Sunset stopped after palm springs. There saying theres a problem with #2 engine (#99, lead is 171) crew advising slow ride to UP Yard moving at 25mph now and 2+ hr repair in addition to removing second engine. If anyone knows or hears anything. Response would be appreciated
#2 Amtrak Sunset Limited breakdown
- Thread starter mflsjhs
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
- Status
Pulling into Lordsburg now - 3.5 hours off schedule. Going to try and take a look at the engine situation when we hit El Paso.......
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
SAS was a bit of a mess today. I was up early this morning so went over to the station to see what sort of action was going down. No Texas Eagle. No Sunset Limited. No trains at all except for those two mysterious Superliners that are often on the second track these days. Checked the mobile to see that everything was still running late but scheduled to show up within the hour so I just relaxed and waited to see how they would deal with two near simultaneous arrivals and the second track already occupied. Everything started out real quiet. Then suddenly there was a flurry of movement as little four wheeler contraptions headed out in the darkness. Signals lit up, switches were set and the bells started to ring. The westbound Sunset Limited came rushing in from the North and pulled as far South as she could before running out of pavement. The four wheelers came back and everything quieted down for a moment. Then some surprisingly short little freight trains came through. I wonder what specific part of the locomotive makes that deep bass sound as it passes by? Once the three freights had passed through the four wheelers were out and about again and suddenly the Texas Eagle came rushing through at a good clip and hit the breaks hard. I was pretty damn impressed with its stopping distance. Much shorter than I expected. Then things slowed to a crawl. The moment of truth was upon us. There were only two tracks off the mains and accessible to passengers. One track had the Sunset Limited while the other had those two mystery cars. First the Sunset moved over to the east side of the Alamo Dome. I didn't realize they could fit the whole thing over there but they had just enough room. Then the Texas Eagle started backing up. It was so slow that it nearly snuck past one of the crossing gates. It didn't replace the Sunset but rather backed into the two mystery cars. I'll have to ask about those cars the next time I'm in the station because for some reason it's bothering me not knowing their purpose with any certainty.
I go over the Durango St. overpass 3X/week and I look and they are always there. The last time I looked closely it was 1 coach and 1 sleeper.
#21 didn't get there til 5:30 this morning - 7.5 hrs late. What now?
Last edited by a moderator:
I thought that I had mentioned this the last time it came up, but just in case, those two cars are protect cars. They sit there in case a coach or sleeper on either the Sunset or the Eagle comes through San Antonio and gets bad ordered or for those occasions where #2 is so late that it would misconnect with the Eagle and delay it's departure. Instead of delaying departure, the Eagle will pull those two spare cars as replacements for the cars that should have been transferred off of the Sunset. Many times Amtrak will even bus the connecting passengers from the Sunset to the Eagle also.
Then when the late arriving Sunset finally does get to SAS, it drops the two through cars as normal and they become the new spares (aka mystery) cars.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
I'm running on caffeine fumes at this point but I'll try to explain my confusion. On a night when the WB-SL meets the TE at SAS I would expect two TE cars to be removed and placed on the WB-SL. I would not expect two empty cars to be picked up from the station and added to the end of a full length TE. See what I mean? Maybe I'm just dense but I honestly don't see why they'd do that. I wasn't able to stick around for the rest of the switching operations so maybe it all became much clearer later on. By the time they were dropping off the TE's passengers it was time for me to head to work.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok, let's take a step back. Put those two cars out of your mind for a minute.
Here's what's supposed to happen normally, train #2 comes through in the wee hours of the morning and drops off 1 sleeper and 1 coach for the Texas Eagle. Crews over the next few hours switch those cars onto the Texas Eagle consist that had arrived the night before, getting the train ready to head to Chicago at 7:00 AM.
Obviously in the other direction, the opposite happens with the Sunset picking up the cars dropped by the Eagle.
Now, the two cars that are always there only come into play if #2 is running so late that it won't arrive into San Antonio after 7AM. If that's going to happen, then the yard crews take those spare cars and put them on the Eagle to make up for the two cars still stuck on the delayed Sunset.
This allows Amtrak to honor reservations made along the Eagle's route in those cars. Without those spares, Amtrak would have to deal with disappointed customers along the way who don't have a seat or room. Additionally, if the Sunset isn't super late, read still in Arizona, then Amtrak will take those through passengers off the Sunset at an earlier stop and bus them to Fort Worth to connect with the Eagle and of course those spare cars provide the room for those bused passengers.
Now, eventually the Sunset gets into SAS and just like normal, it drops off the two through cars for the Eagle. Since the Eagle is long gone, those two cars now become the spares for the next time.
Finally, as I noted earlier, if either the Sunset or the Eagle comes into town with a car giving them problems, then that car would be cut out of the consist and the appropriate spare would be cut into the consist.
Here's what's supposed to happen normally, train #2 comes through in the wee hours of the morning and drops off 1 sleeper and 1 coach for the Texas Eagle. Crews over the next few hours switch those cars onto the Texas Eagle consist that had arrived the night before, getting the train ready to head to Chicago at 7:00 AM.
Obviously in the other direction, the opposite happens with the Sunset picking up the cars dropped by the Eagle.
Now, the two cars that are always there only come into play if #2 is running so late that it won't arrive into San Antonio after 7AM. If that's going to happen, then the yard crews take those spare cars and put them on the Eagle to make up for the two cars still stuck on the delayed Sunset.
This allows Amtrak to honor reservations made along the Eagle's route in those cars. Without those spares, Amtrak would have to deal with disappointed customers along the way who don't have a seat or room. Additionally, if the Sunset isn't super late, read still in Arizona, then Amtrak will take those through passengers off the Sunset at an earlier stop and bus them to Fort Worth to connect with the Eagle and of course those spare cars provide the room for those bused passengers.
Now, eventually the Sunset gets into SAS and just like normal, it drops off the two through cars for the Eagle. Since the Eagle is long gone, those two cars now become the spares for the next time.
Finally, as I noted earlier, if either the Sunset or the Eagle comes into town with a car giving them problems, then that car would be cut out of the consist and the appropriate spare would be cut into the consist.
I have a couple questions about the Sunset route, specifically eastbound..... My wife and I were on the SSL, leaving LA on Wednesday. I noted the average speed throughout our trip got to wondering about speed limits on this route and if the UP engine that was substituted, could have played a part in the lengthy delays on this trip? Obviously a mechanical problem severe enough to require a substituted engine delays things but I'm not sure about how speed limits along the route and other train traffic impacted the schedule.........
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
I can't cite specific speed limits, but in general I believe that speeds along the bulk of that route for Amtrak are 79 MPH. However, with a freight engine leading, top speed would be 70 MPH. So even once the train gets moving again with the replacement engine, any delays caused by the original problem would continue to snowball since the overall average speed would be lower than normal.
Hope that helps.
henryj
Conductor
It's much more complex than Alan describes. The Sunset only runs three times a week and the Eagle only carries one sleeper and a transition sleeper, but is a daily train. So when the westbound Sunset picks up the two cars that the Eagle brought down there are at least two out of three times that there are no corresponding cars for the Eagle to take back north the next day. That is what the extra cars are for. Where do the extra cars come from? On days when the eastbound Sunset drops off cars for the next days Eagle then the two cars off the Eagle that did not go anywhere the night before become the extra cars until needed the next day. Check out the timetable. This is the do-si-do that Amtrak wants to eliminate by making the SAS to NOL section a coach only train with no through cars when and if the Sunset ever becomes daily.
Gabbytony
Train Attendant
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2011
- Messages
- 82
Can someone translate the above for us newbies?
The Sunset Limited runs with two engines. Apparently there is some sort of problem with the second engine, number 99. The first, or lead engine, is #171 and apparently working fine. But dragging around a dead engine tends to slow things down, especially when you depart a station and have to return to top speed. It takes far longer when one of the engines isn't working.
Generaly speaking Amtrak breakdowns are becoming more common of late. The railroad is running equipment that is 25-30 years old. Many of the breakdowns are not even reported here. Three weeks ago the cafe car broke down on the Crescent trip out of NOL. The train ran without one for that trip. Then at Charlottlesville VA the following day a NE regional train was stuck, requiring that the Crescent donate one of their engines.
Amtrak needs new equipment but being on a shoestring budget the new stuff will be coming online very slowly.
Amtrak needs new equipment but being on a shoestring budget the new stuff will be coming online very slowly.
BlakeTyner
Train Attendant
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2009
- Messages
- 93
A couple of years ago, we were all a bit puzzled by the California cars from the Texas Eagle and how exactly the tri-weekly connection with the Sunset happened. Because the Eagle always runs with the same consist, there had to be some protect cars floating around in SAS. I sat down with timetables and paper and pencil to see exactly how it all worked. This is the result:
This all occurs in San Antonio.
Monday: 22 leaves in the morning with standard equipment (the standard train 21 that arrived in SAS the night before.)
21 arrives in the evening with the 421 cars. The Sunset arrives in the evening with its 422 cars--an even trade.
Tuesday: 22/422 leaves in the morning with the same consist as it arrived with, except that it traded one sleeper and one coach with the Sunset.
21 arrives in the evening with standard equipment.
Wednesday: 22 leaves in the morning with the standard consist that arrived as 21 on Tuesday night.
21/421 arrives in the evening, giving the 421 coach and sleeper to the Sunset.
Thursday: 22 leaves in the morning with a protect coach and sleeper (where that comes from you'll soon see.)
21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist. Now is where the phantom sleeper/coach come in. The Sunset Limited ALSO arrives Thursday night. So on this night, the Texas Eagle drops the sleeper and coach it came in with--those become protect equipment--and adds on the sleeper and coach from the Sunset.
Friday: 22/422 leaves in the morning--same consist as always because it dropped a coach and sleeper in SAS and picked up the coach and sleeper from the Sunset.
21/421 arrives in the evening, giving the 421 coach and sleeper to the Sunset.
Saturday: 22 departs with the protect equipment from Thursday night.
21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist, but again, the Sunset ALSO arrives this evening with 422 cars, so 21 drops its sleeper and coach, which become the protect equipment for next Thursday morning's 22.
Sunday: 22/422 departs in the morning--same consist as always because of the dropping of the protect equipment and the pickup of 421 cars.
21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist, which departs the next morning as 22--and the cycle begins again at the top.
This all occurs in San Antonio.
Monday: 22 leaves in the morning with standard equipment (the standard train 21 that arrived in SAS the night before.)
21 arrives in the evening with the 421 cars. The Sunset arrives in the evening with its 422 cars--an even trade.
Tuesday: 22/422 leaves in the morning with the same consist as it arrived with, except that it traded one sleeper and one coach with the Sunset.
21 arrives in the evening with standard equipment.
Wednesday: 22 leaves in the morning with the standard consist that arrived as 21 on Tuesday night.
21/421 arrives in the evening, giving the 421 coach and sleeper to the Sunset.
Thursday: 22 leaves in the morning with a protect coach and sleeper (where that comes from you'll soon see.)
21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist. Now is where the phantom sleeper/coach come in. The Sunset Limited ALSO arrives Thursday night. So on this night, the Texas Eagle drops the sleeper and coach it came in with--those become protect equipment--and adds on the sleeper and coach from the Sunset.
Friday: 22/422 leaves in the morning--same consist as always because it dropped a coach and sleeper in SAS and picked up the coach and sleeper from the Sunset.
21/421 arrives in the evening, giving the 421 coach and sleeper to the Sunset.
Saturday: 22 departs with the protect equipment from Thursday night.
21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist, but again, the Sunset ALSO arrives this evening with 422 cars, so 21 drops its sleeper and coach, which become the protect equipment for next Thursday morning's 22.
Sunday: 22/422 departs in the morning--same consist as always because of the dropping of the protect equipment and the pickup of 421 cars.
21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist, which departs the next morning as 22--and the cycle begins again at the top.
- Status
