New York to Chicago Lake Shores or Cardinal

[doodaa]

Just starting to plan a trip for next May Im trying to work out how to get from new York to Chicago, have ridden The Capitol Limited and the Pennsylvanian changing at Pittsburgh. So whats thinking of the other two routes, journey time is not a problem.

Which route passes the most interesting things in day light railroad wise (yards, engine facilaties etc)

Does the cardinal have a heratage dinner and given the stupid o'clock start from NYP do you get breakfast on departure?

thank for your help in advance

Steve J

 

[Steve4031]

The Cardinal does not have a full service diner. Railfan wise, you could get a ride on the corridor in a sleeper from NYP to WAS. I like the larger windows in viewliner sleepers, so this is a plus for me. After Washington, you ride of NFS's double track main line to Orange, VA, and then a VERY slow run up a branchline type operation to Charlottesville, where you cross the NFS main line as you head west. After Charlottesville, you have an interesting climb over a mountain pass. In fact, the rest of the way to Charleston, WV is scenic. Rail fan wise IIRC you are on CSX and will see lots of coal trains. The next morning between Indianapolis and Chicago you will ride the old monon line for about an hour or so. The ride into Chicago passes through freights yards and lots of junctions. In general, after you get off of the Corridor, the Cardinal is not a particularly fast train. IMHO, the food service on this train is often an annoyance. The trade off, is a long train ride and great scenery.

The Lake Shore Limited has a full service diner. After leaving NYP is soon running along the Hudson for most of the way to Albany. This is a multiple track railroad with commuter activity to Poughkeepsie(I know the spelling is wrong). A treat is to get dinner in the diner with a seat at a table on the left side going north. In May, it will be light late enough to enjoy this. After albany, the LSL operates on CSX and NFS all of the way to Chicago. This is a double track railroad with lots of freight activity. Often the dispatcher crosses the LSL from one track to the other to work to get it around slower moving freight traffic. West of Albany, the LSL runs along the Mohawk river which is on the left. Unless the scheedule has changed, you will still have some daylight to do this. IF not, hopefully your room is on the left side. Just turn off your light and enjoy the show.

The ride into Chicago is pretty direct on a double and triple track mainline. Often the LSL gets delayed by freights between Toledo and Chicago. So it is better not to have firm plans until the afternoon in Chicago.

IMHO, the LSL is the better complete railfan experience because of the Diner. The Cardinal has more dramatic scenery. If possible, ride the LSL westbound and the Cardinal East bound.

IF you are interested in the Cardinal, book early. There is only one sleeper on this train, and this drives up the cost of the rooms. Coach IMHO is not an option on either of these trains.

 

[abcnews]

As was mentioned - the Cardinal offers a chance to do the corridor in a Viewliner. Then somewhere between Manassas, VA and Culpeper - the scenery begins to get very nice. Mostly nice fields and farmland - and some very nice horse farms. Then as you get closer to Culpeper (at around 12 noon), it really gets nice... I know between Culpeper and Orange VA it is mostly cattle grazing - rolling high hills, and far off views of the Blue Ridge Mountains (nice). My favorite stretch on the Cardinal is from Culpeper, VA to White Sulfur, WV (which is about 12:30 PM - 5 PM) - simply due to the ruggedness of the mountains, and the challenge those large mountains presented to the original C & O Railway.

Along the old C & O you will pass Charlottesville at 2 PM (historic UVA), climb the Blue Ridge to Afton, VA (nice), enter Blue Ridge tunnel (long) then exit on the west side of the tall mountains in the Sheanandoa Valley of VA - cross the NS Valley line in Waynesboro (no stop). When you leave Staunton VA - heading west - the terrain is much more like Montana for the next hour - with cattle grazing on large open tracks of pasture land on rolling hills - and a backdrop of tall mountains to the west (and East too). I love this part. Not much civilization, and what there is - is old and quaint. It's really like stepping back in time.

Clifton Forge was once a huge rail center - still a major division point. You enter Clifton on the "Mountain" subdivision - which comes in from Staunton, and the "River" sub comes in from Richmond - that is also a very beautiful rail line along the James River of VA - but no passenger service. Mostly coal trains to Newport News VA.

In the 1950s and 1960s the C & O really marketed their name passenger trains well (The George Washington, etc..) using color photos from the Charlottesville area. So from Charlottesville on - the scenery is just spectacular. Mountain rivers, high bridges, beautiful horse farms, orchards and tall mountains. Keep in mind - that the surrounding area around Charlottesville - is home to some of the wealthiest people in the world, so the homes are large, cattle/horse tracks, with gorgeous estates, that can be seen from the train. The views from the train as you climb up to Blue Ridge Tunnel are more like views from an airplane. You eventually look down about a 1,000 feet or so to the valley below. It's not often that you travel by rail - and look "down" so far. Generally rail lines follow the lower river basins and valleys. About 20 years ago I was riding through this section on Amtrak - and a family was in the lounge car or dome car (don't recall the car type) and they were returning from a trip across America and back. They all felt that this section - from Blue Ridge Tunnel to Charlottesville was the most spectacular scenery that they had viewed on the entire trip across the US. But like me - I think they were from Virginia or the DC area - so we Virginians may be more partial to this type of scenic setting. But the fact that they expressed that had an impact on me. I recall that well. So naturally I'm a big fan of the Cardinal. Also - my first few train rides as a young lad in the 1960s was through here on the C & O. Their trains were top notch (domes, diners, Pullmans, etc..).

From Clifton Forge west you pass along the Jackson River (or is it the Cowpasture River?) along a very narrow rocky ledge between Clifton and Covington). Covington is another Rail town with a neat restored station (no stop) on the left - by the yard. Leaving Covington you will hit several short tunnels. This stretch is a favorite area for rail fans. Very tall mountains and steep grades... You will pass "Moss Run" (spectacular spot to watch trains), then the remote Jerry's Run (the highest fill on the C & O Railway), enter Allegheny Tunnel (the "Eastern Divide") and exit the tunnel westbound at "Allegheny, VA - which is also one of my favorite spots. Just gorgeous there. Then on to White Sulfur, WV and home of the C & O Greenbriar Hotel (now a Marriott property). After White Sulfur you follow the Greenbriar River to Hinton, WV an old C & O Rail town and large division point. That is where the New River begins. From here on the scenery is a remote - hard to reach, wilderness area. It's one of the deepest gorges in the entire Eastern US. They say at certain times of the year there is only one hour of "direct sunlight" in the gorge. The New River is all white water - and you will pass rafting excursions. There is no room for a highway - just a rugged river and a thin rail bed and steep sides. So rail is the best way to travel through the Gorge - either Rail or on a Raft. You pass under the outrageously high suspension bridge - funded by US tax payers for the WV Senior Senator (Byrd) who was also a pro rail advocate of the Amtrak Cardinal.

Once you pass Charleston it is still quite nice, but not as spectacular.

I've never been on the LSL but hope to do that trip one day - especially along the Hudson (nice). The Cardinal does offer you a half day of additional rail travel through some very nice scenery. I once saw a link on this forum to a well written New York Times travel story regarding a cross country Rail trip on Amtrak. The NYT writer chose the Cardinal over LSL in favor of scenery (I think). He mentioned seeing America from a different vantage point - not on a highway., and travelled on Amtrak's Cardinal to the Empire Builder. Nice story.

 

[Pastor Dave]

I like the scenery on the Cardinal more than the Lake Shore Limited. But it also seems to take forever, has no lounge, and limited dining service.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Cardinal has a lounge car, it just happens to share with the diner car.

I dont like the Lake Shore Limited. I hate the border patrol coming in at night near Buffalo.

 

[abcnews]

But if you travel in a Roomette on the Cardinal - as I recall, they will let you sit in the "First Class Dinning section between meals. Then you can look out either side of the train. I like that feature. Also the crew will hang out there, so you have a "scanner" so to speak, and someone in authority to get the details of any hitches that may occur along the way.

 

[eagle628]

If you're looking for scenery, the Lake Shore is about average; the only really spectacular part is the Hudson running, but it leaves Albany at about dusk during summer, and you really can't see much until about Toledo. If you like seeing rust belt scenery and grain fields, it's a good ride, but if you're not into that sort of thing, it gets old fast, the only change in what you comes after the South Bend station stop, when it becomes a lot more industrial. Eastbound, it's much better, since you leave Chicago rather late, so it's daytime running most of the way east of about Cleveland. New York State is quite nice, there's a lot of vineyards until Rochester, and there's occasional views of the Erie Canal. Some of the fastest running speeds are in this section of the route. This is also assuming the train runs on time--at one point, the LSL was known as the Late Shore Limited, and delays of upwards of two hours were not uncommon. It's got much better since, but it's still reasonable to assume you'll encounter some sort of delay en route, though it's more likely to be minor than serious.

Personally, I'd suggest taking the Cardinal westbound, and if you're returning, take the LSL coming back, as the majority of its scenic highlights are hidden by night going west.

 

[Shanghai]

Breakfast is served on the Cardinal when departing New York. It usually begins

at Trenton.

 

[rtabern]

I would go one way on the Cardinal and one way on the Lake Shore if your travel plans allowed. With that said, if you are going EAST (Chicago to New York City) take the Cardinal as you are guaranteed to get the better views through the New River Gorge -- which you might not get going WEST because there is potential for it being dark.

The views on the Cardinal are better than the Lake Shore Limited in my opinion -- so try #50 or #51 once atleast to check it out.

Of course, the downsides are the food on the Lake Shore is better than the Cardinal because you have a real dining car with a grill instead of just a convection oven. The food isnt un-edible on the Cardinal, just a little better on the LSL. The other downside is there is less "lounge car" space on the Cardinal compared to the Lake Shore Limited... so you will probably spend a lot of time in your coach seat or sleeper.

My general rule has been that if I go to the East Coast from Milwaukee I'll fly -- but if I am going west I will take the train. Mainly because the flights are short enough to be tolerable from here to the East Coast, the scenery isnt that great generally going East compared to going west, and when you are using AGR points -- you can get 2 or even 3 nights going west for the price of 1 going east. It's 2 zones either way... and I'd rather get more bang for my buck and go west.

 

[railiner]

As was mentioned - the Cardinal offers a chance to do the corridor in a Viewliner. Then somewhere between Manassas, VA and Culpeper - the scenery begins to get very nice. Mostly nice fields and farmland - and some very nice horse farms. Then as you get closer to Culpeper (at around 12 noon), it really gets nice... I know between Culpeper and Orange VA it is mostly cattle grazing - rolling high hills, and far off views of the Blue Ridge Mountains (nice). My favorite stretch on the Cardinal is from Culpeper, VA to White Sulfur, WV (which is about 12:30 PM - 5 PM) - simply due to the ruggedness of the mountains, and the challenge those large mountains presented to the original C & O Railway.

Along the old C & O you will pass Charlottesville at 2 PM (historic UVA), climb the Blue Ridge to Afton, VA (nice), enter Blue Ridge tunnel (long) then exit on the west side of the tall mountains in the Sheanandoa Valley of VA - cross the NS Valley line in Waynesboro (no stop). When you leave Staunton VA - heading west - the terrain is much more like Montana for the next hour - with cattle grazing on large open tracks of pasture land on rolling hills - and a backdrop of tall mountains to the west (and East too). I love this part. Not much civilization, and what there is - is old and quaint. It's really like stepping back in time.

Clifton Forge was once a huge rail center - still a major division point. You enter Clifton on the "Mountain" subdivision - which comes in from Staunton, and the "River" sub comes in from Richmond - that is also a very beautiful rail line along the James River of VA - but no passenger service. Mostly coal trains to Newport News VA.

In the 1950s and 1960s the C & O really marketed their name passenger trains well (The George Washington, etc..) using color photos from the Charlottesville area. So from Charlottesville on - the scenery is just spectacular. Mountain rivers, high bridges, beautiful horse farms, orchards and tall mountains. Keep in mind - that the surrounding area around Charlottesville - is home to some of the wealthiest people in the world, so the homes are large, cattle/horse tracks, with gorgeous estates, that can be seen from the train. The views from the train as you climb up to Blue Ridge Tunnel are more like views from an airplane. You eventually look down about a 1,000 feet or so to the valley below. It's not often that you travel by rail - and look "down" so far. Generally rail lines follow the lower river basins and valleys. About 20 years ago I was riding through this section on Amtrak - and a family was in the lounge car or dome car (don't recall the car type) and they were returning from a trip across America and back. They all felt that this section - from Blue Ridge Tunnel to Charlottesville was the most spectacular scenery that they had viewed on the entire trip across the US. But like me - I think they were from Virginia or the DC area - so we Virginians may be more partial to this type of scenic setting. But the fact that they expressed that had an impact on me. I recall that well. So naturally I'm a big fan of the Cardinal. Also - my first few train rides as a young lad in the 1960s was through here on the C & O. Their trains were top notch (domes, diners, Pullmans, etc..).

From Clifton Forge west you pass along the Jackson River (or is it the Cowpasture River?) along a very narrow rocky ledge between Clifton and Covington). Covington is another Rail town with a neat restored station (no stop) on the left - by the yard. Leaving Covington you will hit several short tunnels. This stretch is a favorite area for rail fans. Very tall mountains and steep grades... You will pass "Moss Run" (spectacular spot to watch trains), then the remote Jerry's Run (the highest fill on the C & O Railway), enter Allegheny Tunnel (the "Eastern Divide") and exit the tunnel westbound at "Allegheny, VA - which is also one of my favorite spots. Just gorgeous there. Then on to White Sulfur, WV and home of the C & O Greenbriar Hotel (now a Marriott property). After White Sulfur you follow the Greenbriar River to Hinton, WV an old C & O Rail town and large division point. That is where the New River begins. From here on the scenery is a remote - hard to reach, wilderness area. It's one of the deepest gorges in the entire Eastern US. They say at certain times of the year there is only one hour of "direct sunlight" in the gorge. The New River is all white water - and you will pass rafting excursions. There is no room for a highway - just a rugged river and a thin rail bed and steep sides. So rail is the best way to travel through the Gorge - either Rail or on a Raft. You pass under the outrageously high suspension bridge - funded by US tax payers for the WV Senior Senator (Byrd) who was also a pro rail advocate of the Amtrak Cardinal.

Once you pass Charleston it is still quite nice, but not as spectacular.

I've never been on the LSL but hope to do that trip one day - especially along the Hudson (nice). The Cardinal does offer you a half day of additional rail travel through some very nice scenery. I once saw a link on this forum to a well written New York Times travel story regarding a cross country Rail trip on Amtrak. The NYT writer chose the Cardinal over LSL in favor of scenery (I think). He mentioned seeing America from a different vantage point - not on a highway., and travelled on Amtrak's Cardinal to the Empire Builder. Nice story.

Brilliant post! You should write the route guide! Now how about a description of the rest of the route? I seem to recall enjoying the night-time along the Ohio from Huntington to Cincinatti. Lots of tugs towing barges with their searchlights blazing. I think it was on the C&O but could have been on the N&W, on the opposite shore?

 

[doodaa]

Thanks guys have booked my tickets for 11 May next year, on the Cardinal NYP - CHI the gods of amtrak were smiling, as the day I wanted to travel a roomette was at the lowest for all the days of my trip.

Steve

 

[Ryan]

Excellent choice - from a railroading perspective, you can't beat the Cardinal as it winds through the mountains with the coal trains.

 

[Rail Freak]

HAVE FUN!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/railfreak/sets/72157624161233834/

 

[abcnews]

Also, good timing for the sun. Should have plenty of daylight in mid-May, at least up to Charleston, WV - figure at about 8:15 or 8:30 it may begin to get dark.