All Ireland Rail Review makes case for new lines, electrification, and more frequency

[AmtrakMaineiac]

https://www.irishtimes.com/transpor...eed-intercity-travel-proposed-in-rail-review/
"A new Atlantic “railway spine” running from Ballina to Rosslare, a train line to Donegal, multiple freight connections to ports and higher-speed travel between major cities are expected to be included in the Island Strategic Rail Review, which is due to come before Cabinet later this month."

The review is all Ireland so includes improvements in Northern Ireland as well as the Republic.

However the news of the report was tempered by comments by the Taoiseach (Prime Minister) that more road investment is needed . So it is not clear how serious the government is in implementing this report.

 

[jiml]

However the news of the report was tempered by comments by the Taoiseach (Prime Minister) that more road investment is needed . So it is not clear how serious the government is in implementing this report.

It sounds like every other passenger rail report commissioned by governments. Lots of great ideas, little substance on how to make it happen, followed by years of government inaction until it's time for a new report. We perfected the system years ago.

 

[jis]

I don't know how things are economically speaking in the Republic, but as far as Northern Ireland goes, given the economic mess that Great Britain is in, I suspect nothing will happen.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

I don't know how things are economically speaking in the Republic, but as far as Northern Ireland goes, given the economic mess that Great Britain is in, I suspect nothing will happen.

Also the Northern Ireland government is in something of a suspended state due to political issues and unable to even commit to anything right now.

 

[cirdan]

I don't know how things are economically speaking in the Republic, but as far as Northern Ireland goes, given the economic mess that Great Britain is in, I suspect nothing will happen.

I disagree. Northern Ireland often gets preferential treatment financially, being a peripheral region and one that is furthermore at risk of leaving the UK. Northern Ireland has in recent years been fast tracked funding when it asked for it, including for hospitals and such, with the bar clearly being set lower than would be expected in other regions. I believe of all the cities in the UK, nobody gets more direct funding per capita than Belfast. To me the deciding factor will not be whether Westminster will support with money if it can, but whether the Northern Ireland administration, which is itself rather shambolic and seemingly more concerned with infighting than with delivering for its people (and as others have pointed out, presently actually suspended because it was unable to get its act together), will be able and willing to pull together a watertight plan and submit a serious application and then champion it through all the hoops.

 

[jis]

I disagree. Northern Ireland often gets preferential treatment financially, being a peripheral region and one that is furthermore at risk of leaving the UK. Northern Ireland has in recent years been fast tracked funding when it asked for it, including for hospitals and such, with the bar clearly being set lower than would be expected in other regions. I believe of all the cities in the UK, nobody gets more direct funding per capita than Belfast. To me the deciding factor will not be whether Westminster will support with money if it can, but whether the Northern Ireland administration, which is itself rather shambolic and seemingly more concerned with infighting than with delivering for its people (and as others have pointed out, presently actually suspended because it was unable to get its act together), will be able and willing to pull together a watertight plan and submit a serious application and then champion it through all the hoops.

So in the overall overall effect you really don't disagree but you disagree narrowly about the money part? Got it.

 

[cirdan]

So in the overall overall effect you really don't disagree but you disagree narrowly about the money part? Got it.

well, you implied that due to the overall economic mess the Uk isnin, that there (probably) isn't any money to put into big rail projects in Northern Ireland.

I said, availability money is not the main obstacle here, but the ability of the Northern Irish administration to apply for funds and to manage such a project effectively.

A bit like saying the mess CAHSR is in is the fault of the Biden Administration (and its predecessors) rather than of California's own making. You would probably agree with me that this statement is incorrect.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

From my own admittedly limited experience riding trains in Ireland I would say the basic network at present is decent with mostly new equipment and rebuilt track. However frequencies can be sketchy on many lines outside of the Dublin - Cork mainline. The suburban services for Dublin itself are pretty limited. Consider that Dublin is about the size of Boston yet Boston has 4 subway lines, Dublin none just the 2 LUAS trams and a less extensive commuter rail. The DART system which is the only electrified system in Ireland could be decent but suffers from aging equipment that is long past its shelf life, with corrosion of car bodies becoming a real problem. The city really needs a real metro plus more electrified commuter/ suburban lines including service to the airport.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Another article in Railway Gazette International with a bit more detail
https://www.railwaygazette.com/infr...-to-develop-railways-in-ireland/64592.article

 

[jis]

well, you implied that due to the overall economic mess the Uk isnin, that there (probably) isn't any money to put into big rail projects in Northern Ireland.

I said, availability money is not the main obstacle here, but the ability of the Northern Irish administration to apply for funds and to manage such a project effectively.

A bit like saying the mess CAHSR is in is the fault of the Biden Administration (and its predecessors) rather than of California's own making. You would probably agree with me that this statement is incorrect.

Don't get me wrong. I did not disagree with your correction at all. I apologize if I inadvertently gave that impression.

I think we agree that in the end it is unlikely that anything will come of this study, for the reasons you articulated.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

I said, availability money is not the main obstacle here, but the ability of the Northern Irish administration to apply for funds and to manage such a project effectively.

At this point with the current impasse they don't even have a government able to approve such a project. Another gift of Brexit which has thrown the whole status of NI into limbo, since the Good Friday agreement requires an open border between NI and the Republic, yet the EU requires border controls.

 

[cirdan]

since the Good Friday agreement requires an open border between NI and the Republic, yet the EU requires border controls.

I understand it is not so much border controls that the EU takes issue with but customs and excise controls on goods and services. The Eu has no mandate to restrict the movement of people across any border. That is what the Schengen agreement is for. Neither Ireland nor the UK is or ever was a signatory of Schengen, and in fact the UK and Ireland (together with some of the smaller independent islands) form the CTA which pre-dates both Schengen and the EU itself by many years and grants far reaching mutual rights to citizens of the respective countries, allowing them to not only travel freely across the CTA area but also to engage in economic activity and even vote and stand for election.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

I understand it is not so much border controls that the EU takes issue with but customs and excise controls on goods and services. The Eu has no mandate to restrict the movement of people across any border. That is what the Schengen agreement is for. Neither Ireland nor the UK is or ever was a signatory of Schengen, and in fact the UK and Ireland (together with some of the smaller independent islands) form the CTA which pre-dates both Schengen and the EU itself by many years and grants far reaching mutual rights to citizens of the respective countries, allowing them to not only travel freely across the CTA area but also to engage in economic activity and even vote and stand for election.

Point taken, thanks for clarifying. Although I understand lately even within Schengen some countries have instituted passport checks at borders mainly to control "irregular migration". This is controversial as the checks are random and thus there is the danger of racial or other profiling.