A bit dissapointed to hear about Empire Builder Equipment...

[Mike S.]

Hey guys, I haven't posted in a bit. Been reading some of the travelouges and I'm dissapointed to read that there is a 50/50 chance of having a rebuilt sleeper on the EB route. That kind of well...blows. I've been saving my AGR points for some time now and really want it to be a special trip. I know...it can still be a nice trip with an older sleeper, but I was hoping that the nice equipment was there to stay. What gives with dilluting some of the rebuilt equipment?

Mike S.

 

[NativeSon5859]

Hey guys, I haven't posted in a bit. Been reading some of the travelouges and I'm dissapointed to read that there is a 50/50 chance of having a rebuilt sleeper on the EB route. That kind of well...blows. I've been saving my AGR points for some time now and really want it to be a special trip. I know...it can still be a nice trip with an older sleeper, but I was hoping that the nice equipment was there to stay. What gives with dilluting some of the rebuilt equipment?
Mike S.

Some of the rebuilt sleepers have been fanning out throughout the system. 7 and 8 shouldn't be the only ones to get the good stuff.

I was on a rebuilt one on 59 last May...hoping to get on one again next week.

 

[Mike S.]

True...but they were clearly trying to keep the EB a cut above the rest. Thats why the simplified dining has been excluded from that train. It would be nice to have train that is consistently nice, not just 50-50.

 

[Larry H.]

You may have read my travel experience from last week. The Empire Builder sleepers were both of the newer style rehabs. One was a bit better riding than the other, and not as noisy. The air conditioning was an issue in both. Either you had too much or none.. the attendant kept adjusting it on and off from downstairs. Overall though the sleepers weren't bad. Some of the maintance on the cleaning end is a bit rushed I think. Marks on the wall are ignored and the mirrors a bit smeared looking.

Running the old lounge was a dissapointment to me however as like you they are advertising renovated equipment.. The diner not having a working dish washer in either direction and using plastic plates added to the untrained chef caused the return meals to be a lot less than expected. The worst features to me were things like dirty coach toilets. What idiot went to mens and womens mixed years ago should have his head examined. The stair ways were noticeable dirty in all the corners like no one was really cleaning them well.

These are all things that someone in management should be checking. I know its running on a shoe string, but I still contend the prices are for service a few levels above what you really get overall. I am happy though that more trains are being given good equipement. It just shouldn't be at the premier trains expense. Most encouraging to me was to quality of the premade meal on the CN as well as the quality of the plastic plates, which at a glance could pass for china. Too bad that there is only one waiter and the steward to take care of it, even if they are only using one half..

 

[AlanB]

I've heard of no changes in Amtrak's game plan that require the EB to get only refurbed sleepers. And it would make no sense for them to stop sending out only refurbed sleepers on that train, when they also want to start doing the same thing with the Capitol Limited.

Amtrak wants to have two Grande Dame's for flagship trains.

 

[jim55]

Hi Mike, You most likley read Larrys May EB trip and My April EB trip. As a rail fan, I wanted to post only good things about the trip. I could not do that. 50-50 chance of refurbished sleepers,diners, and sightseer lounge cars was a fact in my case. On 7, the equipment was outstanding, on 8, it was less than OK for the reasons I stated. When I see reports of the Eagle, SS Limited, and City of NOL haveing refurbished equipment tells me the CHI(Portland and Seattle may be just as guilty) yard no longer respects any "EB only pool" of refurbished cars and puts a roadworthy car on any train regardless of it's rebuild status. Attitude? or necessity? On both west and east EB on day two, the only full day of food service, it took 90 minutes for lunch and dinner. In my case, the food was proper temp and very good. On Larrys trip, the food came quickly, but was not a proper temp. Larrys train 8," the chef was not available"....what the heck is that? Attitude? or Necessity? Both Larry and my observation of the Chi metropaliton lounge, sparse, no treats other than soda, in my case Seats or lack of. WiFi still not working at CUS(heck, even McDs has WiFi)Tour Groups, do they have greater rights than anyone else? In Larrys report, they partied all hours, in my case, they bumped me out of an early dinner seating. I will not travel with tour groups ever again(till I'm senile). Even the ICE chest, now under lock or in the ATT room... do they have too purchase ice or is it free to them? Bottom line, my wife and I would do it again. Westbound was very good, stay in Seattle,OK, but not worth $150 a night. Eastbound, not so good. Jim55

 

[NativeSon5859]

Hi Mike, You most likley read Larrys May EB trip and My April EB trip. As a rail fan, I wanted to post only good things about the trip. I could not do that. 50-50 chance of refurbished sleepers,diners, and sightseer lounge cars was a fact in my case. On 7, the equipment was outstanding, on 8, it was less than OK for the reasons I stated. When I see reports of the Eagle, SS Limited, and City of NOL haveing refurbished equipment tells me the CHI(Portland and Seattle may be just as guilty) yard no longer respects any "EB only pool" of refurbished cars and puts a roadworthy car on any train regardless of it's rebuild status. Attitude? or necessity? On both west and east EB on day two, the only full day of food service, it took 90 minutes for lunch and dinner. In my case, the food was proper temp and very good. On Larrys trip, the food came quickly, but was not a proper temp. Larrys train 8," the chef was not available"....what the heck is that? Attitude? or Necessity? Both Larry and my observation of the Chi metropaliton lounge, sparse, no treats other than soda, in my case Seats or lack of. WiFi still not working at CUS(heck, even McDs has WiFi)Tour Groups, do they have greater rights than anyone else? In Larrys report, they partied all hours, in my case, they bumped me out of an early dinner seating. I will not travel with tour groups ever again(till I'm senile). Even the ICE chest, now under lock or in the ATT room... do they have too purchase ice or is it free to them? Bottom line, my wife and I would do it again. Westbound was very good, stay in Seattle,OK, but not worth $150 a night. Eastbound, not so good. Jim55

I'll say this. I'm hoping that Amtrak is at least "making an effort" to get the refurbished cars on the Builder since it is advertised as such. I'm sure things happen from time to time when that isn't possible.

Generally, does the Builder's rolling stock turn into some other train once it gets to CHI or do they try to just run the same stuff in the same direction everyday?

I'd like to see 5 and 6 get the spruced up service like 7 and 8 as well....but unlike 5 and 6, 7 and 8 can get people where they need to go on time for the most part.

 

[Larry H.]

I was surprised to hear that the City was actually the incoming Texas train.. I guess this has to do with what the Newsletter this months report was talking about in trying to make all the trains the same no matter whether it works or not.. I wonder if the returning empire builder is getting some of the Coast Starlight equipment as it comes in? I sure miss the days when trains were somewhat individual, made you really feel like you were doing something special.. Now it is just all the same, except as noted the quality varies greatly.. Hopefully in someones life time it will all get straightened out. But there does seem to be a lack of management oversite as to what the heck is going on.. Only in the goverment, ( or maybe in the railroads). There was a fellow we ate with who rode in our sleeper that said his son was a chef for amtrak for like 20 something years. He said they are so short handed since the cut backs that many are calling in after a few weeks of overwork due to stress. I don't know how true that is, but its what he told us.

 

[jim55]

Hey guys, I haven't posted in a bit. Been reading some of the travelouges and I'm dissapointed to read that there is a 50/50 chance of having a rebuilt sleeper on the EB route. That kind of well...blows. I've been saving my AGR points for some time now and really want it to be a special trip. I know...it can still be a nice trip with an older sleeper, but I was hoping that the nice equipment was there to stay. What gives with dilluting some of the rebuilt equipment?

Mike S.

Some of the rebuilt sleepers have been fanning out throughout the system. 7 and 8 shouldn't be the only ones to get the good stuff.

I was on a rebuilt one on 59 last May...hoping to get on one again next week.

Why not! Why does the Coast Starlight get the "pacific parlour cars"? Naw, they re-issued the EB as refurbished upgraded train. Now, if the old stuff is a result of as "state of good repair" or some Amtrak train yard going into bussiness for themselves...I don't know...just don't expect too much from the EB. Hope you get a good trip. Jim

 

[AlanB]

Hi Mike, You most likley read Larrys May EB trip and My April EB trip. As a rail fan, I wanted to post only good things about the trip. I could not do that. 50-50 chance of refurbished sleepers,diners, and sightseer lounge cars was a fact in my case. On 7, the equipment was outstanding, on 8, it was less than OK for the reasons I stated. When I see reports of the Eagle, SS Limited, and City of NOL haveing refurbished equipment tells me the CHI(Portland and Seattle may be just as guilty) yard no longer respects any "EB only pool" of refurbished cars and puts a roadworthy car on any train regardless of it's rebuild status. Attitude? or necessity? On both west and east EB on day two, the only full day of food service, it took 90 minutes for lunch and dinner. In my case, the food was proper temp and very good. On Larrys trip, the food came quickly, but was not a proper temp. Larrys train 8," the chef was not available"....what the heck is that? Attitude? or Necessity? Both Larry and my observation of the Chi metropaliton lounge, sparse, no treats other than soda, in my case Seats or lack of. WiFi still not working at CUS(heck, even McDs has WiFi)Tour Groups, do they have greater rights than anyone else? In Larrys report, they partied all hours, in my case, they bumped me out of an early dinner seating. I will not travel with tour groups ever again(till I'm senile). Even the ICE chest, now under lock or in the ATT room... do they have too purchase ice or is it free to them? Bottom line, my wife and I would do it again. Westbound was very good, stay in Seattle,OK, but not worth $150 a night. Eastbound, not so good. Jim55

I'll say this. I'm hoping that Amtrak is at least "making an effort" to get the refurbished cars on the Builder since it is advertised as such. I'm sure things happen from time to time when that isn't possible.

Generally, does the Builder's rolling stock turn into some other train once it gets to CHI or do they try to just run the same stuff in the same direction everyday?

I'd like to see 5 and 6 get the spruced up service like 7 and 8 as well....but unlike 5 and 6, 7 and 8 can get people where they need to go on time for the most part.

Again, I've not heard even so much as a whisper that I can recall, that Amtrak has abandoned its policy of putting rebuilt Superliner I sleepers on the Empire Builder. I'm not saying that it's not possible, but I don't recall seeing anything that would indicate that.

Next, it should be noted that not all rebuilds are equal. I don't know why, it may have been money, but the type of rebuild did vary depending on what year the sleeper went to Beech Grove. Some rebuilds are much more complete and nicer than the others, but that does not change the fact that rebuilt sleepers are supposed to be plying the EB line.

Moving on, with 41 out of 59 Superliner I sleepers having been rebuilt, they have to show up on other trains too. The EB IIRC at this late hour, requires only 18 of them for normal service. So Amtrak isn't going to let the other 23 just sit around in the yard. Not with barely enough Superliner sleepers to go around.

Finally, as has been widely reported by several members who have attended the recent NARP meetings, Amtrak actually hopes to include the Capitol Limited as the other flagship train that will also run with the rebuilt sleepers. The Capitol is supposed to be the east coast flagship, the EB the westcoast flagship, so it would not make any sense to allow anyone in any yard deprive the flagship of a rebuilt sleeper, unless there was absolutely no choice.

Amtrak's VP for marketing is only waiting until they fix the time keeping for the CL to announce the upgraded service. I can't imagine that he'd take kindly to finding out that yard crews are going completely against company policy and just throwing whatever they like on the EB, or taking those cars off to put on other trains without some very valid reasons.

 

[jim55]

Alan, One has to define "refurbished". On 7,Yes on 8...well we had blue carpet & curtains,,,and oh yes...a worthless "easy chair"(felt like steal,armrest much too low)(unsitable). The major problem was the darn slide door that could have made my "B" into a suite with the "C". It was duct taped shut! Previouse pax h ad stuffed travel mags, and washclothes to stop it from rattleing. It did not work. Wife said the old shower(with vinyle curtain) was smaller than the westbound.(I went downstairs). I wonder about the motivation to supervise the ice. I think thats bull and equates to $.Jim

 

[jphjaxfl]

This discussion points to the fact that Amtrak is in dire need of new equipment for most all of its trains especially the long distance trains including sleepers, diners and lounges. Even if an order were placed today, it would likely be 2-3 years before that equipment is available for use. That would not allow for use of any updated technology which might be available to include in new cars. We need to remind our Senators and Congressmen that Amtrak needs funds for capital spending as well as continued operations. Without this, I doubt there will be a discussion in 5 years as to what trains are getting better equipment.

 

[Larry H.]

While were discussing this equipment and possible up grade issue I am wondering what the status of the reduced capacity lounges and diners is for an upgraded train. My experience on the Empire Builder showed that a full train will use the entire lounge and is constantly selling food and beverages in the downstairs lounge. The diner was serving the entire car for at least four seatings. Devide those by half the available space which is what seems to be about to happen and I think your going to have real problems and very unhappy passengers. Will the Capitol Limited run with full diner and louge as a premium train? Or as its been tested with a combination car? I don't think that is a wise choice, actually for any of the long distance trains. And the gasoline prices are no doubt going to spell even greater usage in the future. This is not the time for cut backs in services provided. And the Empire Builder of today is short by comparison to what many trains used to run, so even more pressure on less lounge and diner space if implemented. I am implying that situation for other long distance trains, not just the EB.

 

[AlanB]

Alan, One has to define "refurbished". On 7,Yes on 8...well we had blue carpet & curtains,,,and oh yes...a worthless "easy chair"(felt like steal,armrest much too low)(unsitable). The major problem was the darn slide door that could have made my "B" into a suite with the "C". It was duct taped shut! Previouse pax h ad stuffed travel mags, and washclothes to stop it from rattleing. It did not work. Wife said the old shower(with vinyle curtain) was smaller than the westbound.(I went downstairs). I wonder about the motivation to supervise the ice. I think thats bull and equates to $.Jim

Well as I said above, not all rebuilds are equal. However, I don't believe that Amtrak specifically tracks what type of rebuild each car got. AFAIK all sleepers either fall into the rebuilt catagory or the unrebuilt catagory. So when the yard master is telling the crew to assemble the train, he simply sees a list of numbers that fall onto the rebuilt list and directs the crew to pull cars based upon upcoming inspections and such.

As for the door between the rooms, that's been a common problem regardless of whether a sleeper has been built or not.

It should also be noted that rebuilt is probably the wrong term for use to be using for these sleepers, we should probably be using refurbished. No matter what level of rebuilding the sleeper got, it was all largely cosmetic. The things that you and I see and touch. All of the underlying components were not touched. The electrical system remains the original 30 year old system. The same with door, A/C, vacumm system for the toilets, water, and so on. So as nice as one of the more complete refurbishments looks, the simple reality is that the rest of the car is still falling apart around those nice new refurbishments.

 

[AlanB]

While were discussing this equipment and possible up grade issue I am wondering what the status of the reduced capacity lounges and diners is for an upgraded train. My experience on the Empire Builder showed that a full train will use the entire lounge and is constantly selling food and beverages in the downstairs lounge. The diner was serving the entire car for at least four seatings. Devide those by half the available space which is what seems to be about to happen and I think your going to have real problems and very unhappy passengers. Will the Capitol Limited run with full diner and louge as a premium train? Or as its been tested with a combination car? I don't think that is a wise choice, actually for any of the long distance trains. And the gasoline prices are no doubt going to spell even greater usage in the future. This is not the time for cut backs in services provided. And the Empire Builder of today is short by comparison to what many trains used to run, so even more pressure on less lounge and diner space if implemented. I am implying that situation for other long distance trains, not just the EB.

Larry,

After the testing of the prototype for the Superliner Diner-Lite, Amtrak has been largely silent on things. That could be because they are re-working things based upon that test, or it could be that they are actually having serious second thoughts about the entire idea.

The last that I had heard was that the prototype, as well as the other 9 dining cars already in Beech Grove and at least partially under way for converson, would be completed. There would however be some changes to the final design, based upon the results of the testing. The program to outsource and convert almost all of the Sightseer Lounges was put on hold till at least next year after the testing.

The last word was, that while not absolutely dead, that Amtrak had decided to only convert the 10 dining cars and to use them on a few routes that don't demmand a full diner all year round. That most likely means the Sunset probably year round, the City of NOL during off peak times, and possibly the Eagle during off peak times. The rest of the trains would continue to get both a diner and a lounge car for the foreseeable future.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Emmett decides to assign one of the new Diner-Lite cars to the Capitol, along with a regular dining car, as a way of providing improved, almost enhanced food service for that train as he tried to make it a flagship train. That of course assumes that they can fix the NS OTP issues being caused by Elkhart yard.

 

[frj1983]

Traveling into and out of CUS everyday, I feel that the yard in Chicago is probably doing as best they can. Sitting on a track by itself is a train of 4 Superliners and a Genesis engine that have huge gashes, long brown streaks, and dents in them...obviously not usable equipment waiting to go down to Beech Grove. Was there a recent derailment somewhere that I missed? Because the cars and engine are wedged in between other cars, I can't tell whether they are Superliner I's or II's or whether they are sleepers or coaches. Either way, that's 4 cars and an engine out of commission. So they're probably scrambling for equipment right now.

 

[NativeSon5859]

Traveling into and out of CUS everyday, I feel that the yard in Chicago is probably doing as best they can. Sitting on a track by itself is a train of 4 Superliners and a Genesis engine that have huge gashes, long brown streaks, and dents in them...obviously not usable equipment waiting to go down to Beech Grove. Was there a recent derailment somewhere that I missed? Because the cars and engine are wedged in between other cars, I can't tell whether they are Superliner I's or II's or whether they are sleepers or coaches. Either way, that's 4 cars and an engine out of commission. So they're probably scrambling for equipment right now.

I think either 58 or 59 was involved in an incident in MS about a week ago...hit a diesel truck or something...that could be it.

 

[Foodman53]

This discussion is now starting to make me wary about an upcoming trip that my wife and I booked on the Empire Builder this summer. We'll be travelling by roomette from Milwaukee to Portland, departing MKE on Saturday, July 14....arriving PDX, Monday, July 16. The principal reason that I was able to talk "Mrs. Foodman53" into the train trip was my convincing her that the EB had the "best of the best", service and equipment-wise. Now, she hasn't traveled in sleepers since the mid-1970's, when I worked for Amtrak.....but, she has ridden in coach on several occasons..to and from WPK from JAX...and to Rocky Mount on the "Silver Meteor".........and, once she was "underwhelmed" with the equipment quality and service level...once, she was appalled at the same...which led her to write Amtrak regarding those issues, with her receiving a form letter back, containing a pretty lame apology!! So, I've had to do some selling in order to get this trip booked!!

Now, I don't intend to bore you with my "marital problems"....but, to the point. If this trip isn't right up to "snuff".....just like Amtrak, "Amtrak Trains.com"....and I say it should be, I'll at very least will never hear the end of it for the rest of my natural life...and, Amtrak will forever lose a customer in my wife!!.....probably including our children, sons & daughters-in-law, friends, neighbors and church and social acquantances as well" Now, we're not expecting the "QE2", but just for things to be "right"...particularly those wholly within Amtrak's control.

This one-way fare was $845.00!! more than $200 more expensive than United Airlines round-trip from O'Hare to PDX for both of us....and 40 hours longer!! Now, neither she or I are complainers...to the contrary, we're both rather easy going people, and we both know trains!! But, this trip goes beyond just the two of us...there are potentially dozens of folks who will be affected from our opinions about our trip!!

Now, this doesn't classify us as "special"...or, "important in our minds only".....but, every passenger has a similar "circle of people" that they influence, and they share their opinions with that circle, good or bad!! And, since Amtrak travel, as a whole, has about the same public approval rating as President Bush...we need far fewer excuses, but all the "friends" and satisfied customers that we can get!!

Obviously, Amtrak can't control the host railroads and their actions that make trains late. But, Amtrak crews the trains, procures the supplies, trains their employees, serves the meals, and maintains and assembles the trains themselves. However, I'd dare say that 75% of the complaints that Amtrak gets come from "Amtrak-controllable issues"

I'm looking for a great 2 day trip. I know that "stuff" happens, but I'm looking for Amtrak to do its best!!

From the "Florida Funnel"

Foodman53

 

[Rafi]

This discussion is now starting to make me wary about an upcoming trip that my wife and I booked on the Empire Builder this summer. We'll be travelling by roomette from Milwaukee to Portland, departing MKE on Saturday, July 14....arriving PDX, Monday, July 16. The principal reason that I was able to talk "Mrs. Foodman53" into the train trip was my convincing her that the EB had the "best of the best", service and equipment-wise...I've had to do some selling in order to get this trip booked!!...

Now, we're not expecting the "QE2", but just for things to be "right"...particularly those wholly within Amtrak's control.

...

I'm looking for a great 2 day trip. I know that "stuff" happens, but I'm looking for Amtrak to do its best!!

Foodman,

Believe me when I say to you that I know *exactly* what you're facing, and I commend you on a job well done on getting her to agree to a relatively lengthy journey. That said, I think that you'll be okay, considering that this *is* Amtrak's big marketing flagship (AutoTrain, too, but this being the one that's gotten more press recently). Just to be sure, however, here are some tips I'd give that have helped me "grease the wheels" as it were, when my wife comes along (which is very rare on an overnighter):

1). If by some dumb, bad luck you don't get a refurbed car (and you should, by all rights), I wouldn't hesitate to voice concerns with the conductor or Customer Service rep on board, explaining the significance of the trip for you, and how you booked it based on marketing of a refurbed "flagship" interior. And with that said, I'd ask for a room in a refurbed car, if there's one available, or to be moved to a refurbed room as soon as one opens up.

2). I would speak to your car attendent privately while your wife gets settled just after boarding and very nicely impress upon him the importance of the trip for you (and consequently, for Amtrak's continued business with your wife). I'd consider a pre-emptive tip as well as encouragement, but everyone has their own tip theories it seems.

3). Consider room service for a meal or two, or even breakfast in bed.

4). Half bottle of wine at dinner. It's saved my butt at least three times on long train trips. Seriously. It's the best $9 I've spent in the dining car (I think it's $9. Could be mistaken. Regardless, it's worth it!).

-Rafi

 

[Larry H.]

I was in the same boat in talking my mom into a long journey. And as you say it was the glowing terms of refurbished and premier service that made the difference in our choice of trains. I guess its all relative, if the other trains are serving premade meals, then normally the empire builder has them beat. (except in our case on return). As you say, it shouldn't be left to assistants to become chefs overnight. Someone in management should have an alternative plan. but they evidently don't. Same for the dishwashing equipment. Even though they are advertising a full service diner, they aren't prepared to repair the thing when its broke.. the waitress said they complained on the way from chicago and nothing was done in seattle. I guess operating on a shoe string there will be sympathetic rail fans to dismiss the ability to fix the problem in route. Running an old lounge on the same train made it all the more agravating. In reality maybe when the EB had the only refurbished cars in the new color scheme it may have seemed different or better. But now you see the same equipment on others. As I said the CN had a great newly redone lounge. Maybe it should have been shunted to the EB, maybe not. Its nice to have all the trains looking better. But when you single out a particular train as your flagship it should be the highest quality in my mind. That takes the management oversite that amtrak is certianly short of.

Its not the Super Chief, maybe there will never be another one, but it isn't awful either. Just not quite up to the hipe thats out there. If your lucky and get the correct consist in both directions you will probably be alright, at least they try to run on time, even if a lot of it is spent stopped in order to do so. My mom says she would go again. She enjoyed meeting the people on the train and even the somewhat odd attendant was fun to her. But if your expecting service allah pullman days, forget it. You will probably get the bed made and if your lucky they may ask if you want coffee. Although most of the trip they didn't. Service today seems to mean they open and close the door at stops and perhaps put the beds up and down. On the first leg of the trip the coffee got made in the morning and after that nothing. On the way back the fellow at least kept it going. My theory is that you go to enjoy the scenery, and if the train happens to have good food and a nice car or attendant its an extra.. that way your not too disapointed if not. Probably you will enjoy the trip.

I shot off an email today to my state reps about the need for enough money to keep amtrak stable and growing, plus a note about getting the railroads to live up to there agreement to give amtrak priority in operation over freights.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

In regards to the EB being without equipment, I was reading an article in a travel magazine (I'll see if I can track down the source) that said that when the EB has something other than refurbished equipment, it's usually due to a variety of reasons -the Cap having some equipment, plus some equipment being out of service. With winter playing havoc on water lines, etc. (the article mentioned the EB losing a sleeper due to ice), I would think these sorts of problems would happen more often during the winter and less often during the summer.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

"....and I say it should be, I'll at very least will never hear the end of it for the rest of my natural life...and, Amtrak will forever lose a customer in my wife!!.....probably including our children, sons & daughters-in-law, friends, neighbors and church and social acquantances as well"

Foodman,

I know exactly what you're talking about. No one in my "circle" has taken an LD trip on Amtrak, so my wife and I are the "guinea pigs" for our upcoming trip on the Builder. Family, friends, even coworkers are extremely curious as to how it turns out - many of them have said they've always wanted to take a train trip, but Amtrak's reputation has kept them from taking the plunge. So, if our trip goes well, Amtrak will gain several new riders, & they'll lose some if it goes poorly.

I've heard 2-3 reports from family & friends that people in their "circle" have taken LD trips, and none of them have gone well. From what I've heard, those people took the EB in coach - for a new rider, two days in coach is a long time! So, hopefully we'll have some good stories to tell them.

 

[Larry H.]

The coaches were a different world, people sprawled out every direction all the time. Not like the old national geographic ads with people sitting in there nice suits and dresses.. Well were not wearing them in the sleeper anylonger either.. I recall when I traveled with my grandfather in the early 60's people still wore a suit in the pullmans as well as the diner.. Not that I want to do that either, its just a different time and getting away from it all in you own room is sure nice if you can swing it.