Platform length limitations, Northeast Corridor

[Abzweig]

Hello everyone,

I am curious to know what the limiting platform length is on the Northeast Corridor. The original Acela is only 202 m long (664 feet). The Avelia has more carriages, but they are shorter, and the length is 213 m (699 feet). In both cases, this includes the length of the two power cars.

For comparison, the ICE 1 (also with two power cars, and older than the Acela) is 358 m long. At least some tilting trains with seating in all the carriages, like the UK Class 390, are longer than the Acela (including the power cars).

Given the popularity of the Acela and the high rates Amtrak is able to charge, it seems obvious that a longer train would save costs per passenger. I know that Acela can only use high platforms. Which platform(s) are limiting the length so greatly? New York Penn, my home station, handles much longer trains from high platforms routinely. And I have seen photos of some 12 car + long-distance trains on the Corridor, presumably using the same platforms.

Thanks for any data.

 

[jis]

The length of Acela trainsets are not determined by any platform length considerations Almost all stations where Acelas stop can easily accommodate 12 85' cars and most can handle 14. At present, if one is to believe the RFQ that was used to place the order for Acela 21s the reason for the length of these sets is that they have to fit in the available yard and maintenance building space that is available at Ivy City, Sunnyside and Southampton Street facilities dedicated to Acelas.

 

[Abzweig]

Thanks jis.

I realize that the platform lengths of the open-air stations can be estimated with the Google Earth ruler. I somehow had thought that Wilmington was short, probably because it's between two tight curves, but you're right, it is not.

The length of Acela trainsets are not determined by any platform length considerations All stations where Acelas stop can easily accommodate 12 85' cars and most can handle 14. At present, if one is to believe the RFQ that was used to place the order for Acela 21s the reasin for the length of these sets is that they have to fit in the avaiable yard and maintenance building space that is available at Ivy City, Sunnyside and Southampton Street facilities dedicated to Acelas.

That makes sense, that the limit is based on the maintenance facilities and not the platforms.

The fares commanded by Acelas is managed by (a) limiting supply (i.e. using short enough trains to keep supply lower than demand and (b) artificially running the Regionals significantly slower than what they are capable of. Given the limitations of top speed that is inherent in the nature of the right of way, such marketing and price management tricks help increase overall revenues.

I thought that, at least pre-pandemic, the proposal was to use the extra new sets to run half-hourly New York - Washington and hourly New York - Boston. That would be a substantial supply increase over the current schedule, which doesn't seem to me like they are trying to keep supply very low to charge higher fares.

As for the speed of the Regionals, given that many still arrive late, I think that the schedule is reasonable based on the amount of interfering traffic. Certainly you could go faster with the same equipment and a clear route, but that just isn't realistic.

 

[jis]

I thought that, at least pre-pandemic, the proposal was to use the extra new sets to run half-hourly New York - Washington and hourly New York - Boston. That would be a substantial supply increase over the current schedule, which doesn't seem to me like they are trying to keep supply very low to charge higher fares.

As for the speed of the Regionals, given that many still arrive late, I think that the schedule is reasonable based on the amount of interfering traffic. Certainly you could go faster with the same equipment and a clear route, but that just isn't realistic.

This part of the discussion has been moved to this other thread since this has nothing to do with Platform Lengths.:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/transportation-service-and-product-differentiation.85473/

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Thanks jis.

I realize that the platform lengths of the open-air stations can be estimated with the Google Earth ruler. I somehow had thought that Wilmington was short, probably because it's between two tight curves, but you're right, it is not.


That makes sense, that the limit is based on the maintenance facilities and not the platforms.

I thought that, at least pre-pandemic, the proposal was to use the extra new sets to run half-hourly New York - Washington and hourly New York - Boston. That would be a substantial supply increase over the current schedule, which doesn't seem to me like they are trying to keep supply very low to charge higher fares.

As for the speed of the Regionals, given that many still arrive late, I think that the schedule is reasonable based on the amount of interfering traffic. Certainly you could go faster with the same equipment and a clear route, but that just isn't realistic.

Currently the # of trains on the NEC is, at least somewhat, based on the # of engineers and conductors who are qualified to run the trains. There is a current class of engineers going through certification right now, so hopefully some more time slots will be filled soon,

 

[blueman271]

Was New London the only place the Acela stopped with short platforms?

 

[jis]

Was New London the only place the Acela stopped with short platforms?

New London has always been a special case due to the extremely awkward location of the station. Yup, it has a short platform (part of it on a curve) and even shorter high level platform. IIRC Acelas (if they stop there) open only designated doors there. It is not served by too many Acelas in general IIRC.

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A large number of posts on Transit, Urbanism and real estate development supporting Transit have been moved to a new thread under Rail Advocacy Forum, since those posts had nothing to do with platform length. Please continue that discussion in this new thread.

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...-estate-development-supporting-transit.85515/
Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.