How to handle the TSA? Take Amtrak!

[CHamilton]

How Can I Best Handle the TSA’s Creepy Tactics When Traveling? [Ask Lifehacker]

http://lifehacker.com/5900260/how-can-stop-worrying-about-the-tsas-creepy-tactics-when-traveling

Consider Alternate Transportation Methods
If you really can't shake the TSA, customs, or security checkpoint jitters, you may want to consider alternate means of transport entirely. If you live in an area where you can take a train to and from your destination, you may want to look into it—it may take longer, but I've found that at least in the Northeast Corridor (here in the US) Amtrak train tickets (even in business class!) are comparable to plane tickets if not cheaper depending on when you want to travel. If you pack light, you don't have to worry about checking luggage, the rides are comfortable, the trains often have Wi-Fi (and if they don't, it's not like you have to turn your gear off on a train), well-stocked (if not pricey) cafe cars, plenty of clean bathrooms, and if you're riding business class, you can stretch out and relax. Plus, all of the intense screening you're used to in airports? None of that in most train stations.

Most of us will smile at this description, but I wonder how much of Amtrak's record ridership is made up of people avoiding the TSA.

 

[the_traveler]

And let's keep it that way!

I don't fly unless I absolutely have to be there yesterday!

(And even then I debate it!)

 

[Shortline]

How Can I Best Handle the TSA's Creepy Tactics When Traveling? [Ask Lifehacker]

http://lifehacker.co...-when-traveling

Consider Alternate Transportation Methods

Most of us will smile at this description, but I wonder how much of Amtrak's record ridership is made up of people avoiding the TSA.

Been working for drug mules for years! Wonder for how much longer though....only going to take 1 incident with a bomb or some clown boarding with enough ammunition to clear the train front to rear before the game is over-Something serious like that would be the end of LD trains in the US.

And, frankly, I don't get the up in arms agains TSA thing. Sure, they're mostly for show, but I think they have been marginally effective for some things-I know they can find pocket knives, they've got about a dozen of mine now.....besides, I go through security at airports 6-10 times a month all across the US, it's no big deal. As a Frequent Flier, I do get the express line, but the actual process is not that tough. No different than entering the FRA building/Courthouse/DOT offices.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Most of us will smile at this description, but I wonder how much of Amtrak's record ridership is made up of people avoiding the TSA.

I will have to say that avoiding the TSA hassle has somewhat of an effect on why I prefer to take the train, but certainly not the only reason or the most significant one....

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't get the up in arms agains TSA thing...

&

As a Frequent Flier, I do get the express line...

Looks like you already answered a big part of your own question.

There's also the way some of us were raised, what with our deep respect for civil rights and liberties and all.

And then there are the folks who would rather everyone just grinned and bared it like they do.

 

[PRR 60]

I don't get the up in arms agains TSA thing...

&

As a Frequent Flier, I do get the express line...

Looks like you already answered a big part of your own question.

There's also the way some of us were raised, what with our deep respect for civil rights and liberties and all.

And then there are the folks who would rather everyone just grinned and bared it like they do.

It is also possible that Shortline was raised with the same "deep respect for civil rights and liberties" as you, and just happens to disagree with you on this point.

 

[Phil S]

It's not just TSA, their long lines, and ridiculous rules. I have come to hate the airports, and the airplanes, and a large portion of the flight attendants, and those silly on-board rules that are at best randomly enforced. Most of all the airlines are not dependable. My last trip I arrived a full day late - vety minor weather delay caused me to miss connection. No space on other flights that day. Trains (with sleeper) are fun and relaxing. I love the scenery (well, most of it). I find interesting knowledgeable people to talk with (including most of the SCAs). And I feel like I've actually travelled, not just been catapaulted across the country in a cigar tube. OTOH, I have seen some beautiful scenery on flights, especially trans-polar, had on occasion geat crews and good food (in Business class). But the airport/airline screw-ups way outnumber the good flights.

 

[ParrotRob]

How Can I Best Handle the TSA's Creepy Tactics When Traveling? [Ask Lifehacker]

http://lifehacker.co...-when-traveling

Consider Alternate Transportation Methods

Most of us will smile at this description, but I wonder how much of Amtrak's record ridership is made up of people avoiding the TSA.

Been working for drug mules for years! Wonder for how much longer though....only going to take 1 incident with a bomb or some clown boarding with enough ammunition to clear the train front to rear before the game is over-Something serious like that would be the end of LD trains in the US.

And, frankly, I don't get the up in arms agains TSA thing. Sure, they're mostly for show, but I think they have been marginally effective for some things-I know they can find pocket knives, they've got about a dozen of mine now.....besides, I go through security at airports 6-10 times a month all across the US, it's no big deal. As a Frequent Flier, I do get the express line, but the actual process is not that tough. No different than entering the FRA building/Courthouse/DOT offices.

Thank you, someone else who actually feels the way I do. Yeah, they are mostly show, but I, too, go through airports ALL THE TIME, and I've never once been hassled or felt violated in any way by the TSA. The people who complain about them would have no problems if they just took a few minutes to familiarize themselves with the rules and then follow them.

 

[ParrotRob]

I don't get the up in arms agains TSA thing...

&

As a Frequent Flier, I do get the express line...

Looks like you already answered a big part of your own question.

There's also the way some of us were raised, what with our deep respect for civil rights and liberties and all.

And then there are the folks who would rather everyone just grinned and bared it like they do.

150+ flights in the last year, and I've never had to "bare" anything

Oh, and a TSA agent has never laid a finger on my person except to help me out of a wheelchair when I had a broken leg.

 

[Anonymous]

I do not want to be faced with the possibility of having to let a stranger look under my clothes (regardless of whether it is virtually) and/or have a stranger touch me in very private areas on my body just so I can travel about my own country. Therefore, the TSA is THE reason why Amtrak has been receiving all my business. I'm not treated like a criminal when I travel by train.....yet anyway. The miniscule threat of terrorism is not worth me giving up my dignity or sacrificing my morals and values. A lot of people in this day and time don't understand that, and that's fine.

Even if the TSA madness at the airports ends (not likely seeing how some powerful folks are making lots of money off all this), I'd still travel by train from time to time.

 

[AGRtraveler]

Delta may be ready when you are, but by golly so is Amtrak and you can leave your shoes on.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Even without TSa theres still awful airline services

 

[cirdan]

I only fly when there's genuinely no reasonable train alternative.

There's really nothing attractive about flying.

I've flown in business class a couple of times (on business) and even that isn't genuinely much better. Okay I get access to some lounges with free drinks but that doesn't really excite me. I'd rather be on a train and moving than sitting in a lounge waiting for something to happen.

 

[jis]

I don't get the up in arms agains TSA thing...

&

As a Frequent Flier, I do get the express line...

Looks like you already answered a big part of your own question.

There's also the way some of us were raised, what with our deep respect for civil rights and liberties and all.

And then there are the folks who would rather everyone just grinned and bared it like they do.

150+ flights in the last year, and I've never had to "bare" anything

Oh, and a TSA agent has never laid a finger on my person except to help me out of a wheelchair when I had a broken leg.

Likewise. I love to fly as much as I love to ride trains. I fly over 100,000 miles each year and am yet to have a problem with TSA. Things actually just got better due to the trusted traveler program, so now no need to take off shoes and take computers out of bag at airports and airlines that are participants in the program.

Frankly I find the charm of flying high above the clouds, seeing beautiful sunrises, sunsets, cloud formations, stars in daylight and even places that I could never otherwise get to, far below (e.g. the North Pole, the Hindu Kush in Afghanistan etc. etc.), is quite fascinating, at least to me. I'd never give up the chance to experience those just because of a simple security check here and there. Trains have their own charm that are different from flying and worth it in and of themselves, not as an either/or proposition relative to flying IMHO.

However, I do respect the opinions of those who do not like to fly for whatever reason and would urge them to not fly. because generally happier people as co-passengers are better than grumbling folks. What can I say?

Of course everyone to their own poisons I suppose

 

[JoeBas]

Most of us will smile at this description, but I wonder how much of Amtrak's record ridership is made up of people avoiding the TSA.

I can assure you that it's a significant factor for a NUMBER of Long Distance travelers, based on conversations in the diner...

Thank you, someone else who actually feels the way I do. Yeah, they are mostly show, but I, too, go through airports ALL THE TIME, and I've never once been hassled or felt violated in any way by the TSA.

Well bully for you. What about those of us who have?

The people who complain about them would have no problems if they just took a few minutes to familiarize themselves with the rules and then follow them.

Yeah, because the rules are SOOOOOOO consistent... must be the victim's fault!

 

[reefgeek]

I've never had too much inconvenience from the TSA, just don't like the lines.

Besides, I have to go from NJ to Dallas periodically and my boss thinks that three days is too much travel time when there's direct flights. Go figure. :giggle:

 

[JayPea]

While I would rather take the train, for the kind of Amtrak trips I take, because of time restraints, I have to fly one direction and take Amtrak the other. I really don't mind flying. The only time I have had a problem with TSA was one time in Spokane, when an agent singled me (and my backpack) out for a thorough inspection. That in itself wasn't so bad, but the inspection took so long that I was in danger of missing my flight. And when I tried to point that out to the agent, she got rather nasty. When I finally got done, I ran up to my gate area amd got there just as my flight was being called. Other than that, no problems. I guess for me, the most annoying aspect of flying is being told how stupid I am for flying, how dumb I am for "letting TSA invade my civil rights" and how I'm a "sheeple", and how being "subservient to the government" is only making easier "for them to control us". I totally respect the opinions and actions who choose not to fly. And I understand people who have had a much harder time with TSA than I have. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what they should and shouldn't do with regards to flying based on MY experiences. Likewise, no one should tell me what to do or what not to do based on THEIRS.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't get the up in arms agains TSA thing...

&

As a Frequent Flier, I do get the express line...

Looks like you already answered a big part of your own question. There's also the way some of us were raised, what with our deep respect for civil rights and liberties and all. And then there are the folks who would rather everyone just grinned and bared it like they do.

It is also possible that Shortline was raised with the same "deep respect for civil rights and liberties" as you, and just happens to disagree with you on this point.

I'd welcome a serious defender of civil rights explaining how the TSA is not a loss of our civil liberties or an end-run around a hundred years of search-seizure-charge precedent. Let's hear it...

150+ flights in the last year, and I've never had to "bare" anything Oh, and a TSA agent has never laid a finger on my person except to help me out of a wheelchair when I had a broken leg.

Do you have an actual position on the matter, or are you just here to tell us that until it happens to you it's not important?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

The TSA is bad enough but the games most of the airlines now play with all the extra vigorish they charge for bags, boarding passes, flight changes and such have kept me out of the air for several years. And despite being a fan of airline history, I do not miss flying one bit.

 

[bmorechris]

I'd welcome a serious defender of civil rights explaining how the TSA is not a loss of our civil liberties or an end-run around a hundred years of search-seizure-charge precedent. Let's hear it...

When you fly (or travel Amtrak for that matter) you enter into a contract with a private entity. By purchasing that ticket, whether you like it or not, you agree to their contract of carriage. This is the pertinent rule from United's contract of carriage:

RULE 20 SCREENING OF PASSENGERS AND BAGGAGE

Passengers and/or their baggage are subject to security screening, including but not limited to, security profiling, physical pat-downs and inspections, x-ray screening, manual bag searches, questioning of Passengers, and use of electronic or other detectors or screening or security devices, in the sole discretion of the government, airport or UA, and with or without the Passenger‘s presence, consent or knowledge. Neither UA nor its employees or agents is liable for any damage, loss, delay (including refusal to transport), confiscation of property, injury or other harm relating to or arising out of security screening or Passenger's failure to submit to or comply with such security screening.

No one is forcing you to fly, so any civil liberties or illegal search argument can immediately be thrown out the window. You could always fly general aviation, no security there

 

[jis]

I guess for me, the most annoying aspect of flying is being told how stupid I am for flying, how dumb I am for "letting TSA invade my civil rights" and how I'm a "sheeple", and how being "subservient to the government" is only making easier "for them to control us". I totally respect the opinions and actions who choose not to fly. And I understand people who have had a much harder time with TSA than I have. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what they should and shouldn't do with regards to flying based on MY experiences. Likewise, no one should tell me what to do or what not to do based on THEIRS.

I am with you 100% on that. It's another one of the minor annoyances in life like the TSA. I just ignore such advisers with a smile, since they have no clue what they speak of as far as my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is concerned, even though they may have somehow convinced themselves that they have the inside track on truth on these matters.

Incidentally, I have similar disdain for those that try to explain to me why riding trains is stupid too, and trust me there are at least as many of those around too.

Incidentally also, this is not to say that there aren't a few inherent problems with the operation of DHS, CBP, TSA and even NSA and a host of other alphabet soup. But that is hardly going to keep me from doing things that I like to do. If you had to refrain from doing things that are affected by their activities then you'd have to just stay in your home with windows shuttered with no telephone, internet or electricity, and you'd be lucky if you can find untainted food. Not for me.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

No one is forcing you to fly, so any civil liberties or illegal search argument can immediately be thrown out the window. You could always fly general aviation, no security there.

So are you saying that if the loss of these liberties is legal under American law then it's simply not a loss at all? As a practical matter most Americans cannot replace commercial flying with general aviation flying. Likewise, many jobs that I may be hired for consider routine travel on commercial flights to be a requirement of continued employment. If the TSA confuses me with any of the tens-of-thousands of folks on their no-fly list from who knows where, who do I talk to about having my information corrected or my name removed? So far as I can tell the TSA does not seem to have much in the way of independent oversight. Like any true boondoggle, in many ways the TSA are their own judge and jury. Although some people apparently luck out and eventually find some sort of workable resolution not everyone has the means or connections to do so.

As a practical matter how do you retain a job that requires you to travel on a regular basis if the TSA has fingered you for abuse? How do you correct it? How do you reach Europe or Asia in anything resembling a reasonable time without access to a commercial flight? Even if you're traveling domestically we now have stop-and-search processing on arteries as large and important as I-10. That didn't use to bother as much me until I saw how little we truly understand about what inspection dogs are actually picking up on when they alert. In short, I simply do not agree we're not in the process of losing our civil liberties simply because the powers that be have found a fully legal method for taking them away.

I am with you 100% on that. It's another one of the minor annoyances in life like the TSA. I just ignore such advisers with a smile...

Oh really? Did you already forget the following post earlier in the thread?

I do respect the opinions of those who do not like to fly for whatever reason and would urge them to not fly...Incidentally, I have similar disdain for those that try to explain to me why riding trains is stupid too, and trust me there are at least as many of those around too.

Urging people to run away from issues they see as a problem would seem to be a weird way to show them respect for their opinion. Actually, it would seem to be the opposite of showing respect. Which is pretty much what "disdain" means. I guess the truth comes out in the end eh?

Some folks don't see a given issue as a problem. Fair enough. Some folks see a given issue as a problem they'd like resolved. Best of luck to them. Still other folks see an issue as problem they'd rather run away from. So be it. And then there are folks who don't see a given issue as a problem but still go out of their way to urge those who do see it as a problem to run away from it. That would be you Jis. That's not respect. That's hypocrisy.

 

[Ozark Southern]

The TSA is bad enough but the games most of the airlines now play with all the extra vigorish they charge for bags, boarding passes, flight changes and such have kept me out of the air for several years. And despite being a fan of airline history, I do not miss flying one bit.

This is a lot more why I prefer Amtrak. Sure, the TSA are irritating, and they obviously do little is anything to actually make us safer, but in the end, they're not really all that bad. We were converted to Amtrak when we had to take a trip when my wife was 9 mos. pregnant. She couldn't fly, and we didn't really want to drive 9 hours. Despite having taken two corridor trains with Horizon equipment and no diner, only the cafe car, the quality of service was excellent considering what they had to work with. We were so impressed we've stopped driving any place that Amtrak goes. I also haven't flown since Jan. 2009, but that's mostly because we've had a couple of kids since then and therefore no money for a trip like that.

 

[Tsuyoshi]

This is a significant reason why I have avoided flying ever since 2001. Partly just because it's annoying, like the cramped seating, but also partly because it makes me angry to be reminded about the paranoia that has overrun so many areas of American life.

Do you remember what it was like to fly before the paranoia about terrorism took over? Ever since then, I have been searched every single time I've gotten on a plane in the US. And besides the invasive searches, there is the confiscation of harmless objects such as nail clippers, bottles of water, and tubes of toothpaste. Plus we have to take off our shoes, remove our jewelry, and put up with whatever other arbitrary rules the TSA peons happen to come up with on any particular day.

And it's really all for nothing. Think about it. If you want to kill a large number of people, you don't have to crash a plane to do it. There are thousands of other opportunities to do that. So the supposed problem is if someone takes control of a plane and crashes it into something else. But this tactic even failed on the very first day it was tried. They tried to do this three times back in 2001, and the third time failed because the passengers on the third flight heard about the first two, and realized what they had to do. It will never happen again, not because of all the theatric "security" nonsense we have to go through every time we get on a plane, but because regular people would not let someone use a plane as a weapon again.

So it's really all for nothing, and it makes me angry every time I get on a plane.

 

[dlagrua]

I have no problem with bomb sniffing dogs at the large Amtrak terminals as they provide a non-intrusive search service. I do have a problem with the Blueshirts putting their hands on me and my family. We are hard working, hopefully decent, law abiding citizens and refuse to be treated like prisoners of war. This is H*tlers Germany all over again only his soldiers wore Brownshirts.

Until the system changes so that government starts respecting the Bill of Rights again, I will not fly.