Air traffic controllers seek help

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Air traffic controllers seek help

Air traffic controllers sought the help of the flying public last week at Kansas City International Airport in its stalled contract talks with the federal government, according to this report published by the Kansas City Star.

Members of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association passed out leaflets at KCI on May 15, asking travelers to call a toll-free number that would tell congressional representatives that they support the air traffic controllers. The association is lobbying Congress to pass a bill that would force the Federal Aviation Administration back to negotiation or into binding arbitration. The agency declared that bargaining was at an impasse last month.

The FAA could impose its own terms two months after declaring an impasse, which would be June 5. If that happens, air traffic controllers believe that many workers will have financial incentives to retire instead of continuing to work, said Kevin Peterson, president of the controllers association at KCI.

Peterson said there are slightly more than 400 air traffic controllers in the Kansas City area, including 41 at KCI. If the FAA's current offer is imposed, wages will be frozen, he said. However, those who retire will continue to receive cost-of-living increases on their benefit payments.

Some veteran controllers could see their wages slashed by 20 percent to 40 percent under the FAA's proposal, Peterson said.

He added that the FAA also is seeking to change work rules that will create unreasonable scheduling requests and would no longer guarantee vacation time.

"We're saying let's get back to the bargaining table or send it to binding arbitration," he said.

The FAA said it has repeatedly responded that its current contract offer is fair and won't trigger the retirements of air traffic controllers across the country.

"The FAA regrets that NATCA failed to show the same will and determination at the bargaining table as they appear to be showing in their efforts to spread propaganda and falsehoods to the American public," said Geoff Basye, an FAA spokesman.

The FAA said in January that the average total compensation package for air traffic controllers was $166,000. Peterson said that figure was wrong and that the agency used every potential benefit to inflate the figure.

Peterson estimated the average annual wage for Kansas City air traffic controllers is about $100,000.

"What the public needs to know is that it's a high-stress job, and it's a young person's profession," he said. "We can't work past age 56, and most air traffic controllers take early retirement after 20 years because they burn out."

Air traffic controllers are barred by federal law from striking, so the union is urging the public to lobby their representatives.

(The preceding report was published by the Kansas City Star on Tuesday, May 23, 2006.)

May 23, 2006

 

[PRR 60]

And how is this related to Amtrak? Airliners.net might be a better forum.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

This is to show that our Government doesn't give a crap about our Transportation network they want every thing for nothing and put the traveling public's safety at risk. :angry:

 

[Philomena Buts]

I agree BNSF. You don't want to treat Air Traffic Controllers like a typical corporation treats its employees. Overworked and underpaid.

 

[Boxcar]

Some veteran controllers could see their wages slashed by 20 percent to 40 percent under the FAA's proposal, Peterson said.
He added that the FAA also is seeking to change work rules that will create unreasonable scheduling requests and would no longer guarantee vacation time.

Oh Hell yes.....let us stress them out more. Make the old movie "Airplane 2" look like a reality show. Amtrak better find more eguipment because if most people are like me, I will not be flying under these conditions.

Being retired, travel time is not a factor and I'd rather take a train anyway. :blink:

 

[RailFanLNK]

Good luck to the air traffic controllers. Last time they really got screwed around was during the Reagen administration and they all lost there jobs. To me, that single event is when the erosion of good jobs in the US began. Companies started following the lead of our "elected" officials and pretty much are in a competition to see who can pay the least instead of once being proud that you took care of your employees.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Let me explain why i posted this story

It has to due with our transportation network the Bush Admin want's to do away with Amtrak because no one rides it so untrue.

He says everyone fly's well the airways are over capitcy now he want's to mess with the people that are responsible for moving aircraft thru the sky's

If Amtrak was to go away there would be millions more in the air which i don't want Amtrak to go

This is just a pure SAFETY issue.

 

[alaskan mutt]

There are 2 sides to this issue. I have worked in the airline business for 20 years. Wages and benefits have taken a beating in every sector but one. Gov't employees are by far the highest paid workers at any airport. it is hard for me to feel sorry for them. Maybe when their pay is slashed 40 percent, vacation is limited to 3 weeks a year, number of paid sick days is cut to 3 a year, health insurance covered by a HMO, and pension replaced with a 401k, I will feel sorry for them.

 

[Philomena Buts]

I think BNSF's point is that given the current situation with the Airlines and now with the Air Traffic Controllers, our safety is being put at risk. It's bad enough that most pilots and mechanics have had to take a big cut in pay and benefits. Now they want to screw the Air Traffic Controllers as well.

When you offer low pay and no benefits, you drive out good people who actually care about the quality of their work. And the ones that have no choice but to stay will be resentful to say the least.

Fortunately I rarely have to fly. I hate it. Once every year or two I go from the west coast to the east coast to visit family. A few years ago I flew back and was so anxious and terrified that I vowed to never do it again. So last year I took Amtrak instead and am planning on doing it again this year. Yes it took alot longer than flying, but I had a good time and got to meet some nice people along the way.

Profitable or not, we need Amtrak so that we have a choice in the way we travel. Bottom line is we all pay taxes and a big portion of those taxes should go toward services to take care of us. Healthcare and a National Passenger Railroad are two such services. Unfortunately we seem to be losing both.

 

[amtrak_flyer]

I am an airline pilot, I fly a B-727 for a major cargo airline. This is relevant to those of us who are fighting to keep Amtrak.

Heres why... This is just another blantant attempt to destroy the middle class by the Bush adminstration. FAA director Marian Blankley has been touring the country, going on conservative talk radio, and spouting the most outrageous untruths about the FAA's controllers. "some only work 4 hours a week, they're grossly overpaid, etc etc" This is the EXACT same tactic Norman Mineta has used against Amtrak. Say anything you want because no one will hold you accountable. Those of us here are educated on the Amtrak situation and know that Mineta is a flat out liar. Blankley is doing the same thing with the controllers. John Q. Public doesnt realize they're being lied too..

Talking about pilots specifically do you know the average copilot flying a regional jet 50-90 passengers (United Express, American Eagle, delta connection, etc etc) starts at $14,000-16000 a year and wont make over $30,000 for about 4 years. Whats worse is the FAA wont enforce or change archiac regulations. Those same pilots for the most part work a 6 day on 1 day off schedule the first year or so and can be on duty up to 16 hours in one day. Its insane what the public doesnt know.

Am I upset that as a pilot my profession has been dumbed down through paycuts, loss of pensions, airline bk's and corporate greed? Yes I am but were all Americans and if were going to have anything that resembles a middle class in the future we need to stick together and support one another.

 

[Boxcar]

There are 2 sides to this issue.  I have worked in the airline business for 20 years.  Wages and benefits have taken a beating in every sector but one.  Gov't employees are by far the highest paid workers at any airport.  it is hard for me to feel sorry for them.  Maybe when their pay is slashed 40 percent, vacation is limited to 3 weeks a year, number of paid sick days is cut to 3 a year, health insurance covered by a HMO, and pension replaced with a 401k, I will feel sorry for them.

Alaskan...your point is well taken but would you really take this high stress job for what you proposed? I knew a controller and I wouldn't. Before retirement I had a job that paid $60 k +

with 5 weeks vacation, 5 paid anytime off days(didn't have to be used as sick days) several paid Holidays ,fully paid health care by either a pay as you go plan or an HMO and a pension plan . Only thing is if I messed up, nobody died. A few thousand customers may lose their OC12/T3 /T1 highspeed computer circuits which was stressful bit not to the point that I had ulcers or couldn't sleep at night or had to retire by age 56. I only smoked too much and sometimes drank a little to much on weekends off. I have been smoke free for 5 years since retirement and cut way down on the margaritas.

Point being...I never held several hundred people's lives in my hands several hours a day each working day. I know.....what about the mechanics and flight crews. They have to do their jobs right or somebody could die. Well, they are underpaid and overworked also but they mainly only have to worry about 1 airplane at a time not several at a time all day long. Now you want that person to be setting there sick because of no sick days left and because of a pay cut he can't afford to miss a days pay? Maybe he is setting there half asleep because his second job he took to help pay the mortage has kept him up half the night. Your intelligent enough that I don't need to keep going and I'm sorry if it sounded like I was preaching to you. I know its hard to feel for a person making $100 grand or so.

My Cardiologist makes more than that and I don't feel sorry for him, nor do I want his job

 

[PRR 60]

So, how much do you think an air traffic controller makes? Any guesses? To save time here is the answer, from 2004:

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Air traffic controllers earn relatively high pay and have good benefits. Median annual earnings of air traffic controllers in May 2004 were $102,030. The middle 50 percent earned between $78,170 and $126,260. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $57,720, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $139,210.
The average annual salary, excluding overtime earnings, for air traffic controllers in the Federal Government—which employs 90 percent of the total—in nonsupervisory, supervisory, and managerial positions was $106,380 in May 2004. The Air Traffic Control pay system classifies each air traffic facility into one of eight levels with corresponding pay bands. Under this pay system, controllers’ salaries are determined by the rating of the facility. The higher the rating, the higher the controller’s salary and the greater the demand on the controller’s judgment, skill, and decision making ability.

Depending on length of service, air traffic controllers receive 13 to 26 days of paid vacation and 13 days of paid sick leave each year, in addition to life insurance and health benefits. Controllers also can retire at an earlier age and with fewer years of service than other Federal employees. Air traffic controllers are eligible to retire at age 50 with 20 years of service as an active air traffic controller or after 25 years of active service at any age. There is a mandatory retirement age of 56 for controllers who manage air traffic. However, Federal law provides for exemptions to the mandatory age of 56, up to age 61, for controllers having exceptional skills and experience.

Poor, downtrodden workers.

 

[AmtrakFan]

This is a perfect example of a reason we need Amtrak, this is one of the reasons I refuse to fly.

 

[Boxcar]

So, how much do you think an air traffic controller makes?  Any guesses?  To save time here is the answer, from 2004:

I really never asked my friend how much money he made but I feel it wasn't anywhere close to $100 grand. I was just referring to the amount stated in the article. We live in a city of 300,000 so I expect it would be less. He doesn't have to keep up with as many aircraft at one time as a large city like New York but it has its busy times.

I just know how stressed he and his other controllers are and I wouldn't want their jobs. Maybe if they can cut the pay enough an illegal alien will accept it...... <_<

 

[Treckie]

So, how much do you think an air traffic controller makes?  Any guesses?  To save time here is the answer, from 2004:
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Air traffic controllers earn relatively high pay and have good benefits. Median annual earnings of air traffic controllers in May 2004 were $102,030. The middle 50 percent earned between $78,170 and $126,260. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $57,720, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $139,210.
The average annual salary, excluding overtime earnings, for air traffic controllers in the Federal Government—which employs 90 percent of the total—in nonsupervisory, supervisory, and managerial positions was $106,380 in May 2004. The Air Traffic Control pay system classifies each air traffic facility into one of eight levels with corresponding pay bands. Under this pay system, controllers’ salaries are determined by the rating of the facility. The higher the rating, the higher the controller’s salary and the greater the demand on the controller’s judgment, skill, and decision making ability.

Depending on length of service, air traffic controllers receive 13 to 26 days of paid vacation and 13 days of paid sick leave each year, in addition to life insurance and health benefits. Controllers also can retire at an earlier age and with fewer years of service than other Federal employees. Air traffic controllers are eligible to retire at age 50 with 20 years of service as an active air traffic controller or after 25 years of active service at any age. There is a mandatory retirement age of 56 for controllers who manage air traffic. However, Federal law provides for exemptions to the mandatory age of 56, up to age 61, for controllers having exceptional skills and experience.

Poor, downtrodden workers.

Hey BD...I noticed the last post stated how good and how much controllers earned and other benefits. The point being was if these were cut 40% how good would they be then. Why do they have mandatory retirement ages and also can retire early? Reckon it could be that stress gets to them and they become dangerous? Someone also didn't say if they would take that job at 40% reduction of benefits.....

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

The rules are you can't hire in after 30 years old.

I almost became an ATC but backed out at the last min

 

[Guest_Gingee]

I think it is such a stressful job that they don't want to stay in the business long. I think they can retire after maybe 20 years? It didn't seem like they had to stay long to get retirement.

 

[PRR 60]

Air traffic controllers are busy (most of the day), it is shift work, and the job can be stressful, particularly when the weather is acting up, but don’t let them tell you it is not a pretty good gig. Yes, they can retire at age 50 with just 20 years of service, or at any age with 25 years. And the pay is about as good as it gets for salaried, non-management employees with the only education requirement being high school (even though many have college degrees). With anywhere from five to eight weeks of paid time off a year, I think I could suffer some stress in that job.

But talking stress, is this job really that much more stressfull than a dispatcher on the NEC moving 135mph Acelas around NJT locals, or even a BNSF dispatcher who could inadvertently misalign switches in front of the Southwest Chief moving at 90mph? The threat of airborn collision has been greatly reduced since the advent of TCAS, so the old days of mistakenly flying one plane into another are all but gone. I don’t begrudge the controllers getting well paid, but many are now being paid more than the pilots they are directing and, if not a pay cut, maybe a freeze for a while is in order. The controllers are just about the only aspect of commercial aviation that have not been subjected to budget and pay cuts.

By the way, the controllers salary comes from the FAA operations budget, and the operations budget is the only portion of the FAA budget that is partially (about 1/3) paid from general taxes (everything else is paid from the ticket tax trust fund). The FAA general tax budget is lumped into the general DOT budget, as is Amtrak. So, in a sense, a portion of the ATC operations cost is directly in competition with Amtrak for DOT funding. Money saved at the FAA is theoretically money that could be appropriated to something else in the DOT. Any suggestions?

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

.
By the way, the controllers salary comes from the FAA operations budget, and the operations budget is the only portion of the FAA budget that is partially (about 1/3) paid from general taxes (everything else is paid from the ticket tax trust fund). The FAA general tax budget is lumped into the general DOT budget, as is Amtrak. So, in a sense, a portion of the ATC operations cost is directly in competition with Amtrak for DOT funding. Money saved at the FAA is theoretically money that could be appropriated to something else in the DOT. Any suggestions?

I agree.

 

[daveyb99]

A couple of comments to PRR20's post.

ALL federal employees earn either 4, 6, or 8 hours leave every two weeks. I do not know where the 8 weeks of leave comes from. If you tossed in holidays, which alot of the federal workforce gets off but controllers usually Do Not, then that might make up the difference.

Is ATC more stressful than a NEC dispatcher? Well, maybe. Instead of one misaligned switch with two trains at 90 mph, try 22+ aircraft at 550mph on random routes at multiple (and the same at times) altitudes. Trains can stop, aircraft cant. That makes ATC a whole different degree of difficultly.

Despite most thinking, appropriated funds may not be moved from agceny to agency or from one project to another, or salary savings to automation upgrades as the FAA would now like you to think. Those funds are distinct and can only be moved by Congressional Action. To "save" money in one area only means you "saved" something - you can not except under limited circumstances spend it somewhere else. Some agencies tried this by requesting funds for computers and such, Congress did not fund those requests, yet the agencies "saved" money from one account and spent it on something Congress did not fund. Congress prohibits that by language stating "monies may not be spent" and other limiting language.

 

[daveyb99]

The threat of airborn collision has been greatly reduced since the advent of TCAS, so the old days of mistakenly flying one plane into another are all but gone.

TCAS is a system of last resort. Designed primarily after the mid-airs in California with IFR vs VFR traffic, TCAS was NEVER intended to be a primary separation tool for IFR vs IFR traffic.

It is a controllers job to issue clearances which maintain separation, ensure the pilots read those clearances back correctly, and control the traffic flow always. If a controller misses something - and that does happen (like a bad readback of an altitude assignment), then TCAS can move from a passive to active and effects a coordinated manuever.

In fact, if a pilot receives a TCAS Resolution, they must act on that resolution REGARDLESS, and controllers CAN NOT countermand that action - even if TCAS is wrong. Many cases have occured where TCAS caused aircraft to nearly collide rather than remain separated by controllers.

 

[Treckie]

A couple of comments to PRR20's post.


Is ATC more stressful than a NEC dispatcher?  Well, maybe.  Instead of one misaligned switch with two trains at 90 mph, try 22+ aircraft at 550mph on random routes at multiple (and the same at times) altitudes.   Trains can stop, aircraft cant.  That makes ATC a whole different degree of difficultly.

I agree.....

 

[Treckie]

The threat of airborn collision has been greatly reduced since the advent of TCAS, so the old days of mistakenly flying one plane into another are all but gone.

TCAS is a system of last resort. Designed primarily after the mid-airs in California with IFR vs VFR traffic, TCAS was NEVER intended to be a primary separation tool for IFR vs IFR traffic.

It is a controllers job to issue clearances which maintain separation, ensure the pilots read those clearances back correctly, and control the traffic flow always. If a controller misses something - and that does happen (like a bad readback of an altitude assignment), then TCAS can move from a passive to active and effects a coordinated manuever.

In fact, if a pilot receives a TCAS Resolution, they must act on that resolution REGARDLESS, and controllers CAN NOT countermand that action - even if TCAS is wrong. Many cases have occured where TCAS caused aircraft to nearly collide rather than remain separated by controllers.

Well said daveyb99. Is this something you know as a fact or job related?

Amtrak flyer is a 737 pilot and I would like to know his take on this.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

For evrey hour that an ATC works they get a 20 min break so they work 40 min out of evrey hour due to the high stress of the job.

At least that was when i was going to be an ATC.

 

[Boxcar]

A couple of comments to PRR20's post.


Is ATC more stressful than a NEC dispatcher?  Well, maybe.  Instead of one misaligned switch with two trains at 90 mph, try 22+ aircraft at 550mph on random routes at multiple (and the same at times) altitudes.   Trains can stop, aircraft cant.  That makes ATC a whole different degree of difficultly.

Sort of the idea I got from my controller friend. Not that he had that many

airliners at that speed he still had several, plus he had the general aviation

aircraft as well. Throw those little Cessnas with all degree of pilots into the mix puttering around at 85 to 130 mph I think would be more stressful.

Two trains, one track = bad

Several airplanes ,multiple paths to one spot = bad also.......BD