OH I Wish There Was a Shortcut to Atlanta!

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Up until April 30, 1971, Central of Georgia ran a very convenient train between Atlanta and Savanah and vv. The eastbound train departed Atlanta at 6PM and arrived in Savannah at midnight. The westbound train left Savannah in the early morning and arrived Atlanta in the early afternoon. It was perfect for weekend getaways. My last trip on the Nancy Hanks II was in February, 1971. Not only was there good patronage from Atlanta to Savannah, but also to the small towns in between. The State of Georgia was given the option of help to subsidize the train after May 1, 1971 but decline. Ironically, the State of Illinois was given the option of subsidizing the Illinois Zephyr at the same time along with a few other local Illinois train. The Illinois Zephyr still operates with other state supported trains in Illinois. Georgia has talked about re-starting service from Atlanta to Savannah, but that's it.
 
We need a "shortcut" in terms of time, as well. I live in Cary, NC. To get to Atlanta, I would need to take a train (Piedmont, Carolinian) to either Greensboro, NC, or Charlotte, NC, and then wait for several hours to change to the Crescent, in the wee hours of the night. It's not a practical connection at all.

jb
 
I'd be in favor of both of those routes.

Right now, the only direction you can go from Florida on Amtrak is north. The first station going north from Florida that has any transfer possibility in any other direction would be the Silver Star in Raleigh and that doesn't get you anywhere outside of the state of North Carolina. Other than that, you're looking at Alexandria, VA for the Crescent and Washington, DC for the Capitol Limited. Florida is one of the most popular travel destination states in the country (might even be #1). People (especially those in the south) shouldn't have to go to the DC area just to get there.
 
To be pedantic, the first station with transfer possibility is actually Car NC, not Raleigh.

The next is Petersburg VA for Norfolk, then Richmond VA for Newport News VA, and Charlottesville (Crescent, Cardinal) via Thruway bus. And then Alexandria VA followed by Washington DC.

If our little project down south succeeds, within the next few years JAX will become the first transfer point for the Gulf Coast. So far chances are looking real good.
 
jphjaxfl said:
Up until April 30, 1971, Central of Georgia ran a very convenient train between Atlanta and Savanah and vv. The eastbound train departed Atlanta at 6PM and arrived in Savannah at midnight. The westbound train left Savannah in the early morning and arrived Atlanta in the early afternoon. It was perfect for weekend getaways. My last trip on the Nancy Hanks II was in February, 1971. Not only was there good patronage from Atlanta to Savannah, but also to the small towns in between. The State of Georgia was given the option of help to subsidize the train after May 1, 1971 but decline. Ironically, the State of Illinois was given the option of subsidizing the Illinois Zephyr at the same time along with a few other local Illinois train. The Illinois Zephyr still operates with other state supported trains in Illinois. Georgia has talked about re-starting service from Atlanta to Savannah, but that's it.
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acelafan said:
jphjaxfl said:
Georgia has talked about re-starting service from Atlanta to Savannah, but that's it.
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And sadly, Georgia is all talk and no action. The restored Gulf Coast service would be amazing - I hope it happens.
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Sadly, the route of the Nancy Hanks II is very busy with Norfolk Southern traffic. The timetable shows the trip in 5:40. By car, it's listed at 3:30. That's a big disparity, but not horrible. I generally allow 4 - 4 1/2 hours myself when the kids are with me for traffic, stops, etc.

The other sad part is that almost none of the towns on the original route have any commercial passenger significance. except Macon.

Now, if they were to create an all new ROW SAV-MAC-ATL, that would be Suh-WEET! But don't think they'd get payback in 100 years...

passengertr2.jpg
 
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What is the holdup on Amtrak connecting bus service between Atlanta and Savannah? That seems like a natural solution. Is the Atlanta station the issue, or poor connection times with the Crescent and the Star/Meteor?
 
The ATL problem is no side street parking for Thruway buses. There is only 7 or 8 autp parking spaces at the station and the rest of auto parking is not accessible to buses . When various posters say the ATL sucks that is an example of understatement. But the ATL politics are bad and terrible too.
 
Carolina Special said:
What is the holdup on Amtrak connecting bus service between Atlanta and Savannah? That seems like a natural solution. Is the Atlanta station the issue, or poor connection times with the Crescent and the Star/Meteor?
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There are definitely issues with ATL station that make Thruway service difficult (if not impossible). But I'd also note that Amtrak has been extremely slow to institute Thruway services elsewhere around their network.
 
I am happy that the proposed New Orleans to Florida service is likely to happen, but I would still find it much more useful if Chicago to Florida service were reinstated. That route could pass through so many major cities that the entire route could likely support corridor service. While there are mid sized cities, the only major city between WAS and JAX is Raleigh. There are no major cities between JAX and NOL. The Chicago to Florida route would give service to the major cities of Louisville and Nashville, while also connecting the major markets of Chicago, Indianapolis, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando, and Tampa/Miami. As I previously stated, I support the Gulf Coast service but New Orleans, Gulfport, Biloxi, Mobile, Pensacola, and Tallahassee can not match up to Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, and Macon. This route would have the highest density over the entire route of any I can think of. I realize to make this successful significant investment would be required, but I think it would be the most useful of any new route.
 
I don't disagree about the population density on the Chicago-Florida route, but the issue there is geography, with the mountains in the way. Trains don't operate well with grades and curves, and the investment required to make a suitably level route would be staggering IMO.

The proposed CONO extension isn't perfect either, because there is a bay to go around because nobody will pay to bridge it, but at least the terrain is reasonably flat on the route. That seems a better bet to me given current resources.
 
Keep in mind that at this point there is no actual concrete funding plan for the Gulf Coast route. There have been studies of the route and there does seem to be a fair amount of political support lining up behind it which puts it in a better position than many other proposals, but until we see actual funding it is still just another unfunded plan.

Also, I'd caution against simply adding up the population served by one route or another and using that as your comparison - longer routes with quite often serve greater population but that does not mean it is definitely a better prospect than a shorter route that may be less costly to implement.
 
As it stands, it's a pain in the buttocks to get to/from Greyhound from the Amtrak station. MARTA doesn't get close enough to Amtrak. It's only about a $10 Uber ride...
 
Eric S said:
Keep in mind that at this point there is no actual concrete funding plan for the Gulf Coast route. There have been studies of the route and there does seem to be a fair amount of political support lining up behind it which puts it in a better position than many other proposals, but until we see actual funding it is still just another unfunded plan.
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As it looks, Amtrak may be given a specific pot of funding allocated for this specific route in the near future in some federal appropriation, with some matching funds coming from various sources associated with the route. Sorta kinda like NEC is given a specific pot of money allocated to it.

It also looks like most likely it will be an extension of the CONO to Orlando, with equipment services at Sanford.

For this to succeed, it will be imperative that this new service provide good connection to at least one, if not both of the Silvers at JAX and/or Orlando for travel further south. I suppose the connection at JAX for travel north will not be as good, and will involve a long wait at JAX or ORL.

Also, I'd caution against simply adding up the population served by one route or another and using that as your comparison - longer routes with quite often serve greater population but that does not mean it is definitely a better prospect than a shorter route that may be less costly to implement.
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That is very true.
 
jis said:
Eric S said:
Keep in mind that at this point there is no actual concrete funding plan for the Gulf Coast route.
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As it looks, Amtrak may be given a specific pot of funding allocated for this specific route in the near future in some federal appropriations.

...

For this to succeed, it will be imperative that this new service provide good connection to at least one, if not both of the Silvers at JAX and/or Orlando ...
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There's also a sweet deal from Amtrak. Like the way the Amtrak Virginia trains get credited with the full fares of all originating/terminating Virginia passengers, the CONO/Gulf Coaster will get credited with the full revenue of passengers originating/terminating on its route, even if they ride to Montreal or Seattle, LOL. That shows how much Amtrak wants to do this and make this train work.

The CONO/Gulfcoaster will have a morning stop in Jacksonville, before heading down to Orlando, where you can again connect to Miami. The NB connections are not so good, because the Meteor, Star, and the CONO/Gulfcoaster are scheduled late day out of Orlando. (Here's an opportunity for a travel agent to offer a bus tour of Jacksonville, or even to historic and picturesque St Augustine, to fill the long wait time.)

I'm hoping the CONO/Gulfcoaster will be quickly successful. Looks like a perfect place to overlay a corridor train with a morning departure Jacksonville-Tallahassee, afternoon return. Maybe include Orlando in that schedule. But the point would be to provide same-day round trips to/from Tallahassee, for the many students, pols, lobbyists, n sports fans there.

Meanwhile the CONO/Gulfcoaster will offer a one-seat ride Florida-CHI, for those riders who don't want to transfer in D.C. It's not a restored Floridian. Congress would have fund that. But Amtrak on its own is going to provide a good alternative to the present schedules for Midwest-Florida patrons.
 
In my lifetime I'd love to see a Midwest to Florida train (with a stop in Atlanta). Most likely a Chicago to Florida train to provide the largest market feeder. As we all know, this used to exist. An Auto Train would be fantastic. At least get it in place by the time I consider retiring (a LONG time from now lol. At least more than 3 decades from now).
 
Carolina Special said:
I don't disagree about the population density on the Chicago-Florida route, but the issue there is geography, with the mountains in the way. Trains don't operate well with grades and curves, and the investment required to make a suitably level route would be staggering IMO.

The proposed CONO extension isn't perfect either, because there is a bay to go around because nobody will pay to bridge it, but at least the terrain is reasonably flat on the route. That seems a better bet to me given current resources.
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Other trains - look at the California Zephyr in Colorado - seem to be able to negotiate mountain grades and curves, so what's the difference for Chicago to Florida? That's almost a red herring; Indeed, the route would be relatively gentle compared to the western mountains.

We don't need to be making excuses for why there isn't passenger rail service along an obvious route, rather we need to be advocating for such service. The problem isn't geography or equipment or even necessarily funding (though it has to come from somewhere, of course) but rather political.
 
The problem with funding is that Amtrak now requires State funding to add new Amtrak routes. And I personally know that my state Tennessee apparently is not will to fund additional Amtrak service nor much public transit at all. I don't think Kentucky or Georgia are any more receptive. I know Democratic congressmen have advocated for this service in prior years but have apparently given up. With Republicans completely in control in Tennessee there is zero political backing for this Amtrak service.
 
Is the title of this thread supposed to be read to the tune of the "Oscar Mayer" song? Because that's how I read it every time it pops up in my feed.
 
A Voice said:
Carolina Special said:
I don't disagree about the population density on the Chicago-Florida route, but the issue there is geography, with the mountains in the way. Trains don't operate well with grades and curves, and the investment required to make a suitably level route would be staggering IMO.

The proposed CONO extension isn't perfect either, because there is a bay to go around because nobody will pay to bridge it, but at least the terrain is reasonably flat on the route. That seems a better bet to me given current resources.
Click to expand...
Other trains - look at the California Zephyr in Colorado - seem to be able to negotiate mountain grades and curves, so what's the difference for Chicago to Florida? That's almost a red herring; Indeed, the route would be relatively gentle compared to the western mountains.

We don't need to be making excuses for why there isn't passenger rail service along an obvious route, rather we need to be advocating for such service. The problem isn't geography or equipment or even necessarily funding (though it has to come from somewhere, of course) but rather political.
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I'm not sure why they think new tracks are needed, there were at least three routes independent of each other before Amtrak, and the freight trains still roll on at least one if not two or all three!
 
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