Duplex Roomettes may provide more room?

[railiner]

I have made many trips between Denver and New York from the late '60's until the late '80's, and my favorite of all accommodations was the Single Slumbercoach room. I loved the price, the privacy, and the private facility, which by the way, you could use late at night without having to raise the bed as you would in a roomette. true, the bed was considerably narrower than the First Class room, but I was very comfortable in it. I would always try to get an "upper level" room, as it seemed more open and less claustrophobic. And the view out was a bit better, and it gave you a little more privacy if you kept your shades up at night to view activities during station stops.

The most common diagram was 24 single, 8 double rooms for an incredible 40 beds in a single level car. There were also a number of 16 single, 10 double room cars. These cars had what I call the 'choice' rooms. At some point in their career, four of the original double rooms had their upper bed removed, and were marketed as singles. So you got the same small bed as the duplex singles, but you had a huge amount of space otherwise, not to mention the much larger window.

 

[GAT]

Speaking of different train accomodations, has anyone seen the old I Love Lucy movie where they are going on a train? Looks like there is a long walking area (wide) and just bunk like beds with curtains. Has anyone ever been on a train like that or is it mainly a Hollywood type train?

Yes, what you saw was a real pre-WWII heavyweight Pullman sleeping car, I remember them well. The car had open opposed seating during the day, and upper and lower berths separated by heavy curtains at night for sleeping. The lower berths were formed by rolling the opposing seats down and flat to form a mattress. The upper berths were folded down from the ceiling wall area above the windows.

I think that is the car that (at least on the Canadian National Railroad) had a single drawing room at one end - Huge! Two windows and, if memory serves, two lower beds. My wife and I occupied one in 1967 from Vancouver to Toronto. CN sold the room at a bargain price because the cars were so old.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Yes, what you saw was a real pre-WWII heavyweight Pullman sleeping car, I remember them well. The car had open opposed seating during the day, and upper and lower berths separated by heavy curtains at night for sleeping. The lower berths were formed by rolling the opposing seats down and flat to form a mattress. The upper berths were folded down from the ceiling wall area above the windows.

Sections did not just exist in the heavyweight era. While they were not very popular, they still existed, including the rare 22-section cars, which had the highest capacity of all, into the lightweight era. Amtrak briefly had a few such cars on the roster, even.

 

[Bootman4U]

If you ever have the opportunity, try traveling on a service such as CityNightLine in Europe or on one of the Elipsos Trenhotel services. On the former there are double and triple accommodations (not couchettes) which are First Class (vs. the 6-bunk couchettes) which have the three bunks stacked and pull down; a private bathroom facility and a private shower. They are marvels of efficiency; there are also upper and lower level doubles offering the same..the ones above have double sets of windows kinda like in the Sightseer Lounge car with the toilet/shower; the lowers have no shower. The Trenhotels which run between France, Spain, Italy, and Switzerland offer the so-called "Grand Classe" doubles with toilet and separate shower and upper and lower beds similar to what is in a Superliner. Taking any of these lets you know what CAN be done on so-called "long distance" trains and I just wish we had these over here.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Yes, what you saw was a real pre-WWII heavyweight Pullman sleeping car, I remember them well. The car had open opposed seating during the day, and upper and lower berths separated by heavy curtains at night for sleeping. The lower berths were formed by rolling the opposing seats down and flat to form a mattress. The upper berths were folded down from the ceiling wall area above the windows.

Sections did not just exist in the heavyweight era. While they were not very popular, they still existed, including the rare 22-section cars, which had the highest capacity of all, into the lightweight era. Amtrak briefly had a few such cars on the roster, even.

Very true, GML,

It is true in a general way that the sections kind of faded away, sort of as roomettes came on the scene.For example, PRR, NYC, Santa FE, largely,but not completely, had all room sleepers.(from their streamlined cars, that is).

But that is a generality.

There were some lightweight streamlined sleepers with sections. We see this today in the Canadian equipment (built about 1954--55). There was also US equipment built with sections at about the same time.

I seem to recall reading that the reason some lines continued to order lightweight sleepers with sections was for routes which had a large military contingent. The idea that the government pays for the transporation of the troops and thus wanted the cheapest space available.

Incidentally I have heard it said that the lower berth was the best bed on rails ever. I cannot testify to that myself, just repeating what I have read.I think that it covers the entire space is what they were talking about.

 

[Bootman4U]

When I first took the "Canadian" the "sections were intact. Later, one was removed and the "shower cabin" was installed in its place and that makes the trip much nicer than it used to be.

The current section lower berth consists of those two rather wide facing seats being converted to a single bed with the heavy curtains (just like in thos 1930's and 1940's Hollywood movie depictions) and the lower also has THE window!! It is a much wider bed than the roomette pull-downs which are tapered at the foot (but of course you have a lot more privacy in the latter as well as the private "facility" (pain in the ass as it can be to get to in the middle of the night...).

And VIA is still running a few of the "drawing room" accommodations on each train..basically a triple with its own bathroom..and I am looking forward to finally being in one on my trip Toronto-Vancouver at the end of May.

 

[dlagrua]

Although we will never see them again, I read that the old Pullman section cars had very comfortable beds with thick matresses. I've seen sections only in movies and in books and they don't offer much privacy. All they did in those cars (which looked like coaches during the day) was to pull down a bed above and convert the chairs to a bed below at night. A curtain was your only privacy barrier. Those Pullman coaches were just large dormitories. They were the cheapest form of long distance train travel, and you had little privacy but at least you had a bed to sleep in at night. While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

 

[Tony]

Speaking of different train accomodations, has anyone seen the old I Love Lucy movie where they are going on a train? Looks like there is a long walking area (wide) and just bunk like beds with curtains. Has anyone ever been on a train like that or is it mainly a Hollywood type train?

Yea, I remember those episodes.

There is also another set of I Love Lucy episodes where they were again travelling on a train, but this time they have private bedrooms which appear larger than many hotel rooms I have stayed in.

 

[jis]

While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

Hey! The Superliner Is are Pullman Cars! That is they were built by Pullman Standard!

The last car built by Pullman Standard was the last Superliner of that order and today proudly wears the name "George M. Pullman".

Bombardier acquired the intellectual property pertaining to Superliners in 1987.

 

[Bootman4U]

"I've seen sections only in movies and in books and they don't offer much privacy."

Here's one small example of what that "privacy" can cost you (notice I didn't ask how much you actually need LOL);

On the "Canadian" for this coming summer the price of a lower berth in a section can run from $1031 CAD and up depending on departure date and that's for the entire trip Toronto-Vancouver (4 nights with 3 meals per day included); a so-called "cabin for one" (i.e., a roomette) ranges from $1320 CAD and up.

 

[zephyr17]

While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

Hey! The Superliner Is are Pullman Cars! That is they were built by Pullman Standard!

The last car built by Pullman Standard was the last Superliner of that order and today proudly wears the name "George M. Pullman".

Bombardier acquired the intellectual property pertaining to Superliners in 1987.

True, they are Pullmans in that sense. However, the term "Pullman" car really referred to a car operated by The Pullman Company, the operating company, that ceased operations on 12/31/1968, not cars built by Pullman-Standard car building company (otherwise there would be quite a few boxcars that were "Pullmans" ) . The Pullman Company operated cars by all manufactuers, so you could easily ride in a Budd-built "Pullman", and certainly did on the orignial CZ. The anti-trust ruling of 1947 broke Pullman up into the car building company and the operating company precisely because of Pullman, Inc's problems with, excess charges for, operating sleeping cars built by other manufacturers.

 

[zephyr17]

While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

Pullman cars of the streamline era had a wide variety of private accomodations, most more comfortable than their Amtrak descendents. Complete with doors and walls. Sections were not very popular then.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Yes, but then some railroads did not cooperate with the pullman comany thus those cars were technically called sleepers regardless of accomodations. Those railroads which did work with the pullman company, which was most of them, called those cars pullmans.

Thus the difference between a sleeper and a pullman was that of ownership, leasing, operating details. Google pullman company.

Many cars had in them both sections and private rooms as I have already noted.

Some examples:

6 sections 6 roomette 4 double bedrooms

4 sec 4 rmt 5 dbr 1 compartment

8 section 5 double bedroom

8 sections 1 comparment restaurant lounge

and on ad on and on and on it goes..........thus confining the word pullman to sections is not correct.

The relationship between the railroads and the pullman company cooperating meant that cars could be switched around all over the country as needed for special sections substitute equipment, added crowds, sports event extra trains, political conventions extra trains This mass supply of pullmans which could be run on lines to which they were not normally assigned.

Of course that is not needed today since Amtrak is one national company.(though exceeingly low on standby equipment)

The averae passenger did not care who owned what so, really, the words pullman and sleeper could be used interchanegably and the world would keep spinning.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

If you want your ideas jump started, get hold of the Classic Trains Pullman edition of a couple of years ago. In it they describe all the various sleeping accomodations provided by pullman (sections, roomettes, duplex roomettes, single bedrooms, double bedrooms of the "A,B,C,D" varieties, compartments, drawing rooms).

I do have the "old" GrandLuxe brochures, which I think covers at least some of that.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

But, I prefer the Amtrak Viewliner Roomettes to either of those two.

I prefer the Viewliner Roomettes, period.

 

[sunchaser]

But, I prefer the Amtrak Viewliner Roomettes to either of those two.

I prefer the Viewliner Roomettes, period.

I haven't ridden in the Viewliners, but I do like the Superliner bedrooms. But someday, just once, I would like to ride in one of these!

 

[railiner]

.
The current section lower berth consists of those two rather wide facing seats being converted to a single bed with the heavy curtains (just like in thos 1930's and 1940's Hollywood movie depictions) and the lower also has THE window!! It is a much wider bed than the roomette pull-downs which are tapered at the foot (but of course you have a lot more privacy in the latter as well as the private "facility" (pain in the ass as it can be to get to in the middle of the night...).

Some sleepers featured small (much smaller than viewliner) upper berth windows. Early roomettes, did not have the tapered ends to the beds. They had heavy zippered curtains you could close at night, so if you had to climb out of bed and raise it to access the toilet, you slid open your door and backed out into the aisle covered up by your curtain to give you the standing room to raise and relower your bed.

Although we will never see them again, I read that the old Pullman section cars had very comfortable beds with thick matresses. I've seen sections only in movies and in books and they don't offer much privacy. All they did in those cars (which looked like coaches during the day) was to pull down a bed above and convert the chairs to a bed below at night. A curtain was your only privacy barrier. Those Pullman coaches were just large dormitories. They were the cheapest form of long distance train travel, and you had little privacy but at least you had a bed to sleep in at night. While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

Pullman cars of the streamline era had a wide variety of private accomodations, most more comfortable than their Amtrak descendents. Complete with doors and walls. Sections were not very popular then.

I was going to say the same thing. The early sections were wide open, only private at night with curtains all around. The later streamliner cars had bulkheads between each section, and some even had walls on the aisles with sliding doors.

 

[zephyr17]

.
The current section lower berth consists of those two rather wide facing seats being converted to a single bed with the heavy curtains (just like in thos 1930's and 1940's Hollywood movie depictions) and the lower also has THE window!! It is a much wider bed than the roomette pull-downs which are tapered at the foot (but of course you have a lot more privacy in the latter as well as the private "facility" (pain in the ass as it can be to get to in the middle of the night...).

Some sleepers featured small (much smaller than viewliner) upper berth windows. Early roomettes, did not have the tapered ends to the beds. They had heavy zippered curtains you could close at night, so if you had to climb out of bed and raise it to access the toilet, you slid open your door and backed out into the aisle covered up by your curtain to give you the standing room to raise and relower your bed.

Although we will never see them again, I read that the old Pullman section cars had very comfortable beds with thick matresses. I've seen sections only in movies and in books and they don't offer much privacy. All they did in those cars (which looked like coaches during the day) was to pull down a bed above and convert the chairs to a bed below at night. A curtain was your only privacy barrier. Those Pullman coaches were just large dormitories. They were the cheapest form of long distance train travel, and you had little privacy but at least you had a bed to sleep in at night. While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

Pullman cars of the streamline era had a wide variety of private accomodations, most more comfortable than their Amtrak descendents. Complete with doors and walls. Sections were not very popular then.

I was going to say the same thing. The early sections were wide open, only private at night with curtains all around. The later streamliner cars had bulkheads between each section, and some even had walls on the aisles with sliding doors.

And also many, many other totally private room offerings other than sections (roomettes, double bedrooms, compartments, drawing rooms, master rooms, etc). Sections became increasingly rare as time went on, although they never disappeared entirely, they were not the primary form of Pullman travel long before Amtrak came along. Many "name" trains were advertised as "All Private Room".

Often they were kept because those traveling on government business could not get more than a lower berth, so some trains retained section accomdations specifically to serve that market. Other railroads just sold government workers a roomette at a lower berth rate.

 

[railiner]

.
The current section lower berth consists of those two rather wide facing seats being converted to a single bed with the heavy curtains (just like in thos 1930's and 1940's Hollywood movie depictions) and the lower also has THE window!! It is a much wider bed than the roomette pull-downs which are tapered at the foot (but of course you have a lot more privacy in the latter as well as the private "facility" (pain in the ass as it can be to get to in the middle of the night...).

Some sleepers featured small (much smaller than viewliner) upper berth windows. Early roomettes, did not have the tapered ends to the beds. They had heavy zippered curtains you could close at night, so if you had to climb out of bed and raise it to access the toilet, you slid open your door and backed out into the aisle covered up by your curtain to give you the standing room to raise and relower your bed.

Although we will never see them again, I read that the old Pullman section cars had very comfortable beds with thick matresses. I've seen sections only in movies and in books and they don't offer much privacy. All they did in those cars (which looked like coaches during the day) was to pull down a bed above and convert the chairs to a bed below at night. A curtain was your only privacy barrier. Those Pullman coaches were just large dormitories. They were the cheapest form of long distance train travel, and you had little privacy but at least you had a bed to sleep in at night. While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

While it was before my time and I never rode in a Pullman car, I much prefer the accomodations of today with the walls and door that can be locked.

Pullman cars of the streamline era had a wide variety of private accomodations, most more comfortable than their Amtrak descendents. Complete with doors and walls. Sections were not very popular then.

I was going to say the same thing. The early sections were wide open, only private at night with curtains all around. The later streamliner cars had bulkheads between each section, and some even had walls on the aisles with sliding doors.

And also many, many other totally private room offerings other than sections (roomettes, double bedrooms, compartments, drawing rooms, master rooms, etc). Sections became increasingly rare as time went on, although they never disappeared entirely, they were not the primary form of Pullman travel long before Amtrak came along. Many "name" trains were advertised as "All Private Room".

Often they were kept because those traveling on government business could not get more than a lower berth, so some trains retained section accomdations specifically to serve that market. Other railroads just sold government workers a roomette at a lower berth rate.

Yes, there is very thin line between a late model section with its aisle partition and sliding door, to say a Superliner roomette. The big difference is the fact that the upper and lower berths in the sections could be sold to separate individuals. The Superliner room, (and all private rooms on Amtrak) is only sold complete.

 

[zephyr17]

You know, I've often considered the Superliner "roomette" to be a section with a door (and small, bad beds...).

 

[jis]

You know, I've often considered the Superliner "roomette" to be a section with a door (and small, bad beds...).

But the accommodation is not sold as if it was a section.

 

[zephyr17]

You know, I've often considered the Superliner "roomette" to be a section with a door (and small, bad beds...).

But the accommodation is not sold as if it was a section.

I know, I was speaking of the physical attributes, not how it was sold. Call it a Single Occupancy Section (SOS), which Pullman did offer, where the upper was not sold.

 

[jis]

I know, I was speaking of the physical attributes, not how it was sold. Call it a Single Occupancy Section (SOS), which Pullman did offer, where the upper was not sold.

Yup. That is what it is

 

[zephyr17]

I know, I was speaking of the physical attributes, not how it was sold. Call it a Single Occupancy Section (SOS), which Pullman did offer, where the upper was not sold.

Yup. That is what it is

Wish it had a real section lower berth bed in it, though...sigh.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

One thing Amtrak does much better than the preAmtrak lines and that is that every sleeping car passenger has access to a shower.

Before Amtrak, the master rooms on the Crescent and the Broadway Limited had showers. The drawing room in the rear car of the CZ had a shower. Some lounge cars on various Southern Pacific trains had one shower to be shared by all sleeping car passengers. Maybe a few others.

QUESTION:

Did anybody on here use any of those pre Amtrak showers? I have not. Just wonder who has.