keelhauled
OBS Chief
There was no mention in the original announcement of any changes to coach food service or the cafe car, so I don't know what the point is of creating speculation that doesn't even have a tangential connection to reality.
Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL
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cpotisch
Engineer
It does. However it's unstaffed, and passengers get their food from the lounge end of the CCC.
crescent-zephyr
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It's a legit question. Will 1 LSA serve as the host for the "Sleeper Lounge" and the cafe attrndant? Or will a second LSA be added to the train and staff the cafe of the SSL?
The end result will be a cafe window with the standard cafe menu, but it's location is currently in question. It seems odd that you would remove staff to save money and then add a staff member (another LSA), but hey this is Amtrak!
Well, I just knew I'd get a ration of **** for asking (Post #551 and its "Like This") but for someone who doesn't make a career of riding Amtrak (about every 2 years for me and never on the CL) I asked simply because I didn't know and couldn't find the answer with any search engine.
My thanks to cpotisch and crescent-Zephyr for the meaningful and non-snarky replies.
My thanks to cpotisch and crescent-Zephyr for the meaningful and non-snarky replies.
cpotisch
Engineer
There is something to be said for making the entire Sleeper Lounge car exclusive to sleeper pax, including the snack counter end. And they're getting rid of all the waiters in the CCC, so even if they're is now one more LSA, it's still fewer staff overall.
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crescent-zephyr
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Oh yeah, it could certainly go either way. The "diner" portion would be the sleeper lounge, even if the cafe window was still open to all passebfers.
But yes, having the cafe window become the "private bar" for the sleeper passengers could be very classy if done right.
But yes, having the cafe window become the "private bar" for the sleeper passengers could be very classy if done right.
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I suspect that since the LSA will have to be active in helping the SCAs with meals, plus provide drink service, the LSA would NOT have time to run the Cafe. I expect the Cafe would return to the lower level of the SSL. Until June 1, no one knows, plus after a few days, I would expect some quick corrections, so maybe it is best to see where everything is on July 1st or August 1st.
Ryan
Court Jester
Answered aaaaaallllllllllllll the way back on page two.
Sleeper lounge will be exclusive. Other car will be an SSL. One LSA between them.
Sleeper lounge will be exclusive. Other car will be an SSL. One LSA between them.
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One LSA working two cars?? I don't see that lasting long. You have to reduce the hours the cafe is open.
crescent-zephyr
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Ryan, that post seems to read the car with the asterisk is staffed with a LSA. Were you meaning staffed with 1 LSA each?
I read that to mean there would be one LSA per car, for a total of two LSAs onboard each of the consists.
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jis
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Me too. It is definitely quite ambiguous. I find it hard to believe that a single LSA can practically serve two cars that are separated from each other by additional cars in between. That is why I chose the more believable interpretation of one LSA per car.
Ryan
Court Jester
Reading it again, I think that you're probably right, one LSA in each car makes far more sense.
Does this mean that the lounge end of the CCC serves from this menu... https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/menus/national/National-CafeCar-Menu-Amtrak-0617.pdf ...and that warm food of some sort may actually available to sleeper car passengers on the CL for breakfast and dinner after 1 June 2018 if paid for? Just like coach passengers?
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tommylicious
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Warmth implies energy consumption and labor, both of which act contrariwise to cost minimization. Everything will be cold-- well, ambient room temperature more likely.
cpotisch
Engineer
I highly doubt they'll be taking away the heated options from the cafe cars any time soon.
And just because management has been making some questionable cost cutting decisions doesn't mean they are deliberately coming up with inherently terrible ideas, just to give riders food poisoning, as you seem to be suggesting lately.
There are significant expenditures involved in offering a full, hot meal served by a waiter in the dining car. It costs virtually nothing to have the snack bar attendant microwave a pizza.
keelhauled
OBS Chief
Why don't we return to the evidence at hand, which can be found in the FIRST and SECOND pages of this topic. Exhibit A: Amtrak's press release, which says repeatedly that it refers to sleeping car passengers and the diner. No reference, either explicit or implied, is made to coach passengers or the existing cafe menu. Exhibit B: Knightrail's post, already quoted by Ryan, which says that conventional cafe cars will be equipped AND manned. Can someone please explain to me where the idea that the cafe car is getting changed or eliminated came from?
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cpotisch
Engineer
Nowhere. That's my point.
I think it comes from the "slippery slope" theory. When some change happens that we find distasteful, we expect more bad things to happen, even more distasteful than the original changes, even though there is not one shred of evidence to back those suspicions up. I personally like to stick with what I know to be true than engage in wild hyperbole about what might happen, but that's just me I guess.
Ryan
Court Jester
You and me both.
That's what makes us both official Amtrak Apologists, or Corporate Shills, or something.
That's what makes us both official Amtrak Apologists, or Corporate Shills, or something.
keelhauled
OBS Chief
I wish I was a shill. It'd be nice to have the flow of money go from Amtrak to me for once.
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I thought the only F&B change June 1st is changing all meals to a cold fresh pre-prepared meal, elimination of all Dining Car staff except the LSA who will be in the Sleeper Lounge, formerly the Dining Car. True, there are two different type of Dining Cars involved, but there was no mentioned change to the Cafe segment.
cpotisch
Engineer
The only likely change for cafe service stemming directly from “Fresh Choices” is the possible operation of the snack bar out of the SSL on the CL, rather than the CCC. Other than that, there doesn’t seem to be much indication whatsoever that anything will on that front.
neroden
Engineer
So, this is another example of Amtrak not actually understanding the economics of their own business.
To anyone who's dug through the numbers, it is indisputable that the LSL performs better financially by any measure (ridership, revenue, marginal profit, whatever you like) than any Empire Service train.
This should ring a bell in the mind of a thoughtful railroad executive, but apparently it hasn't. The LSL gets attacked with hostile schedule changes, service quality cuts, and gets the dregs of the equipment, in what seems like an attempt to discourage service. Politicians have had to intervene to get Amtrak to make *profitable* moves like restoring the through Boston cars The only improvement I can remember in years is the business class section. The Performance Improvement Plan is ignored completely despite giving some very sound advice (including "restore the earlier departure from Chicago", and "the LSL has the most coach passengers buying food in the dining car; upgrade the cafe car offerings").
I could run Amtrak better than Mr. Anderson simply because I'm capable of reading reports published in the past, and apparently he isn't.
Amtrak isn't being run like a business right now. I know that phrase is popular, but a real business pays attention to revenue generation, not just to cost-cutting.
To anyone who's dug through the numbers, it is indisputable that the LSL performs better financially by any measure (ridership, revenue, marginal profit, whatever you like) than any Empire Service train.
This should ring a bell in the mind of a thoughtful railroad executive, but apparently it hasn't. The LSL gets attacked with hostile schedule changes, service quality cuts, and gets the dregs of the equipment, in what seems like an attempt to discourage service. Politicians have had to intervene to get Amtrak to make *profitable* moves like restoring the through Boston cars The only improvement I can remember in years is the business class section. The Performance Improvement Plan is ignored completely despite giving some very sound advice (including "restore the earlier departure from Chicago", and "the LSL has the most coach passengers buying food in the dining car; upgrade the cafe car offerings").
I could run Amtrak better than Mr. Anderson simply because I'm capable of reading reports published in the past, and apparently he isn't.
Amtrak isn't being run like a business right now. I know that phrase is popular, but a real business pays attention to revenue generation, not just to cost-cutting.
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In business, if you can improve your efficiency, productivity, your customer satisfaction is rising which should equate to additional revenue which should result in additional profit, reducing the loss amount or creating a profit.
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