2021 Montana crash - Bent track

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From the article:

Rail accidents including derailments have been trending down in the U.S. as the number of miles travelled by trains drops.

However, the rate of accidents per mile has been going up, according to the Federal Railroad Administration. Railway unions contend rail transportation has become riskier in recent years following widespread job cuts. Most rail accidents involve freight trains, and fatalities involving passenger trains are rare.
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Steve4031 said:
Apparently, the defect was bad enough to cause a serious derailment, but it was not sufficient enough to cause the signals to turn read on each end of that block.
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That would depend on:

(a) If they use track circuits in that area.

(b) If the kink caused a break in the rail. With CWR a track defect that does not cause a rail breakage may not be visible as a track circuit event.
 
AmtrakBlue said:
Only one was in the SSL. The other two could have happened in any vestibule.
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That's why they need to prevent people from passing between cars, just like they do on the New York Subway. (See the recent stuff about "subway surfing," although Amtrak is different, as there's no way to access the outside of the train car from the passageways between the cars,) Please let's not give anyone any ideas, or we'll all be forced to stay in our rooms or seats for the whole duration of the trip.
 
MARC Rider said:
That's why they need to prevent people from passing between cars, just like they do on the New York Subway. (See the recent stuff about "subway surfing," although Amtrak is different, as there's no way to access the outside of the train car from the passageways between the cars,) Please let's not give anyone any ideas, or we'll all be forced to stay in our rooms or seats for the whole duration of the trip.
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Prevent people from passing between cars on a long-distance train? No. People need to get to the dining car and lounge car.
 
I could see a recommendation to offer safety belts or some other type of restraints in places like lounge car seating and coach seating as they now do on some busses. I could also see some scrutiny of the windows in the sightseer which apparently were all displaced on the impact side. Obviously the former doesn't help with walking the train but it would dramatically reduce the impact of serious injury or fatality in the event of such an accident for one who was seated and chose to use whatever restraint.
 
joelkfla said:
Maybe they should just force the Railroads to spend the money to maintain their tracks.
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The BNSF former GN High Line is generally maintained to high standards and its FRA Class 4 status requires track inspections at least twice weekly. BNSF generally does not cheap out on maintenance on its mainlines.

The next train over that section likely would have derailed, passenger or freight.

This one is probably in the "s happens" category. However, with that said, the NTSB is now likely laser focused now on track maintenance on that section of track and any irregularities or bad practices will no doubt be in its final report.
 
zephyr17 said:
This one is probably in the "s happens" category.
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I doubt that's how they are going to see it. The fact that this potential sun kink occurred in an area that had just had major work done and the speed restriction lifted only 11 days earlier is likely a key focus and general maintenance practices will get heavily scrutinized. I tried to go through the track factual report but not knowing enough about track engineering I simply don't know how to interpret some of what I read. I picked up a couple areas of interest that one of the articles also mentioned but I again don't know enough about track maintenance to really know what may be particularly concerning or raise questions. If there's any change to maintenance and inspection practices that could lead to an incident like this being less likely they will surely make a recommendation - there's almost always something in this kind of thing even when there isn't a glaring bombshell.
 
joelkfla said:
Maybe they should just force the Railroads to spend the money to maintain their tracks.
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Agreed.
zephyr17 said:
The BNSF former GN High Line is generally maintained to high standards and its FRA Class 4 status requires track inspections at least twice weekly. BNSF generally does not cheap out on maintenance on its mainlines.

The next train over that section likely would have derailed, passenger or freight.

This one is probably in the "s happens" category. However, with that said, the NTSB is now likely laser focused now on track maintenance on that section of track and any irregularities or bad practices will no doubt be in its final report.
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Between Shelby and all the way to MN the track can be extremely rough. So I’m not buying the whole it’s well maintained issue.
zephyr17 said:
One thing that is pretty clear from the Crashworthiness/Survival Factors report is Amtrak is going to get reamed out in the final report on issues of crew responsibility, training and organization in case of an emergency situation.
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I can not go into details about emergency situation training. However, I will say that I feel perfectly comfortable with what has been given and is mandated by the FRA.
 
Yeah, my experience of BNSF tracks has been that they do keep them upto standard to pass the FRA track category requirements, but not much beyond that. Of course the ex-CB&Q tracks are usually significantly worse than the ex-BN tracks though.
 
Acela150 said:
Agreed.

Between Shelby and all the way to MN the track can be extremely rough. So I’m not buying the whole it’s well maintained issue.

I can not go into details about emergency situation training. However, I will say that I feel perfectly comfortable with what has been given and is mandated by the FRA.
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Rough and unsafe are two different things. Many sections of the NEC don't win any smooth ride prizes, either, but I do not consider it unsafe. Also the roughest rides I have ever experienced was on the Silvers. A water bottle flew across me in bed without hitting me on that one. No section of the Builder (which I ride with some frequency) matches that one for rough rides.

I take it you have not read the Crashworthiness/Survival Factors Report posted on the NTSB docket. You may be satisfied, but the NTSB is clearly not happy with the actual crew response.
 
MARC Rider said:
That's why they need to prevent people from passing between cars, just like they do on the New York Subway. (See the recent stuff about "subway surfing," although Amtrak is different, as there's no way to access the outside of the train car from the passageways between the cars,) Please let's not give anyone any ideas, or we'll all be forced to stay in our rooms or seats for the whole duration of the trip.
Steve4031 said:
Prevent people from passing between cars on a long-distance train? No. People need to get to the dining car and lounge car.
AmtrakBlue said:
He was being sarcastic
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Possibly seriously though, could this be a solution to the ADA problem that puts stringent limits on modern car designs? Restrict everyone to one car and open up more design choices?

It has been some years 5-10 or so since I have been on the NYC subway, and I don't remember restrictions on going car to car? Is that new?
 
zephyr17 said:
Also the roughest rides I have ever experienced was on the Silvers.
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I remember some rough rides on the silvers but lately it seems to not be quite as bad down that way. I rode the Auto Train in October and the Meteor in January and I don’t remember anything being particularly noticeable rough. Always some bumps of course. The roughest I recall is Nebraska on the Zephyr, which is BNSF.
 

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