (too bad some could not be designed with them). The Superliners have more legroom than the Talgos, but I have my choice of double-seating on one side or single seating on the other side.

The two types of trains are just different. I like them both. I like watching them both. The Talgos are pretty snazzy-looking trains. So are the Superliners. Actually, it is nice having this variety (remember when people said that all Amtrak trains looked a like?).

I must say though, I still prefer the old vista dome cars to the Superliner lounges. I got to ride them quite a bit through Montana and other places. There's nothing like sitting above the engineer--the train, supposedly, and being able to watch the scenery go by all around you--front (including the locomotives), back, sides. On the Superliners, you can see out only on the sides. However, the front dome windows, during the Amtrak era, were often too dirty to get clear views, even after washing (they used to wash the dome windows during the stop as Livingston), perhaps from years of dirt and engine exhaust accumilation. Still, they were nice. I got to ride in a Union Pacific dome car behind the Challenger steam locomotive a number of years ago. That was fun too.

 

[Chatter163]

Being an east coaster, I prefer the Viewliners, though I have ridden extensively on the Superliner, as well. When I travel alone, I take a standard sleeper, and like Alan B, I sleep in the top bunk, and appreciate the toilet. When my wife is with me, we take the deluxe, which she likes because of the upper window and the headroom. She likes to be able to sit up in bed.

It was stated that the viewliner has more room. That is true, naturally, when one is peaking vertically. However, hortizontally that is not entirely true. The width of both VL and SL is almost the same, but the SL does have about 18" more width. When you sit in the collapsible chair on a VL, the bathroom door can only open partway--it does open enough for the passenger to get in and out of the bathroom, but it does not open all the way, as the chair blocks the door from doing so. OTOH, the SL bathroom door can swing open completely, without hitting the chair.

However, I still prefer the headroom and TV of the Viewliner, to say nothing of the bathroom in the standard!

 

[bbrown3]

I will be taking the cardinal next month and did not know about the change in equipment. Are they using the Amfleet II coaches or the I's? Also does anyone know what kind of diner they will be using? Thanks

 

[AlanB]

You should see Amfleet II coaches on the Cardinal. Amfleet I's are very rarely used on a long distance train.

The diner will be a Heritage diner. Depending on the luck of the draw you may get a Timoinsa rebuild or an unrebuilt diner, but either way it will still be a single level Heritage dining car.

 

[P40Power]

Amfleet I coaches, though they usually dont show up on long distance trains often, were very frequently found on the Lake Shore Limited's boston section during the winter for whatever reasons. Horizons also showed up from time to time but in most cases there would be an Amfleet I coach substituting for the Viewliner (Wow I would be SOOO dissapointed if I was expecting a deluxe bedroom ride in a Viewliner and instead got a Amfleet I coach!), 2 Amfleet IIs (Or sometimes 1 Amfleet II and 1 Amfleet 1 or horizon coach) and an Amfleet I cafe (a whole spectrum of different Amfleet I food service cars were used. Luckly now the consist for the Boston section is pretty much back to its old self execpt for the Amfleet 1 cafes still used.

 

[tubaallen]

In my opinion, Superliner equipped trains are superior to the single level trains because of the better design and quality of the Superliner dining car, the lounge car, and coaches. The Superliner train is a much better and more passenger pleasing total facility than its single-level counterpart of Amfleet, Heritage, and Viewliner equipment.

As much as I love the double window concept in a Viewliner, the Superliners win out. The ride is noticably smoother (especially on the upper level), the Superliner Dining Cars do seem to turn out a better meal, and the Sightseer Lounge is a geat place to hang out. The Amfleet Lounge is great for corridor travel, but not for long-distances. The Superliners are also seem much more efficent and a more calm place to work for the crew.

Agreed. I don't know exactly why, but I am much more comfortable in the Superliners, especially as a crew member. And I most certainly agree that the superliner offers a smoother and quieter ride.

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

As much as I love the double window concept in a Viewliner, the Superliners win out. The ride is noticably smoother (especially on the upper level), the Superliner Dining Cars do seem to turn out a better meal, and the Sightseer Lounge is a geat place to hang out. The Amfleet Lounge is great for corridor travel, but not for long-distances. The Superliners are also seem much more efficent and a more calm place to work for the crew.

Agreed. I don't know exactly why, but I am much more comfortable in the Superliners, especially as a crew member. And I most certainly agree that the superliner offers a smoother and quieter ride.

This is just a rough guess, but I would probably say the smoother ride is due to the heavier weight of the Superliners versus the single-level cars. A heavier car takes a stronger jolt to move than a lighter car. Plus, heavier cars probably have better suspension systems.

 

[tubaallen]

I would say that probably makes sense. However, you know what was surprising to me? When I took my ride up in the cab last summer, I thought for sure it would be smooth as heck, even when the rest of the train was bouncin around for that reason. I was wrong. It seems very different. The engineer I was riding with was saying that it seems that the cars just react differently. Sometimes he gets jostled around a lot, and he'll ask the conductors if they noticed anything, and they say it's been smooth. And sometimes the opposite occurs too. I'm not sure how that works.

 

[P40Power]

I think that the Passenger cars longer wheelbase is what would make them ride better then the shorter wheelbase locomotives. When I took my trip last fall we were in the first car of the train and you could see the second genesis through the front door window and while the car was riding very smoothly and not bouncing the Genesis was hopping all over the place. The ride of the train is weird, when its smooth it feels like your floating over the ground with only a slight hopping sensation (It feels alot like a dirt bike with a blown shock to me), the whole riding sensation is just another part of the magic of takin a train!

 

[tubaallen]

Agreed!!!