CCC on the Empire Builder

[Ispolkom]

On 5/26 I took the Empire Builder from Chicago to Minot. It wasn't a noteworthy trip except that it was the first time I've seen a Cross Country Cafe on the Empire Builder.

In place of the Sightseer Lounge.

I don't like the CCC used as a diner, like on the Capitol Limited, but it really doesn't work as a lounge car. There's much less room and many of the seats face inward, and, of course, the windows are smaller.

I was glad to see a proper Sightseer on train #8 on Saturday.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

On 5/26 I took the Empire Builder from Chicago to Minot. It wasn't a noteworthy trip except that it was the first time I've seen a Cross Country Cafe on the Empire Builder.
In place of the Sightseer Lounge.

I don't like the CCC used as a diner, like on the Capitol Limited, but it really doesn't work as a lounge car. There's much less room and many of the seats face inward, and, of course, the windows are smaller.

I was glad to see a proper Sightseer on train #8 on Saturday.

Hmmm.... you brought up an interesting point. I have read it here before that when they get more superliner diners that the CCC's will go on the builder to help capacity, but would they also run a SSL meaning there was 3 service cars on the one train?

At any rate I am yet to get into a CCC (29 days till I ride the CL) but I don't think it would make a great replacement for a SSL.

 

[AlanB]

Hmmm.... you brought up an interesting point. I have read it here before that when they get more superliner diners that the CCC's will go on the builder to help capacity, but would they also run a SSL meaning there was 3 service cars on the one train?

AFAIK, that is the plan, to run 3 service cars on the EB. The less successful, in terms of ridership and revenue, Coast Starlight already has 3 service cars. And for a much shorter journey. No reason that the EB can't.

And with the planned expansion of the train's carrying capacity, ie. adding more sleepers, it's probably necessary.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Hmmm.... you brought up an interesting point. I have read it here before that when they get more superliner diners that the CCC's will go on the builder to help capacity, but would they also run a SSL meaning there was 3 service cars on the one train?

AFAIK, that is the plan, to run 3 service cars on the EB. The less successful, in terms of ridership and revenue, Coast Starlight already has 3 service cars. And for a much shorter journey. No reason that the EB can't.

And with the planned expansion of the train's carrying capacity, ie. adding more sleepers, it's probably necessary.

Good point. The CS has the PPC (sometimes) and its only 30 hours. So the CCC will operate as an overflow diner?

 

[AlanB]

Hmmm.... you brought up an interesting point. I have read it here before that when they get more superliner diners that the CCC's will go on the builder to help capacity, but would they also run a SSL meaning there was 3 service cars on the one train?

AFAIK, that is the plan, to run 3 service cars on the EB. The less successful, in terms of ridership and revenue, Coast Starlight already has 3 service cars. And for a much shorter journey. No reason that the EB can't.

And with the planned expansion of the train's carrying capacity, ie. adding more sleepers, it's probably necessary.

Good point. The CS has the PPC (sometimes) and its only 30 hours. So the CCC will operate as an overflow diner?

Well if they add sleepers to the EB, as is being talked about, it would have to operate as an overflow diner CHI-SPK. West of SPK, it would operate in it's dual role of cafe car & dining car.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Hmmm.... you brought up an interesting point. I have read it here before that when they get more superliner diners that the CCC's will go on the builder to help capacity, but would they also run a SSL meaning there was 3 service cars on the one train?

AFAIK, that is the plan, to run 3 service cars on the EB. The less successful, in terms of ridership and revenue, Coast Starlight already has 3 service cars. And for a much shorter journey. No reason that the EB can't.

And with the planned expansion of the train's carrying capacity, ie. adding more sleepers, it's probably necessary.

Good point. The CS has the PPC (sometimes) and its only 30 hours. So the CCC will operate as an overflow diner?

Well if they add sleepers to the EB, as is being talked about, it would have to operate as an overflow diner CHI-SPK. West of SPK, it would operate in it's dual role of cafe car & dining car.

Oh okay so the same deal like on the LSL where they will have the diner lite to Boston. Now it makes sense.

Thanks

 

[catblue]

I was looking forward to the Sightseers Lounge on the EB for my upcoming trip since we are traveling with several other people. Sure hope it is on that train.

Just how many cars is the trains limit anyway?

 

[AlanB]

Just how many cars is the trains limit anyway?

Usually the host RR's like to keep Amtrak under 30 cars.

Of course there are other limits that would keep trains even shorter than that, like how much hotel power can be supplied to the cars.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Just how many cars is the trains limit anyway?

Usually the host RR's like to keep Amtrak under 30 cars.

Of course there are other limits that would keep trains even shorter than that, like how much hotel power can be supplied to the cars.

30 cars is quite a lot. Aside from the AT I don't to many trains are close!

 

[Ispolkom]

I was looking forward to the Sightseers Lounge on the EB for my upcoming trip since we are traveling with several other people. Sure hope it is on that train.Just how many cars is the trains limit anyway?

I wouldn't worry about the Sightseer Lounge. I take the Empire Builder several times a year, and this is the first time it's ever happened to me. I imagine that maintenance left them one lounge car short that day.

 

[catblue]

Thanks! Good to know I should not be worried.

 

[Kramerica]

So what would the new consist order be for an EB with a diner, SSL, and CCC? I presume that the CCC would go to Portland and the SSL and diner to Seattle?

P42, P42, P42, baggage, trans-dorm, sleeper, sleeper, diner, lounge, coaches, [split], coaches, CCC, and Portland sleeper

Would the sleeper passengers have a choice of going to the diner or CCC? Or would they require the Portland sleeper to go to the diner, which would be sleeper-only, and the CCC would be for coach only? Will some passengers be confused as to which diner to go to?

 

[Ispolkom]

Would the sleeper passengers have a choice of going to the diner or CCC? Or would they require the Portland sleeper to go to the diner, which would be sleeper-only, and the CCC would be for coach only? Will some passengers be confused as to which diner to go to?

Oh, don't worry, some passengers will be confused where to go. I was impressed by how often sleeping car passengers got lost on the Capitol Limited last week.

 

[Bierboy]

So what would the new consist order be for an EB with a diner, SSL, and CCC? I presume that the CCC would go to Portland and the SSL and diner to Seattle?
P42, P42, P42, baggage, trans-dorm, sleeper, sleeper, diner, lounge, coaches, [split], coaches, CCC, and Portland sleeper

Would the sleeper passengers have a choice of going to the diner or CCC? Or would they require the Portland sleeper to go to the diner, which would be sleeper-only, and the CCC would be for coach only? Will some passengers be confused as to which diner to go to?

Our consist westbound last week was --

Loco, loco, baggage, trans-dorm, sleeper, sleeper, diner, coach, coach, SS lounge, Portland coach, Portland sleeper, Portland sleeper.

Not sure where the CCC would go...probably after the Portland coach(s) and in front of the Portland sleepers.

Eastbound this past weekend, the consist was loco, loco, baggage, trans-dorm, sleeper, sleeper, diner, coach, coach, SS lounge, Portland sleeper, Portland coach, Portland coach, then three private cars.

 

[Rail Freak]

Would the sleeper passengers have a choice of going to the diner or CCC? Or would they require the Portland sleeper to go to the diner, which would be sleeper-only, and the CCC would be for coach only? Will some passengers be confused as to which diner to go to?

Oh, don't worry, some passengers will be confused where to go. I was impressed by how often sleeping car passengers got lost on the Capitol Limited last week.

Funny you should mention that! My 1st train trip, last year, was a x-country RT from Tampa. I don't remember if it was the CL,EB,CS,CZ or all of them, but I got turned around a few times. Might be how the sleepers were hooked up to the consist. Does that make any sense??? B)

 

[Bierboy]

Would the sleeper passengers have a choice of going to the diner or CCC? Or would they require the Portland sleeper to go to the diner, which would be sleeper-only, and the CCC would be for coach only? Will some passengers be confused as to which diner to go to?

Oh, don't worry, some passengers will be confused where to go. I was impressed by how often sleeping car passengers got lost on the Capitol Limited last week.

Funny you should mention that! My 1st train trip, last year, was a x-country RT from Tampa. I don't remember if it was the CL,EB,CS,CZ or all of them, but I got turned around a few times. Might be how the sleepers were hooked up to the consist. Does that make any sense??? B)

Yes, it does! I got turned around yesterday on the EB towards the end of the trip. There were a lot of empty roomettes, and I wanted to sit in one awhile to see how comfortable it would be for one person (as I am planning a solo trip back to Montana next year). When I got up to leave, I got turned around. I think it was because our sleeper had the bedrooms at one end, and the adjoining sleeper had them opposite! I forgot which I was in!

 

[Rail Freak]

Would the sleeper passengers have a choice of going to the diner or CCC? Or would they require the Portland sleeper to go to the diner, which would be sleeper-only, and the CCC would be for coach only? Will some passengers be confused as to which diner to go to?

Oh, don't worry, some passengers will be confused where to go. I was impressed by how often sleeping car passengers got lost on the Capitol Limited last week.

Funny you should mention that! My 1st train trip, last year, was a x-country RT from Tampa. I don't remember if it was the CL,EB,CS,CZ or all of them, but I got turned around a few times. Might be how the sleepers were hooked up to the consist. Does that make any sense??? B)

Yes, it does! I got turned around yesterday on the EB towards the end of the trip. There were a lot of empty roomettes, and I wanted to sit in one awhile to see how comfortable it would be for one person (as I am planning a solo trip back to Montana next year). When I got up to leave, I got turned around. I think it was because our sleeper had the bedrooms at one end, and the adjoining sleeper had them opposite! I forgot which I was in!

This Southern Boy Knows One Thing, when the Conductor says "ALL ABOARD", get on the damn train & figure it out down the tracks :lol: !

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I was looking forward to the Sightseers Lounge on the EB for my upcoming trip since we are traveling with several other people. Sure hope it is on that train.Just how many cars is the trains limit anyway?

It most likely will be. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that what happened is, the trains normal Sightseer got bad-ordered. Since the EB is too long (time) and long (length) and needs 2 service cars so one can go to Portland and one to Seattle, they shoved a CCC on to take its place. I'd say this is rare as heck.

30 cars is quite a lot. Aside from the AT I don't to many trains are close!

It wasn't uncommon during the height of Monsieur Egomaniac Warrington's Mail and Express farce. Shall we recall Amtrak's Janesville Mail Special... er, I mean Kentucky Cardinal?

So what would the new consist order be for an EB with a diner, SSL, and CCC? I presume that the CCC would go to Portland and the SSL and diner to Seattle?
P42, P42, P42, baggage, trans-dorm, sleeper, sleeper, diner, lounge, coaches, [split], coaches, CCC, and Portland sleeper

Would the sleeper passengers have a choice of going to the diner or CCC? Or would they require the Portland sleeper to go to the diner, which would be sleeper-only, and the CCC would be for coach only? Will some passengers be confused as to which diner to go to?

From what I hear, its supposed to be something like: P42, P42, P42, P42, Baggage, Transdorm, Sleeper, Sleeper, Sleeper, Diner, coach, coach, coach, coach, Sightseer, Coach-bag, coach, coach, CCC, Sleeper, Sleeper.

 

[Longford]

Oh, don't worry, some passengers will be confused where to go. I was impressed by how often sleeping car passengers got lost on the Capitol Limited last week.

I was on the Empire Builder to Seattle 5/22-24, in a Roomette, and it became slightly annoying how many people didn't know where they were - which car was theirs - and how many walked into the wrong Roomette - including into mine. There were a lot of senior moments.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The Janesville special, of course, was the late, unlamented Lake Country Limited, a train which missed the big resort areas of southern Wisconsin, ran at an inconvenient schedule and hardly carried any passengers. The Amtrak Express fiasco wasted lots of money buying freight cars which could have been used to buy passenger-carrying equipment.

 

[EB_OBS]

The CCC that was on the Empire Builder was indeed placed there because of a bad ordered SSL. There wasn't another one available soon enough to replace it with another SSL.

As far as losing your way on the train, it's common and easy to do. It happens to me every now and then especially if I can't get a quick look out a window to see which direction the train is traveling.

 

[Tim]

With CCC being planned to be taken off the Capitol Limited and onto the Empire Builder, would it be a good idea to share consists between the Capitol and Southwest Chief again?

 

[GoldenSpike]

AlanB:

West of SPK, it would operate in it's dual role of cafe car & dining car.

A perfect scenario for the PDX segment since the diner is always with SEA:

Dinner e/b

Breakfast w/b

 

[AlanB]

AlanB:

West of SPK, it would operate in it's dual role of cafe car & dining car.

A perfect scenario for the PDX segment since the diner is always with SEA:

Dinner e/b

Breakfast w/b

Which is precisely why that is the plan. Someone at Amtrak saw a need and found the perfect way to satisfy that need.

 

[printman2000]

AlanB:

West of SPK, it would operate in it's dual role of cafe car & dining car.

A perfect scenario for the PDX segment since the diner is always with SEA:

Dinner e/b

Breakfast w/b

Which is precisely why that is the plan. Someone at Amtrak saw a need and found the perfect way to satisfy that need.

Wouldn't the sightseer also go with the Portland section? Would that then make the CCC only operate as a dining car and not the lounge since I would assume the sightseer lounge snack bar would be open.