CZ Complaint to Chris Elliott Results in Full Refund

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pdxjim

Service Attendant
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
114
Location
Albany, Oregon
This CZ trip ended well after complaining to Chris Elliott. CZ Complaint

I can agree with the state of the roomette I traveled in last November.... Very dirty and non refurbed sleeper car.

Jim in PDX
 
Gee ... did I send my letter to the wrong person ... I should have sent it to Chris Elliott!
 
Our Pennyk had a similar situation with the bathroom door in her bedroom.

If I remember correctly, she was given a rather sizable voucher because

her bathroom door was broken.
 
Well if Amtrak had more funds for capital improvements and could build some new Superliners. customers might not encounter these problems. As it stands, Amtrak has to make due with the resources Congress approves for them. Unfortunately with no new Superliners on the horizon, it is only going to get worse as the existing cars getting older and more threadbare. When Amtrak was started, private railroads like the Santa Fe that still operated great passenger trains knew that most of their cars were over 20 years old and they did not want to make the capital expenditures to build new cars which they knew would be necessary in the next 5-10 years so they joined Amtrak. Now Amtrak is encountering the same problems the railroads had with aging passenger cars due to lack of adequate funding. Amtrak needs a dedicated source of funding that would allow them to operate passenger trains nationwide that will provide decent service that will cause customers to want to travel again.
 
Wow--we just took the CZ the end of January from CHI to SF and had bedroom E . The room was as clean as it could be! Mirror looked a little spotty, but then I realized the spots wouldn't come off. A few squeaks here and there which we stuffed to quiet them. We also had a wonderful SCA. Always cheerful, helpful, and smiling. We definitely had a better experience than you did.
 
Well if Amtrak had more funds for capital improvements and could build some new Superliners. customers might not encounter these problems. As it stands, Amtrak has to make due with the resources Congress approves for them. Unfortunately with no new Superliners on the horizon, it is only going to get worse as the existing cars getting older and more threadbare. When Amtrak was started, private railroads like the Santa Fe that still operated great passenger trains knew that most of their cars were over 20 years old and they did not want to make the capital expenditures to build new cars which they knew would be necessary in the next 5-10 years so they joined Amtrak. Now Amtrak is encountering the same problems the railroads had with aging passenger cars due to lack of adequate funding. Amtrak needs a dedicated source of funding that would allow them to operate passenger trains nationwide that will provide decent service that will cause customers to want to travel again.
The Air Force has been flying B-52 bombers that were last built in the '60s - more than 50 years ago. Why? They maintain them. Amtrak's maintenance is not acceptable. I think part of it is that they don't have (or don't use) a good reporting system for issues. Conductors should have a web-connected computer on every train for all maintenance issues. SCAs should be able to use that computer to report problems in their car. Then when the car arrives at its end point, maintenance has a list of issues. I see obvious car problems that have likely existed for months or years and just probably never got fixed (or even reported).

Some issues can be addressed simply by having a maintenance person on board periodically to fix the small stuff while en-route (like that latch and spill in the article). Others require repair shop fixes and, yes, Amtrak needs sufficient spare cars to pull the problem ones out of service when they can't be fixed before going out again. But they need to do a better job of documenting the issues and quickly fixing small problems before they become big-voucher issues.

Maintenance is always the problem child. Whether it is a roof leak at your local school or non-working items at the town hall, governments don't adequately fund maintenance and pay for it over the long run by big capital spending to replace small maintenance costs.
 
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Amtrak is doing a whole lot better now than they have in the past, this is undeniable. They can, and must, do better especially with the inevitable shift of the traveling public taking the train for meaningful travel over the course of the next decade. IIRC, part of the paperless ticket project does include the ability to report real-time maintenance issues by wireless device. I envision each car having its inventory number placed into the database, and this being used not only to track its movements and assignments in consists, but to also track maintenance. Have major mechanical meltdown in a car while enroute? The OBS pulls up the wireless device, places the car inventory number into it, and pulls up a trouble ticket where information on the issue is logged and forwarded to the maintenance managers DC. This is forwarded to the respective district, and the car is scheduled for a visit to the repair shop when it gets to the end of the line.

This can be very similar for fix-on-the-go issues too. When an issue car/train arrives into a larger terminal (like Denver, for instance, on the CZ) there is a maintenance team standing by to get on the train and address the problem(s). If no problems are reported, they still have a check-list of things to take a look at and in the very least make a cursory walk-through of the passenger cars and the locomotives. This alone would have solved the issue with the door latch and the odor/cleanliness. VIA Rail up in Canada has maintenance teams along the Canadian route. One in Jasper, another in Winnipeg. When I was on the Canadian in 2008, the Winnipeg maintenance team was actually replacing a defective toilet in one of the sleeper cars. In less than 20 minutes, they had removed the problem head, done an inspection of the piping, and reinstalled a rebuilt toilet into the bathroom.

But, if we want to get down to some of the core reasons why there are cars that should have been bad-ordered before ever getting put into a consist going out on the rails, it is the same starve-them-until-they-die mentality of the political will who runs as Overlord to the Amtrak system as a whole. Maintenance does not MAKE MONEY. It spends it. So, if there is no "road to profitability'" listed in the reasons why comfort-related maintenance should be carried out, there are plenty of dumb nit-wits on Capital Hill who would like to require it be cut. If it is not directly related to safety, the only sacred cow for Amtrak funding that is a Third Rail not to be touched, then get rid of it. Just like food service, checked bag service, big-windowed Sightseer Lounge cars, etc.

Until things change, and in a perfect world Amtrak is disconnected from the crippling influence of Congress in the day-to-day operations, we will always have stories like this.
 
Man, Amtrak needs to break out the bud-nippers and start nipping these problems in the bud! :blink: If I take a bad trip, and tell two friends about it may spread to a few other people, but when it get read by who knows how many people in a natl. publication, or worse yet it gets blogged by some blogger with thousands of followers, whether these people ever intended on using Amtrak or not, their view of rail travel is already in a negative light. When the question of more funding for any kind of rail comes up these folks have already been soured and their vote or reaction will be negative.
 
Our Pennyk had a similar situation with the bathroom door in her bedroom.

If I remember correctly, she was given a rather sizable voucher because

her bathroom door was broken.
I had a very similar bathroom door problem on the Coast Starlight (on my way to the gathering last year). I did not get locked in, but the attendants needed a crow bar to open the door. There were no other bedrooms available, so I stayed in my room and did not close my bathroom door for the remainder of the trip. I used duct tape to prevent the door from slamming into the wall between the adjoining bedroom (which made Alan and Grace happy). I received a $500 voucher, which I thought was generous.
 
Wow--we just took the CZ the end of January from CHI to SF and had bedroom E . The room was as clean as it could be! Mirror looked a little spotty, but then I realized the spots wouldn't come off. A few squeaks here and there which we stuffed to quiet them. We also had a wonderful SCA. Always cheerful, helpful, and smiling. We definitely had a better experience than you did.
Just goes to show how important a good attendant is. Last summer, we were on the shabbiest sleeper I've ever seen. There were stains on the floor, threadbare seats, and a shower with peeling walls and a plugged drain.

However, our SCA Carlos made that trip one of the best I've ever had. He was funny, attentive, and a hard worker. Although he didn't have much to work with, he kept the car neat, clean and well-stocked. He took pride in his work and enjoyed caring for his "guests". Because the trip was so enjoyable, it didn't even occur to me to complain about the physical condition of the car.
 
Since nothing about US passenger trains will change anytime soon, given unlimited corporate donations to campaigns and no requirement for "media fairness", duct tape is essential. Some people claim almost anything (other than our political system) can be fixed with either duct tape or WD-40.
 
Since nothing about US passenger trains will change anytime soon, given unlimited corporate donations to campaigns and no requirement for "media fairness", duct tape is essential. Some people claim almost anything (other than our political system) can be fixed with either duct tape or WD-40.
a paperback book is also great. after you've read it you can jam it between the connecting bedroom door and the wall so that the door doesn't rattle!

it occurs to me that we're all pretty awesome (you know i'm right!) that we happily travel like mini macguyver's, because we love amtrak and we love the routes. i cannot imagine people being willing to duct tape their airline seat or pack windex to clean the windows! :)
 
Since nothing about US passenger trains will change anytime soon, given unlimited corporate donations to campaigns and no requirement for "media fairness", duct tape is essential. Some people claim almost anything (other than our political system) can be fixed with either duct tape or WD-40.
a paperback book is also great. after you've read it you can jam it between the connecting bedroom door and the wall so that the door doesn't rattle!

it occurs to me that we're all pretty awesome (you know i'm right!) that we happily travel like mini macguyver's, because we love amtrak and we love the routes. i cannot imagine people being willing to duct tape their airline seat or pack windex to clean the windows! :)
"Mini Macquyvers"? I love it! This needs to be a whole new new thread. "What Macguyver-type solution have you used on Amtrak?"
 
Since nothing about US passenger trains will change anytime soon, given unlimited corporate donations to campaigns and no requirement for "media fairness", duct tape is essential. Some people claim almost anything (other than our political system) can be fixed with either duct tape or WD-40.
I don't know... Duct tape, used correctly, might help fix our political system. :unsure:

I carry a little 'fix-it kit' with duct tape, binder clips, paper clips, pocket knife and a couple of minature bottles of scotch. ^_^ On my last trip (On #1) only the last one helped, as my roomette door was off its rollers. One of the conductors got out the crowbar from the 'emergency kit' and we got it back on its tracks, but it wouldn't stay on them. Fortunately there were rooms available in the transdorm.

The only thing that bothered me about the experience was that the SCA said the door had not worked correctly on the eastbound #2 run. So the car sat for a couple of days - plenty of time for it to be fixed - but it wasn't. My guess is that it was given the 'quick fix' - like the conductor and I did - but no one bothered to see if that actually fixed the problem.
 
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I guess it would cost too much to have a maintenance person board a train that has a problem with a car like a door not locking etc and try to fix it in route?
 
The only thing that bothered me about the experience was that the SCA said the door had not worked correctly on the eastbound #2 run. So the car sat for a couple of days - plenty of time for it to be fixed - but it wasn't. My guess is that it was given the 'quick fix' - like the conductor and I did - but no one bothered to see if that actually fixed the problem.
Amtrak has downgraded some of what can be done in New Orleans in terms of maintenance, so it is possible that's not a repair that they can make there anymore. Or it could be a result of another problem that plagues a few shops, that is pretend to fix it or give it the quick fix and then hope that it breaks again enroute meaning that it hits someone else's budget and not mine.
 
I guess it would cost too much to have a maintenance person board a train that has a problem with a car like a door not locking etc and try to fix it in route?
Not only would it cost too much, I suspect that type of repair could require two people and a partial disassembly of the door. That would not be something that you could, or even would, want to do while the car is full passengers, much less the actual room occupied.
 
Well if Amtrak had more funds for capital improvements and could build some new Superliners. customers might not encounter these problems. As it stands, Amtrak has to make due with the resources Congress approves for them. Unfortunately with no new Superliners on the horizon, it is only going to get worse as the existing cars getting older and more threadbare. When Amtrak was started, private railroads like the Santa Fe that still operated great passenger trains knew that most of their cars were over 20 years old and they did not want to make the capital expenditures to build new cars which they knew would be necessary in the next 5-10 years so they joined Amtrak. Now Amtrak is encountering the same problems the railroads had with aging passenger cars due to lack of adequate funding. Amtrak needs a dedicated source of funding that would allow them to operate passenger trains nationwide that will provide decent service that will cause customers to want to travel again.
The Air Force has been flying B-52 bombers that were last built in the '60s - more than 50 years ago. Why? They maintain them. Amtrak's maintenance is not acceptable. I think part of it is that they don't have (or don't use) a good reporting system for issues. Conductors should have a web-connected computer on every train for all maintenance issues. SCAs should be able to use that computer to report problems in their car. Then when the car arrives at its end point, maintenance has a list of issues. I see obvious car problems that have likely existed for months or years and just probably never got fixed (or even reported).

Some issues can be addressed simply by having a maintenance person on board periodically to fix the small stuff while en-route (like that latch and spill in the article). Others require repair shop fixes and, yes, Amtrak needs sufficient spare cars to pull the problem ones out of service when they can't be fixed before going out again. But they need to do a better job of documenting the issues and quickly fixing small problems before they become big-voucher issues.

Maintenance is always the problem child. Whether it is a roof leak at your local school or non-working items at the town hall, governments don't adequately fund maintenance and pay for it over the long run by big capital spending to replace small maintenance costs.
B52s don't get used by hundreds of people per years as Amtrak passenger cars do. I spent 4 years in the Air Force and B52s are maintained by professional and Air Force members are the one flying the B52s. If Amtrak had the funding that the Air Force has to maintain B52s, they might be able to maintain cars better. Amtrak does maintain cars. A good example is the heritage Dining Cars, the newest of which is 55 years old in 2012. These cars have been used longer than cars that the private railroads maintained. The private railroads would have likely converted the heritage diner to Maintenance of Way Cars 10 years ago or more.
 
Well if Amtrak had more funds for capital improvements and could build some new Superliners. customers might not encounter these problems. As it stands, Amtrak has to make due with the resources Congress approves for them. Unfortunately with no new Superliners on the horizon, it is only going to get worse as the existing cars getting older and more threadbare. When Amtrak was started, private railroads like the Santa Fe that still operated great passenger trains knew that most of their cars were over 20 years old and they did not want to make the capital expenditures to build new cars which they knew would be necessary in the next 5-10 years so they joined Amtrak. Now Amtrak is encountering the same problems the railroads had with aging passenger cars due to lack of adequate funding. Amtrak needs a dedicated source of funding that would allow them to operate passenger trains nationwide that will provide decent service that will cause customers to want to travel again.
The Air Force has been flying B-52 bombers that were last built in the '60s - more than 50 years ago. Why? They maintain them. Amtrak's maintenance is not acceptable. I think part of it is that they don't have (or don't use) a good reporting system for issues. Conductors should have a web-connected computer on every train for all maintenance issues. SCAs should be able to use that computer to report problems in their car. Then when the car arrives at its end point, maintenance has a list of issues. I see obvious car problems that have likely existed for months or years and just probably never got fixed (or even reported).

Maintenance is always the problem child. Whether it is a roof leak at your local school or non-working items at the town hall, governments don't adequately fund maintenance and pay for it over the long run by big capital spending to replace small maintenance costs.
B52s don't get used by hundreds of people per years as Amtrak passenger cars do. I spent 4 years in the Air Force and B52s are maintained by professional and Air Force members are the one flying the B52s. If Amtrak had the funding that the Air Force has to maintain B52s, they might be able to maintain cars better. Amtrak does maintain cars. A good example is the heritage Dining Cars, the newest of which is 55 years old in 2012. These cars have been used longer than cars that the private railroads maintained. The private railroads would have likely converted the heritage diner to Maintenance of Way Cars 10 years ago or more.
I assume you missed the comment I had written above. I highlighted it for you. Of course, money is the problem. But my point was that planes and trains can fly or run for long periods if they are well maintained. If not, you have to buy new ones because they get worn out. As a government funded corporation, Amtrak gets little enough for maintenance This is not a point of contention between us. We agree on the point. Maintenance is money well spent but you have to get the money in the first place. And that of course includes funding for spare planes (or cars) so you can pull them out of service to do the maintenance right.
 
Since nothing about US passenger trains will change anytime soon, given unlimited corporate donations to campaigns and no requirement for "media fairness", duct tape is essential. Some people claim almost anything (other than our political system) can be fixed with either duct tape or WD-40.
a paperback book is also great. after you've read it you can jam it between the connecting bedroom door and the wall so that the door doesn't rattle!

it occurs to me that we're all pretty awesome (you know i'm right!) that we happily travel like mini macguyver's, because we love amtrak and we love the routes. i cannot imagine people being willing to duct tape their airline seat or pack windex to clean the windows! :)
"Mini Macquyvers"? I love it! This needs to be a whole new new thread. "What Macguyver-type solution have you used on Amtrak?"
I have found a dime makes a handy screwdriver. On the Lake Shore Limited, I came into a Viewliner and one of the overhead panels had just dropped loose and was hanging by the safety chains, blocking the aisle. After satisfying my curiosity as to what was up there, I put it back in place and used a dime to turn and secure the latch bolts. Problem quickly solved.
 
Well if Amtrak had more funds for capital improvements and could build some new Superliners. customers might not encounter these problems. As it stands, Amtrak has to make due with the resources Congress approves for them. Unfortunately with no new Superliners on the horizon, it is only going to get worse as the existing cars getting older and more threadbare. When Amtrak was started, private railroads like the Santa Fe that still operated great passenger trains knew that most of their cars were over 20 years old and they did not want to make the capital expenditures to build new cars which they knew would be necessary in the next 5-10 years so they joined Amtrak. Now Amtrak is encountering the same problems the railroads had with aging passenger cars due to lack of adequate funding. Amtrak needs a dedicated source of funding that would allow them to operate passenger trains nationwide that will provide decent service that will cause customers to want to travel again.
Regarding the Superliners, Amtrak doesn't necessarily need new cars. What they need is to routinely refurbish the interiors of their current cars. Last night I was in an early Superliner I refurb (32016, refurbished in August 2004), and it was quite gross. This car doesn't need a refurb with its next overhaul in 20 years; what it needs is a refurbishment now, and in ten years, etc.
 
Maintenance is always the problem child. Whether it is a roof leak at your local school or non-working items at the town hall, governments don't adequately fund maintenance and pay for it over the long run by big capital spending to replace small maintenance costs.
This is precisely why the "travel voucher" system is necessary. Otherwise, maintenance only costs, it doesn't pay.

That being said, I recently made 2 CZ and a CL sleeper trips; and I had no complaints whatsoever. I also took a coach segment; and the car looked brand new.
 
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I rode the CS from LAX to PDX on 2/13/12. We were 2 couples in adjoining D/E bedrooms. I was the only one who had ever ridden Amtrak before.

They didn't like the trip and won't be on a train again. The parlor car was fine the first day, but was absolutely frigid after we crossed into Oregon, we could not sit there on day 2. The attendant blew us off when we complained, he actually flicked his hand at us when we asked about heat in the car. By the afternoon even he admitted the temperature was a problem.

My companions couldn't deal with the cramped quarters in the bedroom, especially using the sink once the beds were made. I kept suggesting using the restrooms in the hall and they refused. My husband is somewhat disabled, so I insisted on sleeping in the upper bunk - it was near torture. I will continue to ride Amtrak, solo in roommates, my husband and friends think I'm nuts.
 
A recent tour of Beech Grove revealed several early Superliner sleepers receiving complete interior overhauls.

Daze
 
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