Amtak has no monopoly on bad service

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Two hunters were running in the woods with an angry bear in hot pursuit. One said, "I don't know if I can keep running faster than this bear." The other one says, "I don't need to run faster than the bear, I just need to run faster than you."

Sometimes on this forum, people write about some experience on Amtrak where they get less than perfect service from Amtrak personnel. On the basis of the negative experience, people cry that Amtrak is doomed and iif those lazy government/union workers at Amtrak aren't whipped into sahpe, passenger rail service in the US is doomed. The trouble with this line of reasoning is that it assumes that the competition has no problems in this area. I had an experience last week that indicates that may not be the case.

I was up in my camp in the Maine woods and made a 4 hour drive to the Manchester NH airport to pick up up my wife and daughter, who were flying up from Baltimore. About halfway through the drive, I get a call from my daughter iinforming me that the plane needed new windshield wipers (It was a clear sunny day), and they were estimating an hour dfelay. When I hit Concord, about 20 minutes from the airport and got out to shop at the New hamshire State Liquor Store, I got another call. My family was still sitting in BWI. Now it looked like the arrival would be 2 hours late. I went into Manchester and did a little more tax-free shopping to kill time, and got myself to the airport about 20 minutes before the estimated time of arrival. This is where I got to see Amtrak's competion at its less than best.

First off, when I walked into the terminal, the delayed flight was not on the arrivals monitor. Thus, I had no immediate way of knowing whether the plane has arrived. At every Amtrak station I've been to, train status, even for delayed trains, is routinely posted, even if only with a chalkboard. Then I went to look for an information desk, a standard feature on the larger stations in the northeast corridor. No such luck at the "Manchester-Boston Regional Airport." So I had to go the the Southwest Airlines ticket/check-in counter and get in line. At my turn, the agent was flustered becuase I didn't pull out my credit card to do a self-service check-in, but rather asked her about the delayed flight. She didn't seem so eager to want to help, but told me that the plane had arrived. The attitude was similar to the baggage agent at the Baltimore train station who was no so eager to check my skis a day ahead on #66 to Boston.

I went up to where they make people wait for arrivals and saw some people deplaning from a Southwest jet, but my family wasn't there. Finally, a lady with a smartphone told us that the southwest web page posted the flight as having just landed. After another 10 minutes or s, the plane finally taxied to the gate and unloaded the passengers.

Once reunited, we went down to the baggage claim, where it took them quite a while to let us know which baggage carousel was being used for our flight. Fortunately, the suitcases were there, and we were on our way. The flight was uneventful, but given that the flight time is 1:30, a 2 hour delay is the proprtional equivalent of boarding the Empire builder in Seattle and arriving in Chicago three days after the scheduled arrival time. (I.e. taking 6 days to make the trip.)

By the way, the "discount" Southwest Airlines nonrefundable fare was $100, purchased about 2 months in advance. The 14-day advance purchase fare on the Northeast Regional from BAL to BOS is about $75.

I don't mean to knock on Southwest Airlines. Most of the times I fly them, their service is excellent. But they are not perfect. And given that Southwest is a highly profitble entrepeneurial company, you can't accuse the reluctant agent of being some sort of government drone.

If this doesn't convince you, I can tell you a tale of some truly abysmal service I got from United Airlines at SFO from outsourced check-in agents who appeared to know nothing about their jobs. It appeared that United expected their pax to use the self-service check-in kiosks and carry on all their bags. I had paid axtra for baggage check, and I kind of excpected someone at the check-in countermight know how to do that.

So my experience, in general is that Amtrak people are no worse than the folks working in other transportation companies.
 
I think MARC Rider's sense of purpose and reason could and should cause a useful perspective and level headed thinking. One of the curses of the internet is the knee jerk OCD salad of act fast think never behaviors. Great reminder there is good and bad in all.
 
So you have statistical data showing that service at Amtrak is worse than other carriers, or is this just a case of "my anecdote is better than your anecdote"?
don't have the statistics to hand but i believe the otp for amtrak ld trains is worse than other carriers. the op was compaining about air service otp and lack of communication based on one incident. the train that goes nearest our town, the eb, has not, iirc, correctly been on time into chi since may
 
The flight was uneventful, but given that the flight time is 1:30, a 2 hour delay is the proprtional equivalent of boarding the Empire builder in Seattle and arriving in Chicago three days after the scheduled arrival time.
Those two examples are not even close to being equivalent. Your post makes some perfectly reasonable points about Southwest Airlines needing to improve their customer service levels. Unfortunately two wrongs don't make a right and they certainly don't paint Amtrak in a better light. If the only way you can make Amtrak look better is by criticizing other carriers with lopsided claims that two hours on Southwest equals three days on Amtrak then what's the point?
 
So you have statistical data showing that service at Amtrak is worse than other carriers, or is this just a case of "my anecdote is better than your anecdote"?
don't have the statistics to hand but i believe the otp for amtrak ld trains is worse than other carriers. the op was compaining about air service otp and lack of communication based on one incident. the train that goes nearest our town, the eb, has not, iirc, correctly been on time into chi since may
What exactly do OTP percentages have to do with poor customer service? The late flight was only a minor part of the OP.

What are you statistics on customer service?
 
Two hunters were running in the woods with an angry bear in hot pursuit. One said, "I don't know if I can keep running faster than this bear." The other one says, "I don't need to run faster than the bear, I just need to run faster than you."

Sometimes on this forum, people write about some experience on Amtrak where they get less than perfect service from Amtrak personnel. On the basis of the negative experience, people cry that Amtrak is doomed and iif those lazy government/union workers at Amtrak aren't whipped into sahpe, passenger rail service in the US is doomed. The trouble with this line of reasoning is that it assumes that the competition has no problems in this area. I had an experience last week that indicates that may not be the case.
The trouble with your line of reasoning is that it assumes that this is a black and white issues. Just because you had one bad experience you are ready to throw them in with Amtrak and Greyhound. Amtrak is much more consistent at delivering poor service. At least with the airlines you can walk into the airport with a reasonable expectation of only the TSA annoying you. With Amtrak I walk into the station thinking: I wonder if this crew is a bunch of jerks?
 
While I will agree that the onboard service and train service on an Amtrak train could improve I cannot agree that the Airlines offer better service. Several years back when my employmdent required me to fly, I had some terrible experiences. If it rains even less than an inch, expect a 2 hour or more delay coming into Newark Airport. The service sucked. The flight attendents on the airplaness are much the same as on Amtrak; some goood and some terrible. We've met some fantastic FSA and LSA's on Amtrak and in years of train travel have only met two people that didn't cut it. On seven autotrain trips only once did we encounter a poor LSA. He wasn't a bad guy just a bit lazy and disinterested. On trips to NOL and CHI by and large, the service has been acceptable. Let's not generalize here.
 
Hey MARC Rider. I appreciate your post. I truly do. However, I believe that it is safe to say that Amtrak has a much greater level of poor individual person-on-person service than Southwest. That being said, if there is any thing Amtrak is consistent at, it's total inconsistency.
 
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However, I believe that it is safe to say that Amtrak has a much greater level of poor individual person-on-person service than Southwest.
I have to disagree with you on that one. I've flown maybe 12,000 thousand miles on Southwest and traveled some 30,000 miles on Amtrak. My last experience on Southwest scarred me for life and I will never, ever fly with them again.

I'll spare you all the details, but to make a long story short, Southwest redirected our extremely late flight to Oakland, California instead of Reno. They told us on the plane to go to customer service in the Oakland airport and they would arrange alternate transportation to Reno. They lied just to get us off the plane. All of us on the aircraft went straight to the customer service desk where the woman in charge yelled over the announcement system that our misdirect was due to weather, and Southwest would not be taking responsibility for getting us to Reno. The situation turned sour very quickly and it felt like we would have a riot in the airport. We rented a car at our own expense and finally got to Reno about 14 hours late.

I compare that to a trip on Amtrak where heavy snow in Colorado delayed the California Zephyr by more than four hours. A customer service team got on the train at Galesburg and met with each connecting passenger. For me, they arranged a hotel room and cash money to pay for dinner and a taxi. The ticket counter at Chicago then booked me on the next day's train to Memphis without a problem at all.

Southwest may have a much higher customer satisfaction rate than Amtrak, but those statistics will never convince me to fly Southwest again. All of my negative experiences on Amtrak added up together do not compare to that one bad experience on Southwest.
 
I've traveled about a hundred times on Southwest and maybe fifty times on Amtrak. I don't think Southwest is all that great customer service wise, but their on-time performance has been good and they've never left me stranded. Amtrak hasn't left me stranded either, and their on-time performance is fine so long as you're arriving at the last station on the route when a lot of their padding kicks in. Southwest staff probably aren't that much different from Amtrak staff. However, on Amtrak I spend a lot more time and money on my ticket so I expect a more from the staff. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Unfortunately many of my trips on Amtrak often suffer from rude or indifferent employees who don't seem to care or even notice that you're a paying customer with plenty of other choices for travel. On Southwest a bad employee or two is something you only have to worry about for a couple hours and then you're done with them. On Amtrak that same employee will be with your for much longer, perhaps several more hours or even several days. By the time you can get away from them you've been stuck together long enough to make a memorable impression, possibly for all the wrong reasons.
 
However, I believe that it is safe to say that Amtrak has a much greater level of poor individual person-on-person service than Southwest.
I have to disagree with you on that one. I've flown maybe 12,000 thousand miles on Southwest and traveled some 30,000 miles on Amtrak. My last experience on Southwest scarred me for life and I will never, ever fly with them again.
And you are certainly qualified to make those decisions for yourself. I suppose this is where the term "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary" truly kicks in.

In my decade of riding Amtrak I've never really had poor service, either. Consistently indifferent service for sure. Excellent service, rarely. My kid rides 2 times and she gets to see someone reach her destination at a light show (crossing lights, police car lights, flashlights, ditch lights, etc). She gets all the luck.
 
I'm not going to compare Amtrak service with airline service, that opinion is up to you guys, but I would like to say that I've had horrible service on UA, poor service on DL, and decent service on AA. Then I flew UA again and still not the best, but not too bad. I don't fly WN because they only go domestic and for those I would take the train or bus and if it's urgent I'll use one of the "big ones" for FF miles. In general I would say Amtrak service is still better than the airlines, and Greyhound is really hit-and-miss. I had pretty good service on NW before they merged with DL, though, but yeah, I still prefer the train.
 
I'm not going to compare Amtrak service with airline service, that opinion is up to you guys, but I would like to say that I've had horrible service on UA, poor service on DL, and decent service on AA. Then I flew UA again and still not the best, but not too bad. I don't fly WN because they only go domestic and for those I would take the train or bus and if it's urgent I'll use one of the "big ones" for FF miles. In general I would say Amtrak service is still better than the airlines, and Greyhound is really hit-and-miss. I had pretty good service on NW before they merged with DL, though, but yeah, I still prefer the train.
Exactly how many flights do you have under your belt?
 
I'm not going to compare Amtrak service with airline service, that opinion is up to you guys, but I would like to say that I've had horrible service on UA, poor service on DL, and decent service on AA. Then I flew UA again and still not the best, but not too bad. I don't fly WN because they only go domestic and for those I would take the train or bus and if it's urgent I'll use one of the "big ones" for FF miles. In general I would say Amtrak service is still better than the airlines, and Greyhound is really hit-and-miss. I had pretty good service on NW before they merged with DL, though, but yeah, I still prefer the train.
Exactly how many flights do you have under your belt?
I don't know what you're trying to make out of it, but about 50-60.

Yeah, I know there's plenty of people on a.net who's flown many more than me, but I think I've done it enough to give my opinion. Those flight above were only flights I recently took and have a precise memory of.
 
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I'm not going to compare Amtrak service with airline service, that opinion is up to you guys, but I would like to say that I've had horrible service on UA, poor service on DL, and decent service on AA. Then I flew UA again and still not the best, but not too bad. I don't fly WN because they only go domestic and for those I would take the train or bus and if it's urgent I'll use one of the "big ones" for FF miles. In general I would say Amtrak service is still better than the airlines, and Greyhound is really hit-and-miss. I had pretty good service on NW before they merged with DL, though, but yeah, I still prefer the train.
Exactly how many flights do you have under your belt?
I don't know what you're trying to make out of it, but about 50-60. Yeah, I know there's plenty of people on a.net who's flown many more than me, but I think I've done it enough to give my opinion. Those flight above were only flights I recently took and have a precise memory of.
Fair enough. The reason I ask is because this forum is rife with people who rarely fly but nevertheless have surprisingly clear opinions about which airline is better or worse than another. At one time or another I've been loyal to three separate airlines and after a few hundred flights across most of majors I've come to the conclusion that today's domestic airline market is largely homogenized. Which makes sense seeing as how they're also highly consolidated. You probably won't see me making any blanket statements about US Airline X being substantially better or worse than US Airline Y because in my experience they're all pretty much the same. That's not to say that there are no differences at all and in some cases we still have a few regional airlines that are bucking the commodity trend. That being said, the differences that do exist usually revolve around how well the ever shrinking premium cabin is maintained and tended to, how exactly the loyalty program works, and how much of a presence an airline has at your home airport. Other than those relatively specific factors, any given story about how good or how bad a given trip was could have come from any of them. Today's air travel remains a commodity experience for most of us. As such the variables we encounter are more likely to be related to when and where we flew rather than who we took to get there. Half the time I buy a ticket from a major airline I end up on a subcontracted regional carrier. Those low wage doppelgangers are happy to pretend to be anyone who's willing to pay them, which is just about everyone at this point.
 
I enjoyed reading the OP. I really haven't experienced poor customer service much on either Amtrak or any of the airlines. In both cases, some employees I encountered were better than others, but none were truly bad. I admit my experience is limited (about a dozen Amtrak trips and about a dozen flights), but for me Amtrak really does about as well as any of the domestic airlines for service.

Now, the one flight I took Chicago-Hamburg on Lufthansa was awesome. I was in the middle seat over the wing on a 747, so I paid probably half of what some on that plane did, but they really took care of me well. They had three meal choices. I had the vegetarian, which was very good. The staff were always attentive and polite, and all of them spoke perfect English, regardless of whether they were American or German (I imagine they probably spoke perfect German too, but I couldn't speak to that).

Each method of travel has its place; for me, in most cases Amtrak competes with the car rather than the plane. Some trips for me are just too clunky to take Amtrak. Atlanta, for instance, is either a long two-night trip via CHI and WAS or via NOL. Or, a two-hour flight on Airtran direct from Branson for about $100pp each way. Airtran's not the greatest, but their service is absent more often than it is bad, and that I can tolerate.
 
Personally, I fall into that category of people who "bash Amtrak employees" more than other transportation employees? (And why I always try to add the qualifier, "There ARE good/great employees at Amtrak...")

WHY?

I think when traveling by rail, we often spend MORE TIME interacting with the on board staff, much more usually, than if we fly. Taking an 8-16-30 hour rail trip, and having a "bad crew" can be a nightmare. Can make one want to AVOID the diner completely, if it's truly a bad scene. However, on a flight (domestic) you max out at 6+ hours, and your butt is planted in your sear for the bulk of that time.

So, I think that's one reason why a "surly employee" on Amtrak makes much more of an impact.

IMHO.
 
Of course Amtrak doesn't have a monopoly on bad service but wouldn't it be grand if they did have a monopoly on good service? Or at least consistent service?
 
I'm not going to compare Amtrak service with airline service, that opinion is up to you guys, but I would like to say that I've had horrible service on UA, poor service on DL, and decent service on AA. Then I flew UA again and still not the best, but not too bad. I don't fly WN because they only go domestic and for those I would take the train or bus and if it's urgent I'll use one of the "big ones" for FF miles. In general I would say Amtrak service is still better than the airlines, and Greyhound is really hit-and-miss. I had pretty good service on NW before they merged with DL, though, but yeah, I still prefer the train.
Exactly how many flights do you have under your belt?
I don't know what you're trying to make out of it, but about 50-60. Yeah, I know there's plenty of people on a.net who's flown many more than me, but I think I've done it enough to give my opinion. Those flight above were only flights I recently took and have a precise memory of.
Fair enough. The reason I ask is because this forum is rife with people who rarely fly but nevertheless have surprisingly clear opinions about which airline is better or worse than another. At one time or another I've been loyal to three separate airlines and after a few hundred flights across most of majors I've come to the conclusion that today's domestic airline market is largely homogenized. Which makes sense seeing as how they're also highly consolidated. You probably won't see me making any blanket statements about US Airline X being substantially better or worse than US Airline Y because in my experience they're all pretty much the same. That's not to say that there are no differences at all and in some cases we still have a few regional airlines that are bucking the commodity trend. That being said, the differences that do exist usually revolve around how well the ever shrinking premium cabin is maintained and tended to, how exactly the loyalty program works, and how much of a presence an airline has at your home airport. Other than those relatively specific factors, any given story about how good or how bad a given trip was could have come from any of them. Today's air travel remains a commodity experience for most of us. As such the variables we encounter are more likely to be related to when and where we flew rather than who we took to get there. Half the time I buy a ticket from a major airline I end up on a subcontracted regional carrier. Those low wage doppelgangers are happy to pretend to be anyone who's willing to pay them, which is just about everyone at this point.
I agree with you. As I said, I'm only talking about recent flights. Things change around all the time. Really, the custormer service could depend a lot on the mood of the employee in the first place. That's why I'm not really sticking to one airline for everything, if I did I would not have flown on all those above recently. I usually fly the cheaper airline since they all have similar safety and comfort, but if I get a chance to fly on a rare plane, like a DC-9 or somthing like that, I'll take it if I have the money.

For the record, I don't think DL flies DC-9s anymore, I think they just retired them. Too bad, because I would have flown them just to ride a good old DC-9.
 
I was up in my camp in the Maine woods and made a 4 hour drive to the Manchester NH airport to pick up up my wife and daughter, who were flying up from Baltimore. About halfway through the drive, I get a call from my daughter iinforming me that the plane needed new windshield wipers (It was a clear sunny day), and they were estimating an hour dfelay. When I hit Concord, about 20 minutes from the airport and got out to shop at the New hamshire State Liquor Store, I got another call. My family was still sitting in BWI. Now it looked like the arrival would be 2 hours late. I went into Manchester and did a little more tax-free shopping to kill time, and got myself to the airport about 20 minutes before the estimated time of arrival. This is where I got to see Amtrak's competion at its less than best.
This is just a comment on the SWA plane not about anybody's service. Windshield wipers are on the "mandatory equipment list" for this aircraft. It matters not about what the weather may be right then and there, the operator MUST have operable windshield wipers or by requlation the plane cannot take off. BTW, the reasoning for it I am sure is because as soon as you leave the ground you may run into any kind of weather, so all operable equipment is very important.
 
Weather is one of the major contributing factors to accidents in aviation. It's also the most dynamic, changing all the time. Also, when you consider the speed at which an aircraft travels, there is NO WAY you can tell by looking outside what the weather will be like along your route and at your destination. Yes, in clear blue skies, your windshield wipers must work to take off.
 
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