Elimination of diners on western Amtrak long distance trains?

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JoeBas said:
cocojacoby said:
What's in the Kosher meal?
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None of this is Kosher.
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Yep, yet another failure with the new system.

This seems to be the response Amtrak has been sending back to people who ask about any special menu under the new system:

Dear <redacted>,

Thank you for your comments regarding our Contemporary Dining service on the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited routes. Unfortunately, the new dining service does not have a special menu. Please be assured that customer comments will play an important role in how we offer our service and we will take your valuable feedback into consideration as we make future changes to the dining experience on our trains. Thank you for taking the time to write to us and we hope to see you on board soon.

Once again, thank you for contacting us.

Sincerely,

Samir B.

Amtrak Customer Relations
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ParanoidAndroid said:
I don't think many here have been to Japan, but there's a technology there in warming up boxed meals. I think it involves some exothermic reaction with Calcium Oxide (I forget exactly). Anyway, you pull a string, the two substances come together in a separate compartment under the food, they react and form heat, and it heats up your food! I heard one of the substances was illegal here, but if that can be changed, that'd be a good option to getting a hot, scrumptious meal in a box; however high quality the cold box meals are, it's just not the same experience as a hot meal.
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Gotta look into that.

If such meals and heating systems would ever be available to consumers from domestic sources it might allow pax to bring their own heatable food on board too. If not heavy like military MREs, it would even revolutionize backpacking!
 
Nice to think of a reusable thali plate on the Indian trains. I was shocked to see the train staff just throwing the bags of used plastic waste out of the doors as the trains sped along!

I had thought that last years trip to India might be my last, but the masala chai is once again sending me it's siren call...
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Ed.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
cpotisch said:
crescent-zephyr said:
Wouldn't the vegan wrap be a kosher meal?
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Not if it wasn't certified as such and isn't kept properly separated from other non-Kosher ingredients and meals.
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Ah interesting. So none of the former Amtrak meals were kosher either?

Did amtrak used to provide kosher meals on LD trains and now it does not on the CL / LSL?
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Yes they did (do), and vegan as well ...

https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/meals-dining/special-menus-special-dietary-requirements.html
 
crescent-zephyr said:
cpotisch said:
crescent-zephyr said:
Wouldn't the vegan wrap be a kosher meal?
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Not if it wasn't certified as such and isn't kept properly separated from other non-Kosher ingredients and meals.
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Ah interesting. So none of the former Amtrak meals were kosher either?

Did amtrak used to provide kosher meals on LD trains and now it does not on the CL / LSL?
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There were and are certified Kosher options. It probably wouldn't be too hard to have a Kosher certified option on the CL and LSL (even if it's just by properly separating and preparing the Vegan Wrap), but at the moment, anyone who really keeps Kosher will not be able to eat from this menu.
 
Sorry... Im still confused. There were no kosher items on the previous menu. So what's the complaint?

Will Amtrak still provide kosher meals upon request to passengers on the CL / LSL?
 
crescent-zephyr said:
Sorry... Im still confused. There were no kosher items on the previous menu. So what's the complaint?

Will Amtrak still provide kosher meals upon request to passengers on the CL / LSL?
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I'm pretty sure they did offer kosher meals on request before. They are not doing that on the CL and LSL now.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
For me, the only problem is the lack of choosing sides and desserts. I don't typically eat beef (preference), and I can't have gluten right now (necessity). So I would like to order the chicken salad but I can't eat the pasta salad or the cheesecake. But if i could order the chicken salad with the potato salad or 3 bean salad and a gluten free dessert (ice cream please!) I would be pretty content.
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I will be willing to trade my (beef-free, gluten-free) broccoli for your cheesecake.
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crescent-zephyr said:
Sorry... Im still confused. There were no kosher items on the previous menu. So what's the complaint?

Will Amtrak still provide kosher meals upon request to passengers on the CL / LSL?
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Yes, they did and in fact, still show that on their website. Does that apply to the CL/SLS, don't know.

Kosher Meals
Kosher meals are prepared under rabbinical supervision and sealed until delivered to the passenger. Passover kosher meals will be served in lieu of regular kosher meals throughout the Passover period. Customers must call in advance to reserve.
https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/meals-dining/special-menus-special-dietary-requirements.html
 
I'm sorry, but the cold boxed meals that could be served on future Amtrak western long distance trains would be a disaster, in my opinion. I can't imagine eating poor food like that for several days on end. One of the best experiences in long distance train travel is sitting in the diner and engaging other passengers in conversation. I've met some great people over the years. To take this away would corrupt the very idea of long distance train travel.

Just the other day I met with a couple to discuss taking a future trip on the Coast Starlight. They knew I traveled by train a great deal and wanted to pick my brain. They are enthused about booking a trip on a sleeper, as well as eating in the diner. If I knew they were going to be served pre-packaged meals in boxes, the romance and fun of the trip would definitely be reduced. They probably wouldn't go.

My wife and I almost always travel together in a roomette when taking the train. The dining experience has always been a highlight. I see the box meals as a disaster -- especially breakfast. I have to watch my carbs and my wife has to be gluten free, which means the muffin, banana bread and overly-sweet yogurt would not be eaten. No entrée salad offerings at lunch would be bad for both of us. Lack of seafood at dinner is also a non-starter.

Dining cars never paid for themselves, even in the glory days of passenger trains. They were used as loss leaders to make the travel experience better and to attract riders. Expecting bean counters to think creatively and outside the box is rare indeed.
 
Disaster seems like a strong word.

Nothing is keeping you from meeting fellow passengers in the "sleeper lounge" or the SSL car. If you want to share a meal with them, nothing is stopping you from that either.

I agree the food needs improvements... But I feel there are options for that with the new reduced staff set up. For example - the LSA has pre-made hot food items available. Scrambled eggs, bacon, sausage, breakfast potatoes, etc. Basically a portion controlled Hampton inn breakfast. The breakfast box could remain an option as well. If 1 breakfast attendant can keep up with an entire hampton inn (which holds more people than 2 supeliner sleepers!) surely an LSA can handle a few hot items.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
I agree the food needs improvements... But I feel there are options for that with the new reduced staff set up. For example - the LSA has pre-made hot food items available. Scrambled eggs, bacon, sausage, breakfast potatoes, etc. Basically a portion controlled Hampton inn breakfast. The breakfast box could remain an option as well. If 1 breakfast attendant can keep up with an entire hampton inn (which holds more people than 2 supeliner sleepers!) surely an LSA can handle a few hot items.
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At Hampton Inn, there is zero expectation that Food and Beverage operations will turn a direct profit. They are loss leaders to improve the overall hotel stay experience.

Ainamkartma
 
I'm not sure what point you were trying to make?

If Amtrak wants to Silver Star all the trains (take the diner off completely) they can. It seems that amtrak is trying to provide a decent food product (everyone that has tried the box food says the quality is high), while eliminating the extra dining car employees.

I was throwing out an option of how to provide a better breakfast service, without adding extra employees.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
Disaster seems like a strong word.

Nothing is keeping you from meeting fellow passengers in the "sleeper lounge" or the SSL car. If you want to share a meal with them, nothing is stopping you from that either.
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Lake Shore Limited doesn't have an SSL. Now that coach passengers have to eat in the cafe, it will be crammed full of people. Remember, the Lake Shore has five or more coaches in its typical configuration (about 300 seats), and the cafe consists of one half of one AmCan. I imagine that sleeper pax will find it to be virtually impossible to get space in the cafe car, to talk with other passengers. And because the sleeper lounge is not just for dining, passengers will likely be chilling in it throughout the day, which leaves that much less space for people who just want to sit down and have a meal.
 
Actually, I have often wondered, how what proportion of Coach passengers actually sit in the cafe while consuming their food. In all my days of traveling by Coach, when I was not rich enough to be able to afford Sleepers in any way, shape or form, as I recall, I seldom sat in the Cafe to eat. Mostly it was at my seat. Now I could be an odd one. But somehow I don't think so. I am yet to see an over crowded lounge even on the Silver Star!

So I am not willing to buy the argument about Lounge crowding by Coach passengers just on its face value. It would be nice to see some real statistics.
 
jis said:
But somehow I don't think so. I am yet to see an over crowded lounge even on the Silver Star!
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Interesting, because I see a full lounge almost every time I ride the Meteor. Though the Meteor does run with one or two more coaches than the Star...

I would also note that the LSL has a very high coach passenger diner utilization rate, so with the loss of the diner(-lite), you might have a larger number of coach passengers desiring a sit-down meal in the cafe, than on other routes.
 
jis said:
I am yet to see an over crowded lounge even on the Silver Star!
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The lounge was crowded on the Silver Star on Friday. The train was full of Boy Scouts traveling from Miami to Raleigh to go to camp for a week. Half of the lounge was full of Boy Scouts and the other half was full of other passengers. I traveled from Miami to Orlando.
 
I don't disbelieve any of you. I just wonder if there is any statistics on it. Single observations are anecdotes. However, in the absence of any systematic data collection they have to substitute as proxy.

The other interesting question is, how many use the Lounge to ... well... just lounge around, and how many use it to actually eat. Afterall, since all Coach passengers even on the LSL do not eat in the Diner, those that don't, must eat somewhere. As we all know, some proportion of Sleeper passengers also do not eat in the Diner (or even in the Lounge) since they are known to eat in their rooms. Again, proportions? I have no idea.

Personally, on the Star when traveling in the Sleeper, I always eat in my room, never in the Lounge. There is absolutely nothing appealing in an Amtube Lounge to cause me to move there to eat.
 
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jis said:
There is absolutely nothing appealing in an Amtube Lounge to cause me to move there to eat.
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So true! If there is a silver lining in all this, it’s that sleeper passengers in the east will finally have a decent lounge. The more traditional dimensions of the Viewliners and the double windows almost remind of Seaboard’s Sunroom sleeper lounges. But, I suspect the attendant will not be serving you at your seat in a frosted glass of your favorite beverage. Or as Trains’ former editor, David Morgan, used to call it, ‘ a glass of gin and clickety-clack.’
 
jis said:
There is absolutely nothing appealing in an Amtube Lounge to cause me to move there to eat.
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Yeah, the AmCafes are possibly the most dreary and closed in cars Amtrak has ever run. In my opinion, the only possible reason someone would choose to spend time in an AmCan compared to say a roomette would be the large tables and booths, which can be good if you want to play a board game or get some work done. In any other case, I do my best to keep out of those tubes.
 

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