Is there a way to buy a one day pass to the metro lounge?

[AlanB]

Wouldn't priority boarding at stations like BOS be something that would of value to AGR elites? One reason I have never made any extra effort to make AGR status is that I don't see what it gets me. For my use, S and even S+ benefits are thin. This would at least be something of value. Right now, you could be an AGR S+ member with 20K EQP's a year, and if you want to board early at BOS, you better peal off a couple of bills as a bribe, er, tip. Ridiculous.

Well status does get you that in DC & Philly. And if the attendant is on the ball at least, in NY you can be at the head of the line at the escalator if one has status. In Boston it is true that they've ended the practice of escorting those in the lounge out to the train. On the other hand if one has an FC ticket, one can still walk up to the gate attendant and be let out to the train earlier than those holding BC tickets.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Not that Red Caps will juggle for me on command.

This continues to be the crux of your problem and failure to understand things. No Redcap juggled anything for me on Monday. He was standing around in the area that they normally stand in Boston, right by the doors to the Club Acela. Anyone can see them and ask for their help. Which is exactly what I did as I walked to the lounge to get my ticket. After getting my ticket, I returned down to the ground level and he walked me out to my train.

He had NO bags on his cart. There was NO one else for him to help. There was NO juggling involved. There were only two other people even in the lounge and I believe, although I will not swear to it, that they were brought out by the other Redcap who was busy talking to my Redcap when I first walked up. NO one who needed help of any sort was put on the back burner because of my request.

Let me also point out again that I'm in Boston enough, such that most of the Redcaps know me on sight. I have legitimately used their services many times; read I've actually handed them luggage for me and on many occasions my mom also. So it's more than just wanting another tip for them in the case of Monday, they know that I'm in Boston a lot. I'm a regular. And if he had needed to help someone that would have occupied his full attention, he would have simply asked me to wait in the lounge until he came back for me. But again, he had NO other customers at that point. Which is why he said to me, "come right back down once you have your ticket and I'll take you out."

We have no details regarding what you saw in Seattle that day. So we don't know if that Redcap was new, or lazy, or anything about the situation. All we know is that you saw him rushing someone out to the train at the last minute. We don't know if she showed up late. Or if she didn't ask for help earlier because she didn't realize it was even available. Or if she was standing in the ticket line waiting to get her tickets, whereupon she asked for help.

We have zero information as to what transpired to cause what you saw happening. Yet because of that one experience you have somehow concluded that dozens of people in Boston didn't get help simply because I asked a Redcap to take me out to the train early.

Up in Boston they don't start general boarding until about 10 minutes before departure. He took me out to my train 30 minutes early. That means that he had another nearly 20 minutes to help others if they came up and requested help. And again I remind you, when I asked him for help, he had NO one! There were NO bags on his cart!

Wow, a ridiculous oversimplification. This isn't about what I saw in Seattle or what you saw in Boston this week! It's about the greater practice that I've observed for years now. I've stated what I think of it all -- it smells -- and that's my only motivation in these posts. Let's keep it real, shall we?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Where did tthe Horizon BC cars go?

 

[AlanB]

Wow, a ridiculous oversimplification. This isn't about what I saw in Seattle or what you saw in Boston this week! It's about the greater practice that I've observed for years now. I've stated what I think of it all -- it smells -- and that's my only motivation in these posts. Let's keep it real, shall we?

While I'll admit that I haven't spent much time sitting in Seattle to see what happens out there, I have spent considerable amounts of time Boston, NY, Philly, DC, & Chicago. And while I'm tooting my own horn, I'm a very observant person. I tend to notice things, even little things that many others would never notice. And I can assure you that if someone wants help in those stations, they are indeed getting it. And they aren't being relegated to second class status simply because 1 or 2 others with no luggage asked to be taken out to the train.

And as I said once before, up in Boston many times the FC car is on the rear of the train. So I've been sitting there in the FC car with my luggage, and often my mom, and watching the redcaps come & go multiple times. That means that upon their return to the station after bringing out the first group that additional people saw them and asked for help. Those carts in Boston can easily handle 30 bags or more, they're big carts. I could lay down on way if I curled my legs up a bit. So 1 Redcap could easily handle at least 15 or more people at a time. Yet it's rare to see more than 7 or 8 people per Redcap.

Heck, if we're to start applying your logic that one must have luggage, someone in a wheelchair with no luggage on a day trip would be unable to obtain the services of a Redcap simply because they had no luggage. They would be as guilty as you've made me out to be of asking for a service that they're not entitled to because they don't have any luggage.

Is there a problem in Seattle? I don't know. But if there is, then one needs to speak up such that Amtrak fixes the Seattle problem. But again, in most stations there is no problem being created by someone who asks to be taken out to a train without luggage.

 

[Big Iron]

what ever happened to "stop and smell the roses!"

I never saw any roses on the platforms at the stations!

And yes, the Red Caps will get you to the train before the crowds. Most times in NYP or WAS, the Red Cap has me out to the platform before the train arrives (if it is not starting there)!

I stop and smell the diesel. :lol:

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Wow, a ridiculous oversimplification. This isn't about what I saw in Seattle or what you saw in Boston this week! It's about the greater practice that I've observed for years now. I've stated what I think of it all -- it smells -- and that's my only motivation in these posts. Let's keep it real, shall we?

Heck, if we're to start applying your logic that one must have luggage, someone in a wheelchair with no luggage on a day trip would be unable to obtain the services of a Redcap simply because they had no luggage. They would be as guilty as you've made me out to be of asking for a service that they're not entitled to because they don't have any luggage.

Not quite Sir, but nice try though. Amtrak has established a specific protocol for pax to follow if they're traveling in a wheelchair. Red Caps aren't even mentioned in this section. I've seen them wheel out pax to the train before, so it appears that Amtrak does use them to help carry out this protocol. But we digress since the crux of my complaint is about the use of Red Caps by those able-bodied passengers who don't need them for any other reason than to weasel their way out to the train ahead of everyone else. And I've yet to hear a sensible explanation about how those who engage in this self-serving practice are ensuring that they are in no way delaying help to those who actually and honestly need it. I know I'm not going to change your mind and that's not why I spoke up about this subject. But part of working together to make Amtrak better is leading by example, and I think that championing this particular practice denigrates that effort.   

 

[Big Iron]

If all you are doing is following a red cap to the train then you are not utilizing his/her capacity which allows them to help another person so you are not diminishing their ability to help someone else. It may not "smell" right but its not preventing those that need assistance from getting it.

The post about the Seattle red cap helping one passenger at a time and making multiple trips only indicates the red cap needs to be trained in time and capacity management.

 

[AlanB]

If all you are doing is following a red cap to the train then you are not utilizing his/her capacity which allows them to help another person so you are not diminishing their ability to help someone else. It may not "smell" right but its not preventing those that need assistance from getting it.

Thank you!

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

If all you are doing is following a red cap to the train then you are not utilizing his/her capacity which allows them to help another person so you are not diminishing their ability to help someone else. It may not "smell" right but its not preventing those that need assistance from getting it.

Thank you!

Well if it doesn't smell right, why not just stop doing it?

 

[AlanB]

Not quite Sir, but nice try though. Amtrak has established a specific protocol for pax to follow if they're traveling in a wheelchair. Red Caps aren't even mentioned in this section. I've seen them wheel out pax to the train before, so it appears that Amtrak does use them to help carry out this protocol.

In a station with Redcaps, it will always be a Redcap that brings someone in a wheel chair to the train, unless the Redcaps have been so overwhelmed with wheel chair passengers that they must get help from a gate attendant. In a station with no Redcaps, then other Amtrak personnel will assist.

But we digress since the crux of my complaint is about the use of Red Caps by those able-bodied passengers who don't need them for any other reason than to weasel their way out to the train ahead of everyone else. And I've yet to hear a sensible explanation about how those who engage in this self-serving practice are ensuring that they are in no way delaying help to those who actually and honestly need it. I know I'm not going to change your mind and that's not why I spoke up about this subject. But part of working together to make Amtrak better is leading by example, and I think that championing this particular practice denigrates that effort.   

The crux of your complaint has been addressed multiple times by multiple people. Your refusal to accept those answers does not change things. But once again, if I ask for a Redcap who can easily bring 10 or more people to the train and I walk out with him and find that I'm the only person he's bringing out or that he only had 3 others, then I'm quite certain sir that I've deprived no one of help. And I do know that they can help many more people, as I have on occasion gone out in a group of 7 or 8.

Whether you wish to believe me or not, and I have no reason to lie to you as I would certainly wait for a Redcap to return or even general boarding if they told me that they were too busy to assist me today, that is the reality. In Boston on Monday there were 3 Redcaps, each of whom could have made 2 trips each easily with 10 to 15 people each trip. That's potentially 60 or more people who could have received help from a Redcap. And Redcaps don't say no to others because they're helping me. Heck, I've had my Redcap pick up people along the way to the gate in the past.

But I regress, on Monday those 3 Redcap brought out at most a combined 15 people at best. And my Redcap most certainly could have brought out more people if he had them, after all, he wasn't carrying anything for me. That means he had still more room left on his luggage cart; the one he didn't even bother to bring since it was empty.

That means that no one who wanted help went without because of me, regardless of whether or not you choose to believe me.

With respect, you have to be crazy if you think that my Redcap would have turned down other's for me, when he knew darn well that he could have taken them too and still collected a tip from me for basically doing nothing! I was in no hurry! All I said to him was would you come get me and take me out to the train when its time. He told me to get my ticket and come right back down because he could board me right away. Frankly, he probably figured that he could get me out there early and then still be available for others should they come looking for help. And since he did make a second trip out to the train before general boarding opened, clearly he was correct. Let me also point out that he'd much rather have someone with a lot of bags, since in theory that means a bigger tip for him, unless the person is a cheapskate.

But again, at no time did he preempt others for me. He had no luggage on his cart when I walked up. At that point in time, he was going to get zero tips for loading that train. I was his first customer for that train.

 

[AlanB]

If all you are doing is following a red cap to the train then you are not utilizing his/her capacity which allows them to help another person so you are not diminishing their ability to help someone else. It may not "smell" right but its not preventing those that need assistance from getting it.

Thank you!

Well if it doesn't smell right, why not just stop doing it? 

Because it only smells funny to you because you have this ridiculous idea in your head that thousands of people aren't getting the help they need because I asked to be included in the group of people being taken out to a train.

Maybe next time I'll let him carry my computer bag just to make you happy! :angry:

 

[Eric S]

Where did tthe Horizon BC cars go?

What do you mean? A mix of Horizon and Amfleet cars, with the 2-1 club seating, are used throughout the Midwest.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

If all you are doing is following a red cap to the train then you are not utilizing his/her capacity which allows them to help another person so you are not diminishing their ability to help someone else. It may not "smell" right but its not preventing those that need assistance from getting it.

Thank you!

Well if it doesn't smell right, why not just stop doing it?

Because it only smells funny to you because you have this ridiculous idea in your head that thousands of people aren't getting the help they need because I asked to be included in the group of people being taken out to a train.

Maybe next time I'll let him carry my computer bag just to make you happy! :angry:

No, not just me. Others have expressed their disapproval as well including your Global Moderator. And you continue to be hung up on one particular day in Boston when I'm looking at this through a larger prism across time and around the country. It's not a new phenomenon nor is it specific to AlanB and only AlanB.

 

[Ryan]

I still fail to see the problem.

In the vast majority of the cases, it doesn't deprive anyone of a needed service.

Too bad that it violates some imaginary rules that you've made up.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

I still fail to see the problem.

In the vast majority of the cases, it doesn't deprive anyone of a needed service.

Too bad that it violates some imaginary rules that you've made up.

I've made no rules up. Just calling it like I see it, and calling a spade a spade. If you see no problem here, then your work would appear to be done at this topic.

 

[JayPea]

It sounds like the situation in Seattle was one of the redcap not knowing the ins and outs of his job. I have seen redcaps in Chicago and Los Angeles taking large amounts of people on carts, not just one individual at a time. And some might have physical problems that might not be apparent. Going off-topic here, my wife had a handicapped placard that enabled her to park in handicapped parking spaces. She had no apparent mobility problems, but in fact had severe asthma, and, worse, had had severe scarring of her lungs due to blood clots that had rendered her permanently disabled from work and on oxygen part of the time, at a young age (in her 40's). I can't tell you how many times we'd go somewhere, park in a handicapped spot, and get all sorts of dark looks and nasty mutterings about being able-bodied and parking in a spot where we were depriving someone who really needed it. :angry2: :angry2: Just because she wasn't in a wheelchair didn't mean she didn't have full rights to use such spots. As a protest against sanctimony, even though I had no need of it, I used her placard after she passed away (from lung problems, in fact), until the placard expired a few months later. Should I have done that??? Absolutely not. I'm the first to admit it. But there's something about people who are sanctimonious and judgemental all the while touting themselves as paragons of virtue that irritates me to no living end.* :angry: :angry: :angry:

*Disclaimer: I'm talking about those who gave my wife and I a hard time about parking in handicapped spaces, not anyone on here.

 

[pennyk]

I have used a Redcap in Boston and in NYP to board the Maple Leaf. I could have carried my own bags each time, but chose to use a Recap to allow me to board earlier. Neither time did I deprive anyone from using the Redcap. I did not feel guilty then and i do not feel guilty now. In fact, as a very frugal person, I feel like I was helping the economy by tipping the Redcaps, which I do not really "need."

 

[Ryan]

I've made no rules up.

I must have missed the post where you cited a rule that said you couldn't use a Red Cap to get out to a train before other people.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

I've made no rules up.

I must have missed the post where you cited a rule that said you couldn't use a Red Cap to get out to a train before other people.

Nope, I've just questioned the justification for doing so. And I am equally unable to find any citation from Amtrak that supports your self-serving narrative that it's appropriate to exploit a Red Cap's services in that way.

 

[amamba]

I've made no rules up.

I must have missed the post where you cited a rule that said you couldn't use a Red Cap to get out to a train before other people.

Nope, I've just questioned the justification for doing so. And I am equally unable to find any citation from Amtrak that supports your self-serving narrative that it's appropriate to exploit a Red Cap's services in that way.

Now we are exploiting the service? Oh my. Have some hyperbole with your post.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Where did tthe Horizon BC cars go?

What do you mean? A mix of Horizon and Amfleet cars, with the 2-1 club seating, are used throughout the Midwest.

I thought that Horizon BC is "not worth it at all"?

 

[AlanB]

If all you are doing is following a red cap to the train then you are not utilizing his/her capacity which allows them to help another person so you are not diminishing their ability to help someone else. It may not "smell" right but its not preventing those that need assistance from getting it.

Thank you!

Well if it doesn't smell right, why not just stop doing it?

Because it only smells funny to you because you have this ridiculous idea in your head that thousands of people aren't getting the help they need because I asked to be included in the group of people being taken out to a train.

Maybe next time I'll let him carry my computer bag just to make you happy! :angry:

No, not just me. Others have expressed their disapproval as well including your Global Moderator. And you continue to be hung up on one particular day in Boston when I'm looking at this through a larger prism across time and around the country. It's not a new phenomenon nor is it specific to AlanB and only AlanB.

No, I've provided you with multiple experiences where I know for certain that all who wanted help were getting help. Yes, I've relayed my most recent experience more than once since it is fresh and in my mind. And it was one of 2 times where I did not hand a Redcap a suitcase to carry for me.

But again, I ride Amtrak a lot. On average 10,000 miles or more each year for the last 10 years and longer. And I'm frequently in Boston, NY, and DC, and semi-regularly in Philly & Chicago. My observations are quite wide and varied and I'm quite sure that those who want help are getting it, without question.

You've even heard from someone who is in a wheel chair, who stated that she figures that the Redcaps would figure out how to get everyone out to the train even if 100% of the people asked for help. But clearly that opinion didn't matter to you either, even though you were worried that I might well be stopping someone like Alice from getting help.

And you've heard from several other regular travelers also, all of whom have stated that the Redcaps seem to be handling the load and getting to everyone who needs help of any type.

Yet you persist and all because of your experience that seems to based on one incident in Seattle, hardly a hot bed of activity for Redcaps in the first place.

As for Bill (PRR60), he didn't exactly support your position either. He doesn't like the idea of line skipping and that's fine. I don't control his opinions and I don't want him to be a puppet. I value his opinions and expertise on many things. But we are two unique individuals and we won't always agree on everything.

But he wasn't worried, like you, that I'm depriving others of help. He just dislikes the idea of paying for priority.

 

[AlanB]

Where did tthe Horizon BC cars go?

What do you mean? A mix of Horizon and Amfleet cars, with the 2-1 club seating, are used throughout the Midwest.

I thought that Horizon BC is "not worth it at all"?

The Horizon BC Club-Dinette cars use the same exact seats from the old Metroliner First class service that are in the Amfleet Club-Dinette cars. If you've got a Club-Dinette car, then you've got the nice seats!

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

If all you are doing is following a red cap to the train then you are not utilizing his/her capacity which allows them to help another person so you are not diminishing their ability to help someone else. It may not "smell" right but its not preventing those that need assistance from getting it.

Thank you!

Well if it doesn't smell right, why not just stop doing it?

Because it only smells funny to you because you have this ridiculous idea in your head that thousands of people aren't getting the help they need because I asked to be included in the group of people being taken out to a train.

Maybe next time I'll let him carry my computer bag just to make you happy! :angry:

No, not just me. Others have expressed their disapproval as well including your Global Moderator. And you continue to be hung up on one particular day in Boston when I'm looking at this through a larger prism across time and around the country. It's not a new phenomenon nor is it specific to AlanB and only AlanB.

No, I've provided you with multiple experiences where I know for certain that all who wanted help were getting help. Yes, I've relayed my most recent experience more than once since it is fresh and in my mind. And it was one of 2 times where I did not hand a Redcap a suitcase to carry for me.

But again, I ride Amtrak a lot. On average 10,000 miles or more each year for the last 10 years and longer. And I'm frequently in Boston, NY, and DC, and semi-regularly in Philly & Chicago. My observations are quite wide and varied and I'm quite sure that those who want help are getting it, without question.

You've even heard from someone who is in a wheel chair, who stated that she figures that the Redcaps would figure out how to get everyone out to the train even if 100% of the people asked for help. But clearly that opinion didn't matter to you either, even though you were worried that I might well be stopping someone like Alice from getting help.

And you've heard from several other regular travelers also, all of whom have stated that the Redcaps seem to be handling the load and getting to everyone who needs help of any type.

Yet you persist and all because of your experience that seems to based on one incident in Seattle, hardly a hot bed of activity for Redcaps in the first place.

As for Bill (PRR60), he didn't exactly support your position either. He doesn't like the idea of line skipping and that's fine. I don't control his opinions and I don't want him to be a puppet. I value his opinions and expertise on many things. But we are two unique individuals and we won't always agree on everything.

But he wasn't worried like you that I'm depriving others of help. He just dislikes the idea of paying for priority.

My perspective is most certainly not based on one observation from Seattle the other night. As of this evening, I've accrued 18,314 TQP for this current year alone. I'm pretty sure that I am traveling as much or more than the majority of regulars on this site. So I certainly am speaking with credibility underwritten by recent, personal experience and observations. And mine don't appear to comport with yours. Like you, I am an extremely observant person who thrives on copiously cataloguing the details and nuances of the world around me.

We're not going to see eye to eye on this -- that much is clear -- so I feel good that I've spoken my peace and will leave things at that for now. This topic has run its full course and is now producing diminishing returns.

 

[AlanB]

My perspective is most certainly not based on one observation from Seattle the other night. As of this evening, I've accrued 18,314 TQP for this current year alone. I'm pretty sure that I am traveling as much or more than the majority of regulars on this site. So I certainly am speaking with credibility underwritten by recent, personal experience and observations. And mine don't appear to comport with yours. Like you, I am an extremely observant person who thrives on copiously cataloguing the details and nuances of the world around me.

We're not going to see eye to eye on this -- that much is clear -- so I feel good that I've spoken my peace and will leave things at that for now. This topic has run its full course and is now producing diminishing returns.

Well either you're at some oddball station where the Redcaps do weird things then or you are simply misreading the situation. Even in Chicago, the busiest station for Redcaps, there aren't copious amounts of people going without help if they want it. Those Redcaps always seem to make multiple trips out to the trains and there are often 6 or more all working the same train and they almost always have several people with them.

And in Chicago, my only interaction with a Redcap is at the luggage room inside the Metro Lounge, where I'm quite sure that I'm not causing someone to go without. And even if I am, then blame Amtrak. They made the decision to put that Redcap there for the express purpose of holding my bags so that I don't clutter up the lounge with them.

Finally, I'm quite sure that my asking for help in Boston which is typically the only place that I do ask for help (unless my mother isn't feeling up to lots of steps and I ask for help in NYP), isn't causing anyone to miss out. Like I've repeatedly said, they can easily handle quite a few people at a time and rarely do they have more than 7 or 8 when they take me out. And they aren't in the habit of giving up tips if they can get someone else who wants help.

So frankly I'm rather insulted that you would even think that I'd be so callous as to deprive someone in need of the services of a Redcap!