California Zephyr bedroom availability

[darien-l]

Hi all!

I have a couple of questions for the knowledgeable members of this board. Basically, I have a wagonload of AGR points, and I promised my parents that I'd get them a train trip from New York to Denver in a bedroom. This was back in early June, and I figured that 3+ months was enough time to arrange this trip. However, when I checked availability, I found that bedrooms on the California Zephyr were showing as sold out for almost all dates in September. My parents are looking to depart on September 8, with a flexibility of a day or two, and as I checked date after date I saw the same thing: sold out, sold out, sold out. I was convinced that it was some kind of system glitch, or that the full inventory wasn't opened up for some reason, so I decided to wait. I've been waiting for over a month now, and the situation hasn't improved.

So the questions I have now are as follows: Is it typical for all bedrooms on the Zephyr to sell out months in advance, even CHI-DEN (not going through the scenic Rockies)? If it's not typical, what's going on here? How likely is it that bedrooms will open up closer to departure date? Finally, if I redeem the Bedroom award, is there a chance Amtrak will allow me to substitute a Family Bedroom for a Bedroom on the Zephyr (there is plenty of bedroom availability on the first segment of the trip NYP-CHI on Lakeshore Limited)? Otherwise, it would seem like a waste to get the Bedroom award and have them travel in a Roomette for half of their trip.

Thanks!

 

[MrFSS]

Hi all!
I have a couple of questions for the knowledgeable members of this board. Basically, I have a wagonload of AGR points, and I promised my parents that I'd get them a train trip from New York to Denver in a bedroom. This was back in early June, and I figured that 3+ months was enough time to arrange this trip. However, when I checked availability, I found that bedrooms on the California Zephyr were showing as sold out for almost all dates in September. My parents are looking to depart on September 8, with a flexibility of a day or two, and as I checked date after date I saw the same thing: sold out, sold out, sold out. I was convinced that it was some kind of system glitch, or that the full inventory wasn't opened up for some reason, so I decided to wait. I've been waiting for over a month now, and the situation hasn't improved.

So the questions I have now are as follows: Is it typical for all bedrooms on the Zephyr to sell out months in advance, even CHI-DEN (not going through the scenic Rockies)? If it's not typical, what's going on here? How likely is it that bedrooms will open up closer to departure date? Finally, if I redeem the Bedroom award, is there a chance Amtrak will allow me to substitute a Family Bedroom for a Bedroom on the Zephyr (there is plenty of bedroom availability on the first segment of the trip NYP-CHI on Lakeshore Limited)? Otherwise, it would seem like a waste to get the Bedroom award and have them travel in a Roomette for half of their trip.

Thanks!

I checked a few dates around 9/8, too and they are all sold out. Plus, the roomettes look to be in the highest bucket price, so there probably aren't many of those left, either.
You might try calling Amtrak reservations to confirm, but it sure appears they are all sold out.

But remember, no one takes trains according to a lot of people, so this shows we need more cars and more trains.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Yeah...no one takes trains! :lol: Shoulda seen the CZ the last 5 days. My party of 4 got to experience jam packed trains (which I'm happy for), really full stations (GSC and DEN) the #5 and #6 come through GSC during the same hour. On the #6 we were seated in the lower level in coach. At first I was a bit "cautious" about this, but its the only place they had 4 seats together at. In the long run, it was the first (and maybe the last...God Willing) that I sat in the handicapped seating. Personally, it was the most quiet ride, no foot traffic, close to the bathrooms one get get. Easy to de-train, didn't have to lug our luggage upstairs. Remember though, no one takes trains anymore! You may have waited too long for your folks, can you try October? October has the CZ sometimes having "hot deals", so that to me means the ridership may fall just a tad during the fall. Remember...no one takes trains anymore!

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies. Out of curiousity, I decided to check bedroom availability on CZ CHI-DEN for the whole month of September. Here are the results:

1-Sep AVAILABLE

2-Sep SOLD OUT

3-Sep SOLD OUT

4-Sep SOLD OUT

5-Sep SOLD OUT

6-Sep AVAILABLE

7-Sep SOLD OUT

8-Sep SOLD OUT

9-Sep SOLD OUT

10-Sep SOLD OUT

11-Sep SOLD OUT

12-Sep SOLD OUT

13-Sep AVAILABLE

14-Sep SOLD OUT

15-Sep SOLD OUT

16-Sep SOLD OUT

17-Sep SOLD OUT

18-Sep SOLD OUT

19-Sep SOLD OUT

20-Sep SOLD OUT

21-Sep SOLD OUT

22-Sep SOLD OUT

23-Sep SOLD OUT

24-Sep SOLD OUT

25-Sep SOLD OUT

26-Sep AVAILABLE

27-Sep SOLD OUT

28-Sep SOLD OUT

29-Sep AVAILABLE

30-Sep AVAILABLE

Wow. I don't have a whole lot of experience with bedrooms on Amtrak, so I have to ask, is this typical, or am I just very unlucky?

 

[gswager]

You're most likely to be unlucky. It would be wise to book in at least 6 months in advance for the bedroom.

 

[gyuri_ft]

But remember, no one takes trains according to a lot of people, so this shows we need more cars and more trains.

Went June 12 SJC-SEA-VAC, was lucky that I had a roomette reserved timely. Otherwise the train was solidly sold out in all classes.

 

[daveyb99]

You are looking fo CHI-DEN, but found no availability. Remember, there are stops along the way, so someone could have booked say Galesburg-Denver, or Omaha-Denver. Either way, it aced you out of your CHI-DEN booking.

I ran into a similar situation on the Eagle. I wanted a Bedroom FTW-CHI, but was denied because some booked that bedroom Springfield-Chicago. Therefore, that bedroom sat empty the entire trip.

What a waste of resources. I do not believe AMTRAK allows that.

 

[Anthony]

You could have purchased the room from FTW to Springfield - I know the website won't tell you where the bedroom opens up, but you can call an agent and he/she can manually look in the computer and see about availability.

 

[daveyb99]

You could have purchased the room from FTW to Springfield - I know the website won't tell you where the bedroom opens up, but you can call an agent and he/she can manually look in the computer and see about availability.

OIh, I did explore EVERY option. Seems the fare to Springfield was $150 higher than to CHI, and we would have been booted out into coach so someone could spend $75 for the bedroom. To move was unacceptable, even to a Roomette.

So having that knowledge, I checked the status every so often --- empty till Springfield

Dont seem fair to me.

Farther distance travellers should get priority over short distance stuff.

 

[AKA]

Just a note about full trains. Was on # 29 on 21 July 07 SAT. Assigned seating in Washington D C . Looked to be a sell out down line. Crew checking for seats at every stop.

 

[had8ley]

You are looking fo CHI-DEN, but found no availability. Remember, there are stops along the way, so someone could have booked say Galesburg-Denver, or Omaha-Denver. Either way, it aced you out of your CHI-DEN booking.
I ran into a similar situation on the Eagle. I wanted a Bedroom FTW-CHI, but was denied because some booked that bedroom Springfield-Chicago. Therefore, that bedroom sat empty the entire trip.

What a waste of resources. I do not believe AMTRAK allows that.

When Amtrak first started they wooed many ex-airline employees to become management. Just to show how un-creative things were 36 years ago, and not much has changed, they would block a seat or a room for the entire journey. Our son was a baby and I used our pass to book a room from New Orleans to Lake Charles on the Sunset. When I went to pick up the ticket the agent told me that the room was blocked the entire route to LA because they had "no way" of selling it twice. In other words, no one took the time to "figure it out." Nothing much has changed except I have seen train manifests that have the same sleeper space sold as many as three times on the same trip.

 

[Sam Damon]

You are looking fo CHI-DEN, but found no availability. Remember, there are stops along the way, so someone could have booked say Galesburg-Denver, or Omaha-Denver. Either way, it aced you out of your CHI-DEN booking.

I ran into a similar situation on the Eagle. I wanted a Bedroom FTW-CHI, but was denied because some booked that bedroom Springfield-Chicago. Therefore, that bedroom sat empty the entire trip.

What a waste of resources. I do not believe AMTRAK allows that.

When Amtrak first started they wooed many ex-airline employees to become management. Just to show how un-creative things were 36 years ago, and not much has changed, they would block a seat or a room for the entire journey. Our son was a baby and I used our pass to book a room from New Orleans to Lake Charles on the Sunset. When I went to pick up the ticket the agent told me that the room was blocked the entire route to LA because they had "no way" of selling it twice. In other words, no one took the time to "figure it out." Nothing much has changed except I have seen train manifests that have the same sleeper space sold as many as three times on the same trip.

In the case of sleepers, it's kind of understandable. Like you said, why should you be booted out of a sleeper because someone wanted 'Pullman' space for day occupancy? I do think they should have given you the option, however, to have the room until Springfield -- if that space had been booked first by the person boarding at Springfield. It's a problem with no easy solution.

But what I absolutely cannot understand is why Amtrak will not issue a coach reservation by seat number and car line. In Germany, DB did this flawlessly during the mid-1980's -- and would even have the actual car number printed on my reservation. With advances in computing horsepower, you'd think Amtrak would be able to do this.

I should add that DB's system of coach reservations also allowed the seat to be occupied right up until the stop where one would board, and allow the seat to be filled after that individual detrained.

 

[Guest]

Wouldn't having reserved coach seats create a problem on full trains when there are no thru seats available to purchase, but multiple seats are available between stops because of passengers coming and going?

Regarding the sleeper mentioned above. Maybe someone bought the sleeper from FTW to Springfield, then someone bought Springfiled to Chicago portion. Perhaps then the person who bought the FTW-Springfield bedroom then decided to change the date, leaving the bedroom open from FTW to Springfield. Maybe this room was actually resold, do we really know?

The fact is that people are constantly reserving (with or without actual payment) and canceling, and changing dates. How long should Amtrak hold bedrooms only for origin to termination point passengers before they decide they should sell to shorter haul passengers? Also, doesn't reselling the room several times actually make more money for Amtrak than the passenger traveling from origin point to termination point?

 

[AlanB]

You are looking fo CHI-DEN, but found no availability. Remember, there are stops along the way, so someone could have booked say Galesburg-Denver, or Omaha-Denver. Either way, it aced you out of your CHI-DEN booking.

I ran into a similar situation on the Eagle. I wanted a Bedroom FTW-CHI, but was denied because some booked that bedroom Springfield-Chicago. Therefore, that bedroom sat empty the entire trip.

What a waste of resources. I do not believe AMTRAK allows that.

When Amtrak first started they wooed many ex-airline employees to become management. Just to show how un-creative things were 36 years ago, and not much has changed, they would block a seat or a room for the entire journey. Our son was a baby and I used our pass to book a room from New Orleans to Lake Charles on the Sunset. When I went to pick up the ticket the agent told me that the room was blocked the entire route to LA because they had "no way" of selling it twice. In other words, no one took the time to "figure it out." Nothing much has changed except I have seen train manifests that have the same sleeper space sold as many as three times on the same trip.

In the case of sleepers, it's kind of understandable. Like you said, why should you be booted out of a sleeper because someone wanted 'Pullman' space for day occupancy? I do think they should have given you the option, however, to have the room until Springfield -- if that space had been booked first by the person boarding at Springfield. It's a problem with no easy solution.

But what I absolutely cannot understand is why Amtrak will not issue a coach reservation by seat number and car line. In Germany, DB did this flawlessly during the mid-1980's -- and would even have the actual car number printed on my reservation. With advances in computing horsepower, you'd think Amtrak would be able to do this.

I should add that DB's system of coach reservations also allowed the seat to be occupied right up until the stop where one would board, and allow the seat to be filled after that individual detrained.

As I've mentioned more than once in the past in various topics, Amtrak did try an experiment with Acela First Class when Acela first came online. The riders overwhelmingly rejected the idea of being assigned a seat. Many passengers downright refusing to sit in their assigned seats when asked to move by the attendants to the correct seat.

So that coupled with the other failures in the full system that had been planned with Acela, resulted in not assigning seats for anyone on Acela. I guess that Amtrak concluded from that failed test, along with other reasons that have been mentioned on the board before, Amtrak never bothered to even try to implement it on the Long Distance trains.

I for one however wonder if assigned seating will become the norm, once Amtrak finishes the electronic ticketing program currently under production.

 

[darien-l]

Woo-hoo! Bedroom availability on CZ for September just dramatically improved. For example, the first week of September, which was almost entirely sold out before, is now fully available. I don't know if it was a system glitch, or if a bunch of people canceled, or if another car was added to the train, but I'm not complaining. There is now bedroom availability on the train my parents want to take (Sept 9 CHI-DEN).

I now have another dilemma, though. I'm a little bit short on points to get a bedroom right now, but I have more than enough for a roomette. However, I have a bunch of American Express membership rewards points that I'm transferring to Continental and then to Amtrak, so I'll have enough points for a bedroom in 2 weeks at most. There are 2 available roomettes and 2 available bedrooms on Sept 9. The way I see it, my choices are:

1) Wait 2 weeks.

2) Book a roomette now, then change it to a bedroom (if still available) in two weeks. However, Amtrak terms and conditions state that "Returns and exchanges may be made at the Amtrak station within 2 weeks of travel, but will be subject to availability and point and monetary penalty." Does anyone know how severe this penalty is?

3) Buy a bedroom ticket now to hold it for two weeks. As soon as I have enough points, I'll cancel the paid reservation and convert it to an AGR ticket. There is a $100 cancellation fee.

Since my parents strongly prefer a bedroom, I'm leaning towards option #3. However, I'm worried that when I try converting a paid reservation to a point reservation, I'll hear something like "we have several paying customers on the waiting list for a bedroom, so as soon as we release this reservation it will be snapped up." Is that a possibility? I don't want to lose $100 and end up with no sleeper. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[AlanB]

I now have another dilemma, though. I'm a little bit short on points to get a bedroom right now, but I have more than enough for a roomette. However, I have a bunch of American Express membership rewards points that I'm transferring to Continental and then to Amtrak, so I'll have enough points for a bedroom in 2 weeks at most. There are 2 available roomettes and 2 available bedrooms on Sept 9. The way I see it, my choices are:
1) Wait 2 weeks.

2) Book a roomette now, then change it to a bedroom (if still available) in two weeks. However, Amtrak terms and conditions state that "Returns and exchanges may be made at the Amtrak station within 2 weeks of travel, but will be subject to availability and point and monetary penalty." Does anyone know how severe this penalty is?

3) Buy a bedroom ticket now to hold it for two weeks. As soon as I have enough points, I'll cancel the paid reservation and convert it to an AGR ticket. There is a $100 cancellation fee.

Since my parents strongly prefer a bedroom, I'm leaning towards option #3. However, I'm worried that when I try converting a paid reservation to a point reservation, I'll hear something like "we have several paying customers on the waiting list for a bedroom, so as soon as we release this reservation it will be snapped up." Is that a possibility? I don't want to lose $100 and end up with no sleeper. Any advice would be appreciated.

You've got a major problem on your hands. Frankly option #1 is probably your best choice.

First though, there is no penalty for exchanging paid tickets, only for refunding them.

Now that said, AGR rules state that any reservation more than 30 days away from today's date, require that the tickets be mailed to you. So if you book a roomette as noted in option #2, they will mail you the tickets. Once you have the extra points, you'd then have to mail the tickets back to them so that they can refund the points to your account and then have enough points to mail you the bedroom tickets. There won't be enough time for that to happen and I don't know if they'll waive the rules and let an agent do the exchange. They might, but until you actually try to do it, you won't know for sure. So you could get stuck.

Of course you could also wait until the 9th and then book the roomette on points if your transfer still hasn't shown up, in which case don't have the tickets mailed. Then cancelling them is easy and quick.

Option #3 is even more complicated and probably unworkable. AGR is a seperate entity from Amtrak, it's a third party contracted by Amtrak to run the program. So they can't cancel a paid reservation, and I rather doubt that they would be able to even hook into the reservation at all. That would mean that you would have to cancel the paid reservation, leaving it sitting out there for anyone. And since Amtrak doesn't update the system until late at night, unless AGR can somehow get into the old reservation, you probably can't call them until the next day to have them try and grab that last room, if indeed the cancelled reservation is the last room.

So you run a real risk that someone else shopping online during the early morning hours could grab the room that you cancelled the day before.

Sadly there is no easy answer to your delima. I suspect that you are just going to have to roll the dice and hope for the best, or pay for the tickets and use the points another time.

 

[Guest]

AlanB,

Thanks for a thorough reply. I spoke to my parents, and they basically said that they'd rather fly than be cooped up in a roomette for 2 days, so that eliminated option #2.

In the end, I decided to go with option #3, and just purchased a bedroom. The total came to almost $2,000, though, so I'll definitely cancel it once I have enough points. I figured that the chances of someone snapping it up between midnight and 8 AM (ET) are a lot lower than someone snapping it up in the next two weeks. I see it as a $100 insurance policy. As with any insurance policy, there is a chance it might not pay up for some reason, but in any case it will be a $100 donation to Amtrak, which is not an altogether bad thing.

By the way, I spoke to an Amtrak agent on the phone (just to change rooms, I booked online) and she said that the system showed THREE sleeper cars on CZ. I think this might explain the recent burst of availability -- they probably opened up part of the transition sleeper for booking.

 

[darien-l]

Looks like I forgot to log in. The above reply is mine.

 

[AlanB]

Darien,

First, as long as you don't pick up the tickets that you brought, when you cancel them online (and make sure that's how you do it), you will get a refund to your credit card for 100% of the sale price. The penalty for canceling only applies if you've picked up the tickets or asked for them to be mailed to you. As long as they remain unprinted, you'll pay no penalty.

Second, opening up the Trans/Dorm would only help roomette availability. There are no bedrooms in the dorm car. So those extra rooms must have come from some cancellation, most likely by a group or a travel agent.

 

[darien-l]

First, as long as you don't pick up the tickets that you brought, when you cancel them online (and make sure that's how you do it), you will get a refund to your credit card for 100% of the sale price.

Really? That is most excellent news. Thanks!