AGR Redemption Guidelines

[jis]

I am delighted to see Amtrak finally become so 21st century proactive with its customers on this issue.

now only if we could get such engagement from Amtrak about schedules on the NEC. There are several minor tweaks that would make interline connections so much more convenient between Amtrak and NJT etc. But getting either NJT or Amtrak to budge, or even acknowledge that submission of an idea, is like moving the Himalayas.

 

[calwatch]

The best thing they could do is allow the transfer in Chicago between eastbound trains and westbound trains with the 23.5 hour layover - which would eliminate the need to go to the west coast for the KCY-CBS trip.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I am delighted to see Amtrak finally become so 21st century proactive with its customers on this issue.
now only if we could get such engagement from Amtrak about schedules on the NEC. There are several minor tweaks that would make interline connections so much more convenient between Amtrak and NJT etc. But getting either NJT or Amtrak to budge, or even acknowledge that submission of an idea, is like moving the Himalayas.

They need to have some Meetings, form a Task Force and Study it for Several Years jis! :help:

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Circle trip rule stands as written...Going from central zone to western zone, then back to central zone, cannot be done on the same redemption. Same PNR or reservation, sure, but not the same point redemption. It is not a one-zone redemption even though both KCY and CBS happen to be in the same zone.

Something about this feels like AGR members are potentially being penalized for a situation they have no control over. I can understand why KCY-CBS is not a single zone trip. Thanks to the actions of ethically challenged loophole braggarts AGR was being abused. I have no problem with that change and I can certainly understand the desire to close loopholes in order to avoid intentional and repeated abuse. However, Amtrak then goes on to exclude published routings that have no other alternative due to the skeletal nature of their thin schedule and sparse route network.

That doesn't seem like they're merely preventing intentional abuse to me. It feels more like they went a step further on this one and turned a supposedly simple clarification into a backdoor points devaluation. We didn't create the schedule or the route network and we didn't draw the zone map, so why are we being penalized with extra zone fees for choosing the one and only routing that Amtrak offers? I've been told KCY-CBS is up to four zones depending on who answers the phone. Am I the only person who thinks this is a bit much?

 

[Ryan]

The best thing they could do is allow the transfer in Chicago between eastbound trains and westbound trains with the 23.5 hour layover - which would eliminate the need to go to the west coast for the KCY-CBS trip.

I asked that exact question over at FT. No answer yet, but I would guess that it would be permitted.

AGR Insider has posted in reply to several questions posted on FT.

Circle trip rule stands as written...Going from central zone to western zone, then back to central zone, cannot be done on the same redemption. Same PNR or reservation, sure, but not the same point redemption. It is not a one-zone redemption even though both KCY and CBS happen to be in the same zone.

Something about this feels like AGR members are potentially being penalized twice. It's not a single zone trip thanks to the repeated actions of ethically challenged loophole braggarts. Fair enough, I can certainly understand the desire to close loopholes in order to avoid intentional and repeated abuse. However, Amtrak then goes on to exclude published routings that have no other alternative due to their skeletal route network. That doesn't seem like any sort of abuse to me. It feels like they went one step too far, and come across as more of a points devaluation than a simple clarification intended to keep an even playing field. We didn't create the network and we certainly didn't draw the zone map, so why are we being penalized with double charging for choosing the only path Amtrak offers?

Agreed. I would offer some pushback to AGR insider over there. If nothing else, they're at least making a show of seeking and acting on member input (and member outcry got the really crappy refund policy killed).

 

[City of Miami]

Did it? Has the refund policy been killed?

Not according to the agent on the last reservation I made. She made a real point of reading the refund policy and then asking me if I understood it and further asking that I agree to it. This is the policy of 10% penalty for cancelation at any point, right? ....or voucher for 100%

 

[Ryan]

Amtrak Guest Rewards refund policy.

You can still cancel AGR awards without penalty, but only because there was such an outcry when one was proposed.

 

[crescent2]

Circle trip rule stands as written...Going from central zone to western zone, then back to central zone, cannot be done on the same redemption. Same PNR or reservation, sure, but not the same point redemption. It is not a one-zone redemption even though both KCY and CBS happen to be in the same zone.

Something about this feels like AGR members are potentially being penalized for a situation they have no control over.,,,,,,,,,However, Amtrak then goes on to exclude published routings that have no other alternative due to the skeletal nature of their thin schedule and sparse route network.

,,,,,,,,,, Am I the only person who thinks this is a bit much?

No, you're not the only one. The circle rule seems too restrictive to me, too, when the only (or even the most direct) way to get from A to B takes you through a different zone to return to the first zone. I could even understand its being a 2-zone redemption, since you do travel through a second zone, but to require an additional redemption (making it essentially 3 zones) to re-enter the first zone seems a bit much. I can also understand them not allowing a long, circuitous route taken just to maximize train miles. But when there is no other choice to get from A to B, it does seem too much.

But I'm very appreciative of the "sleeper" and "23.5 hour" rules/exceptions, and most of all, having a better idea of what to expect now!

 

[PRR 60]

Did it? Has the refund policy been killed?
Not according to the agent on the last reservation I made. She made a real point of reading the refund policy and then asking me if I understood it and further asking that I agree to it. This is the policy of 10% penalty for cancelation at any point, right? ....or voucher for 100%

The refund policy applies to paid reservations. Reservations made with AGR using points that are canceled prior to scheduled departure allow all points to be redeposited.

 

[City of Miami]

The refund policy applies to paid reservations. Reservations made with AGR using points that are canceled prior to scheduled departure allow all points to be redeposited.

Oh.......Thank you.

 

[TVRM610]

No, you're not the only one. The circle rule seems too restrictive to me, too, when the only (or even the most direct) way to get from A to B takes you through a different zone to return to the first zone. I could even understand its being a 2-zone redemption, since you do travel through a second zone, but to require an additional redemption (making it essentially 3 zones) to re-enter the first zone seems a bit much. I can also understand them not allowing a long, circuitous route taken just to maximize train miles. But when there is no other choice to get from A to B, it does seem too much.
But I'm very appreciative of the "sleeper" and "23.5 hour" rules/exceptions, and most of all, having a better idea of what to expect now!

Yes exactly. If you have to travel through 2 zones, for instance Birmingham AL to Chicago via WAS (arrow will not show an overnight in NOL as an option for this route, even though that would only be 1 zone) that should be 2 zones. Don't count the short travel from Birmingham to Atlanta as an extra zone... that's crazy.

But I'm happy for what we have too.

 

[AlanB]

You can still cancel AGR awards without penalty, but only because there was such an outcry when one was proposed.

Of course if too many people abuse the privilege, I suspect that we could well find that proposal coming back around.

 

[Ryan]

No, you're not the only one. The circle rule seems too restrictive to me, too, when the only (or even the most direct) way to get from A to B takes you through a different zone to return to the first zone. I could even understand its being a 2-zone redemption, since you do travel through a second zone, but to require an additional redemption (making it essentially 3 zones) to re-enter the first zone seems a bit much. I can also understand them not allowing a long, circuitous route taken just to maximize train miles. But when there is no other choice to get from A to B, it does seem too much.

But I'm very appreciative of the "sleeper" and "23.5 hour" rules/exceptions, and most of all, having a better idea of what to expect now!

Yes exactly. If you have to travel through 2 zones, for instance Birmingham AL to Chicago via WAS (arrow will not show an overnight in NOL as an option for this route, even though that would only be 1 zone) that should be 2 zones. Don't count the short travel from Birmingham to Atlanta as an extra zone... that's crazy.
But I'm happy for what we have too.

Paying for travel from BHM-ATL would solve that and be dirt cheap. I think that you could also book the trip through NOL as a 1 zone without too much trouble.

You can still cancel AGR awards without penalty, but only because there was such an outcry when one was proposed.

Of course if too many people abuse the privilege, I suspect that we could well find that proposal coming back around.

Absolutely. Which would be a darn shame.

 

[TVRM610]

No, you're not the only one. The circle rule seems too restrictive to me, too, when the only (or even the most direct) way to get from A to B takes you through a different zone to return to the first zone. I could even understand its being a 2-zone redemption, since you do travel through a second zone, but to require an additional redemption (making it essentially 3 zones) to re-enter the first zone seems a bit much. I can also understand them not allowing a long, circuitous route taken just to maximize train miles. But when there is no other choice to get from A to B, it does seem too much.

But I'm very appreciative of the "sleeper" and "23.5 hour" rules/exceptions, and most of all, having a better idea of what to expect now!

Yes exactly. If you have to travel through 2 zones, for instance Birmingham AL to Chicago via WAS (arrow will not show an overnight in NOL as an option for this route, even though that would only be 1 zone) that should be 2 zones. Don't count the short travel from Birmingham to Atlanta as an extra zone... that's crazy.

Paying for travel from BHM-ATL would solve that and be dirt cheap. I think that you could also book the trip through NOL as a 1 zone without too much trouble.

Ryan... that's not the point. My solution has been to pay coach for BHM to NOL actually.. and then start my journey from there. It's a day trip and the only meal I have is Lunch.. so even with my dining car bill it's usually under $50 to get to NOL but that's not the point. And I've never been able to get an agent to allow me a routing through NOL with an overnight. Maybe we will see that changed soon.

The point is if I WANTED to start my journey in BHM I should be able to travel on the Arrow approved routing and pay only for the zones that I travel through (2) instead of the zones I travel in and out of.

 

[Ryan]

Obviously, the powers that be disagree with that assessment.

I understand your point, which is why I suggested that you head over to FT and register your feedback. If enough people do, there's a precedent for them changing things.

I also pointed out that with the 23.5 hour rule (which isn't new, but now that it's been published you can know to ask for it and reference it.), you should be able to get the BHM-CHI routing through NOL as a 1 zone without having to pay for anything.

 

[crescent2]

Yeah, AGR Insider said to let them know about routing that should be shown on Arrow but isn't. I bet they will approve the routing you want now--and hopefully program it into Arrow so it does start showing there.

 

[TVRM610]

I'm hoping Crescent2!

It seems rather silly that one of the many high payed people at Amtrak can't take a week and type in station pairs to see what routes are just plain wacky.

 

[crescent2]

I'm hoping Crescent2!It seems rather silly that one of the many high payed people at Amtrak can't take a week and type in station pairs to see what routes are just plain wacky.

I agree. A lot of Amtrak's problems are probably impossible to fix with their current financial situation, but some of the aggravating ones from a customer service standpoint seem simple enough to fix. I don't understand why they don't fix them. It would benefit Amtrak as well as its customers.

AGR Insider has also posted this reply on FT to my inquiry about DEN-DAV (or EMY)-LAX. Apparently the intent is to loosen up the AGR restrictions on routes that do make sense but aren't shown.

"I don't see an issue with that, as long as you leave the next morning (within 23.5 hrs). Whether you pick EMY, DAV, SAC or MTZ is pretty similar. If our operations department decided to add a specific connection between trains 5 and 11 in the future, and chose a particular city for that overnight connection, we might have to revisit the wording of the guideline to be consistent for people who would prefer a different connecting city. I think this is one of those cases where a supervisor would see the common sense behind it and approve the booking."

Let's just hope the supervisor does! Ideally, these routes would show up on Arrow so a supervisor would not have to get involved with the redemption.

 

[AlanB]

Let's just hope the supervisor does! Ideally, these routes would show up on Arrow so a supervisor would not have to get involved with the redemption.

If the supervisor doesn't, get a name and then send a PM to AGR. They can properly instruct the agent/super and have them call you back to complete the reservation.

 

[Aaron]

I just want to post here that only a couple of days after posting a rant on that FlyerTalk thread about the lack of published routes starting from most of the Empire Builder to anywhere on the Sunset, the issue has been fixed. For the first time in probably forever (since the Coast Starlight didn't have a valid connection to the Sunset on the old schedule), there is now a published route with a guaranteed connection leaving from anywhere on the EB arriving to anywhere on the SL/TE. The routes were always published going from the SL/TE to the EB, it's just there was no corresponding return route from any station on the EB east of Whitefish to anywhere on the SL/TE.

I'm amazed at the speed with which this was solved.

Now, the holes have been filled, including routing from CHI on the EB, down the CS, and over the SL to wherever. You can make a nice two zone trip CHI-ELP by picking the right day so that you get this routing. Pick the wrong day and you'll get a straight shot down to SAS and connection to the SL. But, pick the right day and it won't connect there because of the thrice-a-week Sunset, and you get the long way instead.

 

[yarrow]

I just want to post here that only a couple of days after posting a rant on that FlyerTalk thread about the lack of published routes starting from most of the Empire Builder to anywhere on the Sunset, the issue has been fixed. For the first time in probably forever (since the Coast Starlight didn't have a valid connection to the Sunset on the old schedule), there is now a published route with a guaranteed connection leaving from anywhere on the EB arriving to anywhere on the SL/TE. The routes were always published going from the SL/TE to the EB, it's just there was no corresponding return route from any station on the EB east of Whitefish to anywhere on the SL/TE.
I'm amazed at the speed with which this was solved.

Now, the holes have been filled, including routing from CHI on the EB, down the CS, and over the SL to wherever. You can make a nice two zone trip CHI-ELP by picking the right day so that you get this routing. Pick the wrong day and you'll get a straight shot down to SAS and connection to the SL. But, pick the right day and it won't connect there because of the thrice-a-week Sunset, and you get the long way instead.

that is great but what a tight connection, one hour, between cs and sl

 

[crescent2]

I've thought about adding the SL and then the Crescent to my "someday" CZ/CS trip, to avoid having to fly home. But that one-hour connection, at the end of a long CS route, seems very iffy to me. How brave does one need to be to book that?

 

[yarrow]

I've thought about adding the SL and then the Crescent to my "someday" CZ/CS trip, to avoid having to fly home. But that one-hour connection, at the end of a long CS route, seems very iffy to me. How brave does one need to be to book that?

the question is, what would amtrak do if it is missed? put you up in la until the next sl?

 

[Ryan]

I'm sure they do what they could to ensure that didn't happen - either run a bus to catch up (maybe even pulling you off the CS early) or holding the SL if it's going to be close.

But yeah, if they can't make it work, it's "vacation in LA on Amtrak".

 

[tomfuller]

I've thought about adding the SL and then the Crescent to my "someday" CZ/CS trip, to avoid having to fly home. But that one-hour connection, at the end of a long CS route, seems very iffy to me. How brave does one need to be to book that?

the question is, what would amtrak do if it is missed? put you up in la until the next sl?

The "safe" way to do this is to take the CS south only to Sacramento and then take the short Amtrak bus trip to Stockton, the San Joaquin to Bakersfield and the longer bus trip Bakersfield to LAX. You get into LAX by 7PM instead of 9PM or after.

You do miss the sunset near Santa Barbara. You do get a couple hours in Sacramento to get breakfast and see the Capitol grounds. Too bad the California Railroad Museum doesn't open until 11AM.