European Overnight Trains

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For those who'd like, Europe : Night Trains has an up-to-date map of night trains in Europe (only solid lines are night trains, dashed lines are daytime)
http://www.night-trains.com/files/night-trains-europe-map.png
Whaa? There's no longer any train service at all from Madrid to the Transcantábrico through Burgos? Or even via Barcelona? Decades ago I took my most memorable night train Madrid-Gijón right over the Picos de Europa, then a couple months later the narrow gauge "FEVE" all the way to Irún-Hendaye.
 
I may have found one overnight train in Europe that is actually NOT as nice as Amtrak's LD trains. :D

The Last SOVIET Train in Europe: Braving Moldova's PRIETENIA Train - YouTube
I think that ride would be worth it just to experience the gauge change. While it didn't look like the most comfortable ride, the cars looked pretty clean. Apparently, no food service, either. The border formalities were something else, too. Passport control and customs as separate services? Score one for the US CBP, at least they combine both functions with one functionary. Also, you don't need to deal with them when you leave the US. I'd be real antsy about having my passport taken out of my sight at border crossings, but I guess if one wants to travel around the world, one has to be prepared for such things.

The other thing was that Kishinev actually looked nicer than a lot of American Rust Belt Cities (or even parts of my own city, Baltimore.)
 
I take the opposite approach. An overnight train does two things for me:
1) It saves on a night in a hotel.
2) It allows me to travel when I am sleeping, which means that my daytimes can be used fully for sightseeing. When you have precious few vacation days, it's nice not to have to lose a day or two due to travel.

Well, ok, I didn't think about that 2) part, sorry. (I live in a country that mandates 4 vacation weeks per year by law, and larger employers give 6 full weeks, so that has never been an issue.)

And I have to clarify that I did ride trains over night a lot, but it wasn't sleeping-car trains, just normal coach daytime trains that happened to run over night (sometimes there are time constraints that make it necessary to go over night, especially on business trips). And for one night, coach is just fine. I just wouldn't want to do a two-night trip in coach. That's where I see a market for sleeping cars in Europe. Like the good old Orient Express (Paris-Istanbul), or the Paris/London-Moscow route, or Stockholm-Rome, things like that. Of course, if you run trains with a locomotive and separable cars, you can always add a sleeper to a normal train that runs over night. But nowadays, most trains in Europe are EMU sets where you just can't add or remove a car easily.
 
Whaa? There's no longer any train service at all from Madrid to the Transcantábrico through Burgos? Or even via Barcelona? Decades ago I took my most memorable night train Madrid-Gijón right over the Picos de Europa, then a couple months later the narrow gauge "FEVE" all the way to Irún-Hendaye.
That's not all service - plenty isn't shown on it.
 
Whaa? There's no longer any train service at all from Madrid to the Transcantábrico through Burgos? Or even via Barcelona? Decades ago I took my most memorable night train Madrid-Gijón right over the Picos de Europa, then a couple months later the narrow gauge "FEVE" all the way to Irún-Hendaye.
Renfe has discontinued all Trenhotels services, only "luxury" trains remain.

That's not all service - plenty isn't shown on it.
Can you tell which, so that the author can add them on the map?
 
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Long Distance does not mean sleeper service. The map in question is a attempt to plot out all sleeper equipped trains. He putting a lot of work in to keep it current. The network was downsizing, now in growth mode. Hard to keep track of everybody.
 
I very much enjoyed my hotels on wheels when riding the European night sleepers about 10 years ago. City Night Line was a German one, and I took others from Paris to Toulouse, Amsterdam to Copenhagen, Paris to Madrid, Madrid to Algeciras, and Paris to Rome amongst others. Sad to hear that many are no longer in service, but good to know some new start ups are planned.
 
This map shows the full set of RENFE routes. View attachment 26998

What's the source of that map?

I'm surprised to see for example that Murcia to Lorca is not considered part of the long distance network, even though there are trains from Lorca to Barcelona and I think seasonally to Madrid as well. On the other hand Valencia to Gandia is considered LD even though it only gets local/commuter trains.

Confusingly Zaragoza to Huesca is marked as being a high speed line whereas in reality its just standard gauge, which RENFE's marketing department seems to believe is the same thing.
 
What's the source of that map?
------

Confusingly Zaragoza to Huesca is marked as being a high-speed line whereas in reality its just standard gauge, which RENFE's marketing department seems to believe is the same thing.
It appears that one AVE turn runs up to Huesca in the evening, lays overnight and then returns to Zaragoza and beyond in the morning. When I rode this segment, it was in a wooden 3rd Class car, so there have been some improvements.

Pyrenees Crossing 1971
 
And apparently the FEVE narrow gauge is still ambling across the north of Spain. I have such fond memories of those trips. I actually did ride it to Avilés in 1977 (see photo).
View attachment 26999View attachment 27000

It's not just the narrow gauge that is missing off RENFE's maps but also many of the local and commuter lines. Their website is also a pain to use in this regard as you have to go onto a separate page to get information on these services and piece your journey together by yourself.

I'm a great fan of the Spanish narrow gauge.

Besides the FEVE and Euskotren systems in the North, there are various other narrow gauge systems and individual lines across most of Spain. For the most part these were part of the FEVE empire in the past, but many have been spun off to local governments over the years. In some cases this has led to massive investments and improvements. Back in the day FEVE were always chronically underfunded and had a bit of a reputation for their make do and mend attitude which helped many lines survive that would otherwise have been lost, but prevented them from thriving to their full potential. This is why many regional governments were keen on taking over the lines on their territory.

The formerly disconnected lines around Valencia have been joined up by a series of tunnels and developed into a very neat metro system. At least one broad gauge line has also been converted to meter gauge, and new lines are still being added. Despite the modernization of the central part, some of the outlying sections, such as Vilanueva de Castellon still emanate a lot of old time Spanish narrow gauge atmosphere and are well worth a visit.

The very scenic coastal line in Alicante line is also now a busy commuter route using streetcar-style lightweight trains. It has been extended into the middle of Alicante city by building a tunnel and various branches have been added for commuter service. In the longer term they want to extend the system to the airport. Quite a contrast to the sporadic beat up diesel railcar that crawled along rickety tracks when FEVE was in charge. Even if the old system was more romantic.

The Barcelona area also has some narrow gauge routes (which were never part of FEVE as far as I know) that mostly start from the Espanya terminus near Montjuic. The system includes various passenger / commuter routes but also some freight-only lines serving potash mines and the SEAT factory. Some parts of the system are highly scenic and one section has a steam train that is run for tourists on certain days. The system also includes the cog line to Montserrat which was rebuilt some time ago after several decades of abandonment.

Further north in the Pyrinees there is another cog railway serving Nuria, operated by FGC, the same people who run the Barcelona lines. This line has also been thoroughly modernized over the last 30 years or so.

Cartagena also has an interesting little narrow gauge line which is still officially FEVE as far as I know but is operated more or less autonomously from the rest of the former FEVE system. It's well worth visiting if you like industrial archaeology as it serves the ancient mining town of La Union and you can see several abandoned mines and remains of abandoned railroads from the train. I understand some of these are protected monuments and will not be dismantled. I believe there are longer-term plans to modernize and electrify the line as a commuter service and extend it. But right now it still has a lot of rickety old time narrow-gauge flair about it.

There is also a line serving Cotos in the Madrid area. I haven't visited this one yet.
 
It's not just the narrow gauge that is missing off RENFE's maps but also many of the local and commuter lines. Their website is also a pain to use in this regard as you have to go onto a separate page to get information on these services and piece your journey together by yourself.

I'm a great fan of the Spanish narrow gauge.

Besides the FEVE and Euskotren systems in the North, there are various other narrow gauge systems and individual lines across most of Spain. For the most part these were part of the FEVE empire in the past, but many have been spun off to local governments over the years. In some cases this has led to massive investments and improvements. Back in the day FEVE were always chronically underfunded and had a bit of a reputation for their make do and mend attitude which helped many lines survive that would otherwise have been lost, but prevented them from thriving to their full potential. This is why many regional governments were keen on taking over the lines on their territory.

The formerly disconnected lines around Valencia have been joined up by a series of tunnels and developed into a very neat metro system. At least one broad gauge line has also been converted to meter gauge, and new lines are still being added. Despite the modernization of the central part, some of the outlying sections, such as Vilanueva de Castellon still emanate a lot of old time Spanish narrow gauge atmosphere and are well worth a visit.

The very scenic coastal line in Alicante line is also now a busy commuter route using streetcar-style lightweight trains. It has been extended into the middle of Alicante city by building a tunnel and various branches have been added for commuter service. In the longer term they want to extend the system to the airport. Quite a contrast to the sporadic beat up diesel railcar that crawled along rickety tracks when FEVE was in charge. Even if the old system was more romantic.

The Barcelona area also has some narrow gauge routes (which were never part of FEVE as far as I know) that mostly start from the Espanya terminus near Montjuic. The system includes various passenger / commuter routes but also some freight-only lines serving potash mines and the SEAT factory. Some parts of the system are highly scenic and one section has a steam train that is run for tourists on certain days. The system also includes the cog line to Montserrat which was rebuilt some time ago after several decades of abandonment.

Further north in the Pyrinees there is another cog railway serving Nuria, operated by FGC, the same people who run the Barcelona lines. This line has also been thoroughly modernized over the last 30 years or so.

Cartagena also has an interesting little narrow gauge line which is still officially FEVE as far as I know but is operated more or less autonomously from the rest of the former FEVE system. It's well worth visiting if you like industrial archaeology as it serves the ancient mining town of La Union and you can see several abandoned mines and remains of abandoned railroads from the train. I understand some of these are protected monuments and will not be dismantled. I believe there are longer-term plans to modernize and electrify the line as a commuter service and extend it. But right now it still has a lot of rickety old time narrow-gauge flair about it.

There is also a line serving Cotos in the Madrid area. I haven't visited this one yet.
You've convinced me that the only way to see Spain now is by rail! Wherever we manage to get back, the trip will be planned that way. Too bad we can't get TO Spain by rail!
 
It appears that one AVE turn runs up to Huesca in the evening, lays overnight and then returns to Zaragoza and beyond in the morning. When I rode this segment, it was in a wooden 3rd Class car, so there have been some improvements.

Pyrenees Crossing 1971
I just read that whole story. What a deep pleasure. Having lived in Spain a couple times in the late '70s, I could really relate to some of the references to fascist Spain as well as to the heartwarming hospitality that pops out of nowhere.

Now those shot glasses... Were they possibly the ubiquitous Duralex Gigogne 3.1 oz glass tumbler? So useful for espresso, cortados and brandy!
https://www.cookshopplus.com/2017-1...G-GLASSES/Duralex-Gigogne-Tumbler-3.1oz-.aspx
 
I just read that whole story. What a deep pleasure. Having lived in Spain a couple times in the late '70s, I could really relate to some of the references to fascist Spain as well as to the heartwarming hospitality that pops out of nowhere.

Now those shot glasses... Were they possibly the ubiquitous Duralex Gigogne 3.1 oz glass tumbler? So useful for espresso, cortados and brandy!
https://www.cookshopplus.com/2017-1...G-GLASSES/Duralex-Gigogne-Tumbler-3.1oz-.aspx

I agree.

My earliest childhood memories are of Spain in the 1970s as we had an elderly relative in the Murcia area. Poverty was still rampant at the time and people were very religious and would sometimes hand us children prayer cards. Outside of a handful of tourist resorts it was still quite rare to see foreign visitors in Spain at that time and we used to attract a lot of attention everywhere we went, and everybody wanted to ask us where we were from and where we were going and people would be very generous in helping us around. My earliest memories are of sleepy little towns with whitewashed houses and dusty streets and stray dogs, with old men in the cafes sipping their cortados, and women dressed mostly in black. Then there were the markets with fresh fruit piled high, a lot of types of fruit we had never seen or heard of before (back then). And the fishmongers with fish so fresh that it had been pulled out of the sea the same morning and that actually looked as if it was still alive.

Many rail lines would get two trains a day. One was the correo which I guess was so called because it also carried mail and typically ran early in the morning. The train was typically a jumble of older cars of different types with no air conditioning, and the tickets very cheap. Then there was the rapido or Talgo which would usually be a modern train with air conditioning and running at a more civilized hour, but the tickets would be much more pricey. There would always be some folks who either genuinely didn't understand the difference or tried their luck and I remember thinking train conductor must be the toughest job around as he was constantly having to argue with people about their tickets.

Once we travelled on dining car which I guess must have been a pre-war Wagons Lits or Pullman car, with lots of intricate art deco woodwork and marquetry and very soft armchair seats. The chef was preparing the food on a charcoal grill. Everything was cooked from scratch with fresh ingredients. It was quite the experience. We were thrilled that such a thing still existed but the Spaniards around us were ashamed of their backward country and apologized profusely.

Since then, the big cities have been modernized beyond recognition and those days seem like a very distant memory, but out in the deep countryside you can sometimes still find places that have stood still in time. The poverty is gone fortunately but the lifestyle hasn't. What I like to do is catch the slow train (they still exist, even if they're not as colorful as they once were) and then just get off at some place that takes my fancy. I've rarely regretted it.
 
it was still quite rare to see foreign visitors in Spain at that time and we used to attract a lot of attention everywhere we went, and everybody wanted to ask us where we were from and where we were going and people would be very generous in helping us around.
We forget how much less common international travel was back in the day. I remember going back to England in 1961 and how unusual it was for them to see a "yank" with my short American haircut, I was almost a celebrity😀. Especially in our sleepy little Essex hometown. The days when transatlantic travel was 12 hours or more in a prop plane and even international phone calls were $12 for 3 minutes, equivalent to about $100 today.
 
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