10 Minute boarding rule?

[jebr]

We all should complain if we have a genuine grievance. It does sound as if the gates were closed too early. I hope Jeff will let us know how Amtrak responds to his complaint.

Ed.

The rest he is making up.

(xkcd)

If you're going to state matter-of-factly that someone is making stuff up, you better have been there or have a source to back up that claim. This wouldn't be the first time Amtrak staff have broken stated policy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they closed the gates 10 minutes prior to boarding instead of 5, especially if the waiting room "looked empty." It's against stated policy, but again, it wouldn't be the first time employees break stated policy.

 

[Hal]

We all should complain if we have a genuine grievance. It does sound as if the gates were closed too early. I hope Jeff will let us know how Amtrak responds to his complaint.

Ed.

The rest he is making up.

(xkcd)

If you're going to state matter-of-factly that someone is making stuff up, you better have been there or have a source to back up that claim. This wouldn't be the first time Amtrak staff have broken stated policy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they closed the gates 10 minutes prior to boarding instead of 5, especially if the waiting room "looked empty." It's against stated policy, but again, it wouldn't be the first time employees break stated policy.

He didn't see them close the gate 10 minutes before. He was not there then. So he is the source! He was there late so it didn't matter anyway. The gate was supposed to be closed at 8:10. I would be very surprised if the gate was closed early. I don't think that is a policy they would break.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[willem]

The rest he is making up.

If you're going to state matter-of-factly that someone is making stuff up, you better have been there or have a source to back up that claim. This wouldn't be the first time Amtrak staff have broken stated policy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they closed the gates 10 minutes prior to boarding instead of 5, especially if the waiting room "looked empty." It's against stated policy, but again, it wouldn't be the first time employees break stated policy.

He didn't see them close the gate 10 minutes before. He was not there then. So he is the source! He was there late so it didn't matter anyway. The gate was supposed to be closed at 8:10. I would be very surprised if the gate was closed early. I don't think that is a policy they would break.

The OP explained his reckoning of time and stated that there were trash cans in front of the doors and no Amtrak employee in sight when he arrived. Also, he said that the employee reported closing the door 10 minutes before scheduled departure. Is he making all this up?

How is this policy one that Amtrak employees wouldn't break it? Surely you're not saying that every report of an Amtrak employee deviating from policy is a fabrication?

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Interestingly, Train 4 running late arrived Kansas City this morning 9:53AM and departed 9:59AM with only a 6 minute in station time. This is according to Amtrak's Status Map.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The main reason had less to do with security and more to do with OTP. Usually, the times in the schedule are the departures times. That is the time they technically want the train starting to pull(or push), not loading last minute passengers or closing the doors. This is when they started letting peole know that at some stations, the gate will close in advance. This gives passengers time to get to the platform, get situated and allowing the conductor to close up.

Now, some stations (like NYP) actually have a gate time in the employee schedule that allows them to leave after the published times. Most stations do not have this feature though.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I don't need someone who wasn't their to try and tell me different. I left the cab right of front of the station entrance at 8:07. It couldn't have taken more than two minutes to walk down the corridor to the glass doors which were already closed with trash cans in front of them and no one around which tells me when they got locked it had to have been a couple minutes before I arrived. In fact the ticket agent confirmed that when he said the doors get locked 10 minutes departure but that's a contradiction of their stated policy of 5 minutes so in their in the wrong to be doing that. It also doesn't help that he gave me some unneeded BS that the train conductors had closed the train doors 10 minutes before departure. This guy must think he's working for an airline. Anyway, I'm going to file an official complaint about his conduct to Amtrak, not only is he not following their own stated policy he flat out lies to me about the conductor's closing the train doors. If they had followed their stated policy I'm confident I would have made the 8:15 am train this morning.

You can file a complaint but looking at this story, you're already behind the eight ball. You allege that you arrived in a cab at 8:07. You then allege that it couldn't have taken more than two minutes.

Sounds good but here is what I would ask: How accurate is your watch? Perhaps the Amtrak personnel have a different time because they actually have to verify the accuracy of their timepieces at the beginning of their tours ,and when asked I'm sure they all will they followed the rules.

Did you verify the accuracy of any of your timepieces to be 100 percent certain of your times? L'll bet the answer is no, but I'm sure you'll get some sort of voucher to make up for the fact that you bet your whole day on 1 minute. Enjoy it.

 

[willem]

For what it's worth, he said it was the time on his cell phone, which I would take to be within a minute of real time. On the other hand, he said that in his fourth post to this thread. In his first post, he said he arrived at 0810, but there is no arrival point mentioned (cab, gate, or otherwise).

 

[caravanman]

I don't like the way a person says what happened to them, and then a load of guys who were not there, say he is wrong, can't tell the time, is trying to get compensation out of turn, and is basically a liar... in so many words.

It is up to Amtrak itself to say whether he is entitled to compensation or not.

I hope some of you guys are not on jury service if I ever go to court!

Ed.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I don't like the way a person says what happened to them, and then a load of guys who were not there, say he is wrong, can't tell the time, is trying to get compensation out of turn, and is basically a liar... in so many words.

It is up to Amtrak itself to say whether he is entitled to compensation or not.

I hope some of you guys are not on jury service if I ever go to court!

Ed.

Um...he asked what the purpose of the policy is and if it was meaningful. So, members of the board provided answers since this member seemed to doubt the procedure. However, on a personal note, If you bet your entire day on one minute, don't be surprised if works against you.

This isn't a power trip as some have intimated. Now that there is an attempt to depart on time, by closing the gate ON TIME (this means the gate should be closed 5 minutes prior...not beginning to process of closing the gate 5 minutes prior) adjust accordingly.

To quote a remark by a host railroad when an Amtrak train showed up at the same time as one of their trains, "tie goes to the home team!" Indeed, that incident was one of the main catalysts for extending the policy of gate times.

That being said, I wish the policy was better publicized. Years ago, SEPTA made their policy perfectly clear by putting it in the actual schedule. If gave the definition of departure time, which basically stated the times in the schedule were the departure times, meaning the train would leave at 0:00 of the advertised time, not the 0:59. Then, it gave an example. If the train is scheduled to depart at 5:20pm, the train should be on the move at 5:20:01, not 5:20:59 and asked passengers to help them achieve their goals by arriving early.

I'd like to Amtrak add something like that to their timetables, particularly since gate time is being extended.

 

[caravanman]

I am not one for flogging a dead horse, but I am one for not moving the goalposts...

The ticket agent SAID the gates were closed 10 minutes before departure...

The customer arrived to find the gates closed and trash cans in front of them, and no staff anywhere...

I am not Sherlock Holmes, but no Amtrak staff can close gates, arrange trash cans, and vanish all on the dot of 5 minutes...

As Sheer Luck Holmes, I would deduce that the gates were shut early, in error, as it seemed that no other passengers were around... But like everyone else, I was not there, and am now content to wait on Amtraks verdict.

Ed

 

[Jeff]

I appreciate everyone's comments and input. I will update this post after I submit my complaint and hear something back from Amtrak.

 

[NW cannonball]

I've only boarded once at KCY.

It's a long walk from the ticket counter and waiting area along an elevated walkway to the trackside area where there's a stairway (and very slow elevator) to get trackside and board.

How Amtrak expects one employee to man the ticket counter and first gate to the walkway, and also assist passengers (some with mobility problems) at the distant boarding area - dunno.

Long walk. Leave extra time. Like you would first time at NYP, say.

It is what it is

 

[zephyr17]

I agree, the layout in Kansas City is a long way from the Amtrak waiting area to the platform, and either a very slow elevator or a very long stairway to get down to the platform. It makes sense for them to close off access there well before departure, if nothing else, there are safety issues in "running for the train" there.

 

[Lonestar648]

Once the gate is closed the Conductor is cleared to depart after the platform is clear of boarding passengers and the doors are closed. A last minute arriving passenger is not being expected by the Conductor, so the train could start moving as the passenger approaches creating a safety issue. Safety First.

 

[SP&S]

Without getting in on the argument about the OP, I can see a reason for this policy. It's been implemented in PDX for a while now. Here when you walk out of the boarding gate you often have to cross other active tracks. No overpass, no underpass, no gates, just right over the tracks the way it's been done here for a century. Somebody's late, somebody's running, somebody has tunnel vision and doesn't see a dangerous situation, somebody dies, sues, or both. In other stations you might not have to walk over active tracks but running for a train just as it's ready to pull away is best left for the movies.

 

[royalc]

There are 16 stations listed on Amtrak.com that close the gates 5 minutes prior to departure. If everyone showed up 5 minutes prior to departure to board the train, not only would it be unsafe because of the mad scramble to the train, but the trains would never get out of the station on time.

That's why rules are established.

I'm sorry that you missed your train, but it just appears to me that you gambled and lost.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

There are 16 stations listed on Amtrak.com that close the gates 5 minutes prior to departure. If everyone showed up 5 minutes prior to departure to board the train, not only would it be unsafe because of the mad scramble to the train, but the trains would never get out of the station on time. That's why rules are established. I'm sorry that you missed your train, but it just appears to me that you gambled and lost.

How do you explain passenger trains in other countries that don't adhere to such rules without suffering endless pandemonium?

 

[jis]

In India gates simply don't close. On some trains passengers are still boarding as the last car leaves the platform. It is a sight to behold. What happens in General Second class unreserved cars is not controlled by anyone including your favorite deity. It just happens.

Fortunately most prestige all reserved trains would have the train all buttoned up by departure time usually.

 

[SP&S]

There are 16 stations listed on Amtrak.com that close the gates 5 minutes prior to departure. If everyone showed up 5 minutes prior to departure to board the train, not only would it be unsafe because of the mad scramble to the train, but the trains would never get out of the station on time. That's why rules are established. I'm sorry that you missed your train, but it just appears to me that you gambled and lost.

How do you explain passenger trains in other countries that don't adhere to such rules without suffering endless pandemonium?

If this https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTB7j4F4epr_gZAdf4tp3TSmRb5dHe8yVBFN-kVitctQYm3hTkvmw is not pandemonium, it's close enough for me. (Linked to avoid possible copyright infringement.)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If this https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTB7j4F4epr_gZAdf4tp3TSmRb5dHe8yVBFN-kVitctQYm3hTkvmw is not pandemonium, it's close enough for me. (Linked to avoid possible copyright infringement.)

You may not be aware of this but in countries like France, Germany, and Japan the platforms are open and yet passengers aren't constantly hurting themselves or each other as they make their way to their trains. If you feel the need to reference a massively overpopulated and severely underpaid developing country in order to make Amtrak's boarding rules look reasonable then what sort of point are you really making?

 

[jis]

Actually riding on the roof in non-electrified territory is kind of fun. I have done it several times. Beats any open car or cars with open windows and such.

As for traveling hanging outside a train, I have done it once during the great Railway strike back in the 70s in India. I traveled from Delhi to Howrah (Kolkata) on the only train that was running, which was a special extra length (24 cars then) version of the venerable Kalka - Delhi - Howrah Mail. All other trains were canceled. The only accommodation I could find was some small space for my bag inside the car and a foothold outside for myself, between Delhi and Kanpur (435km about 7hr+). At Kanpur I managed to find space inside the carriage. Unfortunately upto Allahabad was also diesel traction with two Alco diesels spewing black smoke every so often covering us all in soot. Soon after I found space inside, traction change to electric, with a single WAM-4 class AC unit pulling the entire lot and no more soot. So yeah, been there done that. I would not really call it pandemonium. In their own way things were actually pretty orderly.

BTW, I do agree with DA. Amtrak's boarding policies make sense possibly only in the US nanny state context. While I have told you tales of crowded trains, those are all trains with non-reserved accommodation on extremely heavily used routes. I am certain Amtrak would not know what to do in such situations and the entire outfit would have a collective nervous breakdown. OTOH even in India there are hundreds of fully reserved trains running every day where there is no restriction on anyone for getting to the platform whenever they want. Usually the train doors are shut and locked a minute or two before departure, barring unusual circumstances. In general there is no need to place restrictions. Typically the platforms are quite wide. Train composition and reservation charts are posted on the platform and the charts are also posted on individual cars half an hour or so ahead of departure (on the platform. They are placed on the car as soon as the consist arrives at the platform if later than half hour or so before departure) Everyone knows how to look up their reservation on the chart and is also marked on the reservation ticket (electronic or paper). Each carriage location is marked on overhead signs on the platform. So the loading process is anything but pandemonium. Compared to that what is pandemonium is the loading process in New York Penn Station.

 

[Simon]

Surely Amtrak should not be leaving before time. They are not the erstwhile British Rail of this training video: http://youtu.be/GB4jAFbuiw8#at=6m14

Also, running before time disrupts traffic regulation and risks causing delays to other trains. That is the last think Amtrak or the host railroads want.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Surely Amtrak should not be leaving before time. They are not the erstwhile British Rail of this training video: http://youtu.be/GB4jAFbuiw8#at=6m14

Also, running before time disrupts traffic regulation and risks causing delays to other trains. That is the last think Amtrak or the host railroads want.

Nobody said Amtrak was leaving before time. They close the gates leading to the trains early so that all pax are on board by departure time so that they can leave on time. Leaving late can also disrupts traffic regulation.

 

[jis]

Well, if it is an all reserved train, and everyone that has reservation is already known to be on the train and gates giving access to the train shut 10 minutes before departure, then it is not clear what the harm is for the train to leave a few minutes earlier than the advertised departure time, specially if it helps it keep its slot in the flow on the congested main line.

Airlines do this quite often these days and it helps them keep their slot in congested airports and airways.

 

[Palmetto]

It would probably take them [Amtrak personnel] those 10 minutes to figure all that out. Then you'd have an on-time departure. :wacko: