Silvers continue to be sold out!

[VentureForth]

Yeah yeah yeah, I know. There's not enough equipment. Man, what a bummer. The Silvers and the Capitol Limited seem to be consistently sold out a day or two out. Anyone know if ALL the stations along the Silver and Capitol routes can handle longer trains?

I know that Savannah could add about three more coaches or sleepers to the the longer Meteor...

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

IMHO, it is pretty good business for Amtrak to have a LD train that is constantly sold out a day or two before departure.

Having a LD train that is rarely sold out, means it has too much capacity.

Having a LD train that is sold out weeks ahead of time, means it has too little capacity.

Seems Amtrak has it just right.

 

[abcnews]

It seems to almost always sell out - especially in March (Spring break/spring training)

We're taking the Auto Train down to FL in about two weeks. There are 6 of us going down (family), so since I plan to drive back, and the car trip home to VA would be better suited for 4 people - I may book a Roomette on AGR for 2 of my daughters - from Deland to Alexandria, on either the Star or the Meteor.

If they board in Deland at 8:25 PM on the Silver Star, does anyone know if they would still serve dinner in the dinning car?

Mike

 

[nferr]

I'm taking the Meteor from NYP down to Miami on Oct. 6. Got two roomettes at what I think is close to low bucket, $202 each. I have a $375 travel credit from my around the country AGR trip last year. Coming back from Miami on Oct.11 have a bedroom booked. That one I think was $881 just for the bedroom! I'm using AGR points for that one. It's tough to find decent sleeper prices on the Meteors.

 

[nferr]

Does anybody know if they serve dinner on the Meteor before hitting Miami?

 

[BuzzKillington]

FYI, I recently checked the LSL, and it was sold out for weeks in advance... sleepers even more.

 

[AlanB]

I'm taking the Meteor from NYP down to Miami on Oct. 6. Got two roomettes at what I think is close to low bucket, $202 each. I have a $375 travel credit from my around the country AGR trip last year. Coming back from Miami on Oct.11 have a bedroom booked. That one I think was $881 just for the bedroom! I'm using AGR points for that one. It's tough to find decent sleeper prices on the Meteors.

$202 would be low bucket for a roomette NYP-MIA.

 

[AlanB]

Does anybody know if they serve dinner on the Meteor before hitting Miami?

No dinner unless the train is running very late; like more than 2 or 3 hours late.

 

[AlanB]

If they board in Deland at 8:25 PM on the Silver Star, does anyone know if they would still serve dinner in the dinning car?

I would think it unlikely, but you never know.

 

[nferr]

Does anybody know if they serve dinner on the Meteor before hitting Miami?

No dinner unless the train is running very late; like more than 2 or 3 hours late.

That's what I figured. Thanks.

 

[spacecadet]

IMHO, it is pretty good business for Amtrak to have a LD train that is constantly sold out a day or two before departure.

Having a LD train that is rarely sold out, means it has too much capacity.

Having a LD train that is sold out weeks ahead of time, means it has too little capacity.

Seems Amtrak has it just right.

Having a train sold out once in a while means you have it right. Having a train consistently sold out means you either have too little capacity or too low fares. There is obviously more demand than there is supply and there are ways to balance that.

The airlines will shoot for an 85-90% load factor. That's an average, so it means that once in a while you end up with planes that are 100% full, other days you end up with planes that are 75% full. It's an airline's worst nightmare to have a 100% average load factor, because that means they're leaving passengers at the gate. And those passengers will go to their competitors.

I suspect some passengers on Amtrak will do the same. Unable to get tickets, they will either fly or drive. Which is not what Amtrak wants.

If these trains really are complete sellouts pretty much all the time, Amtrak should raise the fares if they can't add capacity.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Having a train sold out once in a while means you have it right. Having a train consistently sold out means you either have too little capacity or too low fares. There is obviously more demand than there is supply and there are ways to balance that.

The airlines will shoot for an 85-90% load factor. That's an average, so it means that once in a while you end up with planes that are 100% full, other days you end up with planes that are 75% full. It's an airline's worst nightmare to have a 100% average load factor, because that means they're leaving passengers at the gate. And those passengers will go to their competitors.

I suspect some passengers on Amtrak will do the same. Unable to get tickets, they will either fly or drive. Which is not what Amtrak wants.

If these trains really are complete sellouts pretty much all the time, Amtrak should raise the fares if they can't add capacity.

I am still of the opinion that for LD sleepers, the better industry to use as an example, would be the cruise ship industry, not the airline industry.

Cruise ships shoot for a 100% load factor (if not more). A cruise that is sold out a day or two before departure is good, not bad.

 

[abcnews]

Just wondering,

If the Silver Meteor runs with 3 sleepers and the Star with 2. How does that affect the Dining Car? Would it be more rushed on the Meteor? Or is the Meteor more likely to hold the diner open longer?

 

[Acela150]

When eating in the dining car on the SS back in March and April I got talking to riders in the dining car. They said that they tried to book sleeping accommodations but they were sold out in January! I booked in November, and got a very good deal! Spent about $700 round trip with my Student Advantage discount!

That gives a little insight on how well the sleeping accommodations sell.

Steve

 

[spacecadet]

I am still of the opinion that for LD sleepers, the better industry to use as an example, would be the cruise ship industry, not the airline industry.

Cruise ships shoot for a 100% load factor (if not more). A cruise that is sold out a day or two before departure is good, not bad.

The cruise industry also makes money. Amtrak doesn't. If Amtrak's consistently getting 100% LF's, then they can and should raise fares.

I'm all in favor of affordable prices for everyone, but I also want Amtrak to survive and not only that, but to have enough money for consistent equipment, service and infrastructure upgrades, without having to beg to congress all the time or ram things through behind their backs. If they can raise fares and still mostly fill up trains, then they should raise fares. Say they're making an average of $300 per passenger at 100% capacity (I don't know if that's a realistic number at all, but this example works with any number), 600 passengers on a train. Now say they raise the average to $400 and sell 85% capacity, or 510 passengers. In the first instance they make $180,000, and in the second they make $204,000, even with a less full train.

I've never understood why they don't do this - they have *always* had high load factors in their sleepers (well, going back at least 10-15 years).

I also don't think the cruise line comparison works anyway, because most people are taking Amtrak for transportation, and it's not as if there isn't competition from other sources on the same routes (assuming that most people *would* fly if they had to). If you're planning a cruise, there's often only one cruise that will work for the particular time and place you want to go - there aren't 30 other cruises leaving from the same port and going to the same ports of call at the same time. So they can have 100% LF's, and it doesn't mean they're giving up passengers. It's also not really possible for a cruise line to "add capacity" like it is for an airline or Amtrak, which can add either more planes or train cars. (Raising fares would allow Amtrak to also purchase more train cars, in the long term.) Cruise ships are hugely expensive and can carry thousands of people, so there aren't just extra ones on thin routes that can be reassigned.

 

[haolerider]

Cruise lines substantially discount their inventory prior to each sailing, since they make most of their revenue with the "add-ons" - liquor, shows, shore excursions, etc. Have you ever seen the faces on passengers when they get their bills for what they have signed for while on-board. It is big money for the cruise lines.

Amtrak also has the issue of when to add extra equipment - will the demand be enough to sell out another sleeper or coach? Will it cover the operating costs with the addition of another sleeping car or coach attendant? Will the dining car be able to handle the extra passengers or is it at capacity already? What about the lounge car?

The goal of revenue management is to balance the supply (and price) with the demand and as noted in other posts, if Amtrak is running at 100% they are doing it right. They also have a different problem than the airlines and cruise industry, since not all passengers are going from the origin to the final destination. There are as many legs on an Amtrak route as there are stops. Balancing the inventory and pricing along the routes is vastly more challenging than with the airlines or a cruise line. It is really comparing apples and monkeys!!

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak also has the issue of when to add extra equipment - will the demand be enough to sell out another sleeper or coach? Will it cover the operating costs with the addition of another sleeping car or coach attendant? Will the dining car be able to handle the extra passengers or is it at capacity already? What about the lounge car?

And can they sell rooms in the car for its return trip or is it going to run empty?

 

[NE933]

My friends, I was a teenager watching Silver Star and Meteor consists that ran up to 18 cars throughout the 80s and well into the early 90's. Six sleepers, a couple of them slumbercoaches, was the norm. In fact, during the summer recess when we went to Florida in the hottest time of year, these 18 plus?! car behemoths were up to the brim in passengers, especially by the time we got into Virginia. The reason for my 18 plus reference is that one day in the pool, a family who happened to take Amtrak had befriended us. According to them, the Silver train they were on was slated to carry a large group (scouts or church group?) in addition to the regular passenger detail, and whether or not it was within policy, they added extra coaches and cafe's to swell it up to a total of 30 or so cars. Those were the days Amtrak had people and equipment that can and shall handle anything.

 

[SunsetLimited01]

My friends, I was a teenager watching Silver Star and Meteor consists that ran up to 18 cars throughout the 80s and well into the early 90's. Six sleepers, a couple of them slumbercoaches, was the norm. In fact, during the summer recess when we went to Florida in the hottest time of year, these 18 plus?! car behemoths were up to the brim in passengers, especially by the time we got into Virginia. The reason for my 18 plus reference is that one day in the pool, a family who happened to take Amtrak had befriended us. According to them, the Silver train they were on was slated to carry a large group (scouts or church group?) in addition to the regular passenger detail, and whether or not it was within policy, they added extra coaches and cafe's to swell it up to a total of 30 or so cars. Those were the days Amtrak had people and equipment that can and shall handle anything.

Mamma Mia that is a huge train. Must have been quite interesting to see back then.

 

[MrFSS]

My friends, I was a teenager watching Silver Star and Meteor consists that ran up to 18 cars throughout the 80s and well into the early 90's. Six sleepers, a couple of them slumbercoaches, was the norm. In fact, during the summer recess when we went to Florida in the hottest time of year, these 18 plus?! car behemoths were up to the brim in passengers, especially by the time we got into Virginia. The reason for my 18 plus reference is that one day in the pool, a family who happened to take Amtrak had befriended us. According to them, the Silver train they were on was slated to carry a large group (scouts or church group?) in addition to the regular passenger detail, and whether or not it was within policy, they added extra coaches and cafe's to swell it up to a total of 30 or so cars. Those were the days Amtrak had people and equipment that can and shall handle anything.

Mamma Mia that is a huge train. Must have been quite interesting to see back then.

HERE is a video I took in 1992 at BWI. I think I counted 16-17 cars on this train. Probably one of the Silvers.

 

[NE933]

HERE is a video I took in 1992 at BWI. I think I counted 16-17 cars on this train. Probably one of the Silvers.

Loved it!! I'm shaking my head, thinking of what we've done. Current consists are anemic with the usual ten cars. You've captured what Amtrak must come back to. The smallest Silver Meteor/Star ever got was 13 cars, during non peak fall months, larger than what we have now. The theories for this are both legion and legendary, mine is that when the retention toilet mandate approached, which was while the Viewliners were being made, budgets were slashed and a dying W. Graham Claytor simply could not ignore his cancer pain any longer. If he didn't get sick, or had a real, qualified successor lined up, the number of new sleepers would not have been cut to 50. It was originally planned to have 200, and in 1993 or so changes in political power, plus escalating costs from the aged Heritage fleet, adjusted that number to an initial 100. Later on, even that would be halved, and the legacy of those decisions are what we talk and lament about.

<:-(

 

[dlagrua]

The passenger loads on Amtrak vary with the seasons. We were on the CL this past June and it was not anywhere near capacity. There were maybe a dozen people in the sightseer lounge and a few bedrooms remained unsold. We've also been on the AutoTrain in mid December where the passenger load was light and many rooms were unsold. I would say that on most routes July and August are the busiest months so we tend to avoid traveling at that time.

 

[SunsetLimited01]

My friends, I was a teenager watching Silver Star and Meteor consists that ran up to 18 cars throughout the 80s and well into the early 90's. Six sleepers, a couple of them slumbercoaches, was the norm. In fact, during the summer recess when we went to Florida in the hottest time of year, these 18 plus?! car behemoths were up to the brim in passengers, especially by the time we got into Virginia. The reason for my 18 plus reference is that one day in the pool, a family who happened to take Amtrak had befriended us. According to them, the Silver train they were on was slated to carry a large group (scouts or church group?) in addition to the regular passenger detail, and whether or not it was within policy, they added extra coaches and cafe's to swell it up to a total of 30 or so cars. Those were the days Amtrak had people and equipment that can and shall handle anything.

Mamma Mia that is a huge train. Must have been quite interesting to see back then.

HERE is a video I took in 1992 at BWI. I think I counted 16-17 cars on this train. Probably one of the Silvers.

Love those heritage cars and the E60s.

 

[dlagrua]

If Amtrak's consistently getting 100% LF's, then they can and should raise fares.

On sold out trains many of the seats and sleepers are already being sold at high bucket. Raise the price even higher for a trip in the same tired worn out sleepers and you risk losing passenger traffic. If the prices go up any higher we will take to the road. I believe that lots of passengers also feel this way. When Amtrak made the 25% discount on the NE corridor permanent, ridership soared to new record highs. It became a better buy then flying. The consumer realized it and flocked to the rails.

Also consider than on LD trains, Amtrak sleeper prices are 3 to 5x what a plane ticket costs and 5-15x slower. Its still twice as high as a first class airfare seat.

What makes you believe that Amtrak has such a great service that they can get unlimited prices? Prices need to be balanced so that tickets can be sold year round. Only a few trains in the non-vacation months consistently sell out so the forumula of supply and demand already applies.

Did you know that the high bucket ONE WAY fare on the LSL from NYC to CHI is $165 and add on for a sleeper is $463 roomette and $863 bedroom. Do the math and you've got a trip that costs $630- $1028 & again ONE WAY FARE. Round trip costs you $1260-$2056. Thats just not expensive, that's highway robbery!

 

[rrdude]

If Amtrak's consistently getting 100% LF's, then they can and should raise fares.

On sold out trains many of the seats and sleepers are already being sold at high bucket. Raise the price even higher for a trip in the same tired worn out sleepers and you risk losing passenger traffic. If the prices go up any higher we will take to the road. I believe that lots of passengers also feel this way. When Amtrak made the 25% discount on the NE corridor permanent, ridership soared to new record highs. It became a better buy then flying. The consumer realized it and flocked to the rails.

Also consider than on LD trains, Amtrak sleeper prices are 3 to 5x what a plane ticket costs and 5-15x slower. Its still twice as high as a first class airfare seat.

What makes you believe that Amtrak has such a great service that they can get unlimited prices? Prices need to be balanced so that tickets can be sold year round. Only a few trains in the non-vacation months consistently sell out so the forumula of supply and demand already applies.

Did you know that the high bucket ONE WAY fare on the LSL from NYC to CHI is $165 and add on for a sleeper is $463 roomette and $863 bedroom. Do the math and you've got a trip that costs $630- $1028 & again ONE WAY FARE. Round trip costs you $1260-$2056. Thats just not expensive, that's highway robbery!

I don't like those prices either, but if it sells out, it's not highway robbery, it's money in the bank, for Amtrak. Good for them.