2 Seperate Systems

[Tanner929]

Living in the New Haven I see look at Amtrak as a regional commuter line. To go from Boston-New York, Philadelphia or Washington Amtrak needs to have a system that will get people to the cities not serviced by commuter rails Perhaps a system of merging fiscally with the regions commuter lines. This could be a model for other regions with similiar commuter lines. As for Long Distance travel maybe they need to look into how Ocean Liners have restructured there business lines.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Well I certainly know what you mean about a cruise-mentality for the long distance trains. Some people--myself included--do use them that way.

But yet the long distance trains serve many markets not served by anything else, many,many of the passengers are shorter hauls, people traveling for real reasons not just to "have a good time" (as I am).

Some communties, particularly in the west (and the same in Canada) depend on the train for their serious needs of both travel and transport.

 

[MrFSS]

A few years ago I road the Alaska RR from Anchorage to Fairbanks. I was amazed at the number of times the train stopped in front of someone's home out in the middle of nowhere, picked someone up, or dropped someone off, or even dropped a package off to someone standing there waiting for the train. That probably happened 4-5 times in the 12 hour trip. That is a Railroad serving people that no other form of transportation could or does.

 

[saxman]

Yeah alota people think, the passengers are riding the train for fun, just to take the train. But thats not entirely true. If there are any studies, on this, please do let me know....but most people on the train are going somewhere they need or want to be. Like I take the long distance train often between Fort Worth and Austin, or St. Paul and Grand Forks. That's because I fly to MSP and take the train the rest of the way, because flying is often very expensive to ND. Even though I'm a train fanatic, its really the only choice I have to get to school. Sometimes I've takin it all the way home. It's my leasure way of getting home, yet I'm still going somewhere I need to be. Some critics, Amtrak LD trains should be "land cruises." Excuse me, but thats what the American Orient Express is. And it doesn't run but on certain routes, certain times of year.

I'd like to see how many passengers are taking the train, just to take the train, or are actaully going somewhere. Yet in many cases, thats hard to measure.

Chris

 

[AlanB]

NARP has a few informal survey's taken several years ago on their website. Additionally Montana did a report two years ago that was more orientated to the benefits the Empire Builder provides to that state. They do mention a bit about who rides the Builder in addition to the numbers that they provide. I mentioned some of those numbers in another topic just yesterday.

Those reports can be found here on the NARP site.

 

[GG-1]

I'd like to see how many passengers are taking the train, just to take the train, or are actaully going somewhere. Yet in many cases, thats hard to measure.
Chris

Aloha

But everytime I take the train to go "someware", Why not have fun geting there or returning?

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

I'd like to see how many passengers are taking the train, just to take the train, or are actaully going somewhere. Yet in many cases, thats hard to measure.

Let the train get over two hours late, and then every passenger lets you know "THEY HAVE (or in some cases had) SOMEWHERE THEY NEED TO BE!!!

LOL :lol: OBS........

 

[IceColdMintJulep]

The report talks about package express and that it was hard to quantify the use and benefits to Montana. This makes me think that it dosen't seem that Amtrak utilizes this service option to it's full potential. The mail cars proved to be a bit too challenging for Amtrak to run, causing delay and whatnot, but an extra baggage car to handle packages and properly marketed could probably turn a bit of a profit.

 

[Trogdor]

They still offer package express if it can go in the baggage car.

 

[Tanner929]

Perhaps AMTRAK could give some students and ride the rail and talk to people its sort of a grant you get a free roomette and meal vouchers. This would get a real survey and not a telephone survey.

Few weeks ago I was talking in New Haven CT when someone mentioned The Budget and its non funding of Amtrak. They all where against it, where bitter at Bush and they love traveling by train. I then of course asked when they went anywhere by train. This is in the Middle of the NEC some of them travel along the NEC routes but all had excuses of why they have'nt. Most dealing with lack of flexibility. But this is what telephone surveys get "Oh they luv the train but....."

perhaps any graduate students looking for a research paper could propose this to their congressmen, heck it would beat sitting in a library.

 

[haolerider]

Tanner: A random survey like you are suggesting would be just that........a random survey..............not statistically accurate or reliable. Amtrak does Focus Groups around the country to gather the type of information you are talking about and it is done face to face. The phone surveys are done from records of people who have taken the train during a certain period of time and on all trains. I am sure some graduate student would love to ride the train and talke to people, but generally that is referred to as "Grandmother Research".

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Such a survey would be valid and reliable if the design and sampling methods were done properly and if the appropriate statistical tests were used on the data based on the design and the sample, but that would only give you a statistically valid snapshot of the population you sampled - not "the general public", but the riders of whtaever passenger trains you did the sample on, and the results would likely be biased by the "regionality" of the samples, unless you also randomized it geographically, And the "n", or the number of samples, would have to be pretty fair sized, but that is a part of the research design question... To be able to say something about "the general public", that's the population you'd have to sample, using proper randomization, a proper research design, and with the appropriate statistical tests applied to the data.

A sample can only tell you something about the population from which it is taken. Given that proviso, you can indeed make reasonable inferences about that population with a proper research design and a large enough sample. Putting some kids on some trains to ask questions isn't going to give you anything you can hang your hat on. Design the survey properly, train your people properly (no pun intended: ), have them carefully follow the design (and document it), and you might get useful results that would mean something and which you could defend. Otherwise it's a complete waste of time and money.

(I completed a minor in Stat).

 

[steve_relei]

What's wrong with having a system that is both fun and useful at the same time? One that people willingly use, that lets them enjoy the scenery and the ride while getting from point A to point B.

 

[Midland Valley]

There is nothing wrong with it. I have gotten months of tedious work done during a one or two day train trip with no interruptions unless I wanted to go to the lounge car or dinning car. I can't do that on a plane, I'd be sicker than a dog which I usually am on aplane anyway. My only concern about two seperate systems is one becomes favored over another or one is sacrificed for the other due to performance or profit.

 

[steve_relei]

It already is that way. Most of the money Amtrak gets in subsidies goes for the Northeast Corridor, the relatively small(er) amount actually goes to help the long distance trains, which means the long distance trains are not the ones costing all the money.

The short hauls and long hauls feed into each other. What's more, I like being able to go to a ticket counter to get tickets for both types of trains (one system) rather than have to go to several different counters (railroads, systems) to get to my destination.

 

[AlanB]

It already is that way. Most of the money Amtrak gets in subsidies goes for the Northeast Corridor, the relatively small(er) amount actually goes to help the long distance trains, which means the long distance trains are not the ones costing all the money.

Yup, last year about 300 M of the 1.2 B went to the LD's. The rest went to the corridor.

And the LD's would probably loose even less money than advertised, if Amtrak were able to properly allocate it's expenses. Right now the LD's get charged more for overhead expenses than they probably use.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

trains.com newswire has a story that mineta has now published the Bush plan that as far as I can understand it makes Amtrak a ne corridor only operation, touts how it upgrades all the facilities, but implicitly dumps the nationwide system completely. Any of us that are not ne corridor commuters can go eat $h1t and die, I guess, as far as W's administration is concerned (except for the federal tax money taken from ALL the states to do the ne corridor upgrading, of course). Wonder how much in bribes, er ,excuse me, how much in campaign contributions, the freight railroads had to make to get that.....

 

[Midland Valley]

Mineta does want,(at least he said so) to make the Detroit-Chicago corridor a strong system. With that type of logic then you will have a St. Louis-Chicago, Mil-Chicago, etc. corridor but no long distance and certainly no trans-cons.

 

[AlanB]

Wonder how much in bribes, er ,excuse me, how much in campaign contributions, the freight railroads had to make to get that.....

If contributions had anything to do with this, I suspect that it was less the freight RR's and more the Oil, Airline, and highway/auto lobbies.