Amtrak Book Update

[Green Maned Lion]

Amtrak Book Update.

I haven't mentioned the book I mentioned earlier, but I have been working on it. I've refined the concept slightly. I believe I am going to end up producing three versions of it, perhaps 2. The third and possibly fourth variation are the other two but with CD versions of certain databases, primarily related to Heritage cars. The names of the first two would be something along the lines of "The Amtrak Encyclopedia" and "The Complete Guide to Amtrak".

The first book would be extremely comprehensive, contain everything found in the first, and be primarily a reference book with some "opinion" thrown in. I imagine my primary audience would be libraries, universities, and private Amtrak historians. The second version would be much of the first book, but with several hundred pages of lists removed.

There are two reasons I think the two versions would be needed. The first is that the general public, minor railfans, and people generally interested in transportation or history would not be willing to buy a 2-3 inch thick book full of lists they couldn't really understand, nor have any interest in reading. And therefor would not be interested in paying the price such a thorough and large book would command. On the other hand, there would be a cadre of buyers interested in those things and willing to pay the price. By issuing two versions, I catch both parts of the market.

Here's what I have in mind to have the first book contain:

1) A brief history of what led to Amtrak. This would include things such as the decline of ridership, regulation, and increasing costs.

2) A brief list of all the routes being operated on April 30th, 1971 Including which continued into Amtrak.

3) A general history of Amtrak. This would be long, contain several chapters, and aim to be interesting- but thorough.

4) A set of biographies of people central to Amtrak Including, for instance, Roger Lewis, Paul Reistrup, W.G. Claytor, Downs, Warrington, Gunn, Kummant, Barbara Richardson, and so on. Not just CEOs. I'd probably include Durbin, Lautenberg, and McCain in there. Those not directly linked to the company would have a more Amtrak-focused biography.

5) A list of every specific route Amtrak served Their history, geography, equipment, and important changes. I'd say that each route would take up at least half a page, some a whole page.

6) Entries on each kind of motive power Amtrak used. This would include heritage items, Amtrak designed items, by type. Each entry would include important data and take up approximately a page.

7) A roster of motive power. This would include their types, who they originally ran with if not Amtrak designed, their numbers, and when they were retired, by number.

8) Entries on each kind of Multi Unit and Trainset Amtrak used. This would include the TurboTrain, the Turboliner, the Acela, the Metroliner, and so on. Also including tech-specs.

9) A roster of MUs and Trainsets. As with the Motive power, this would include numbers, heritage, and dates of retirement.

10) Entries on each individual type of Heritage and pre-HEP car. This would be fairly general, regardless of builder, specific layout, and so on. So, some examples would be "Dome-Coach", "Bar-Lounge", and "Lounge-Observation". A page for each. Including example pictures and diagram.

11) Entries on each individual Pre-HEP car plan. About half a page for each. This would include the name, some technical specifications, and a design diagram.

12) Entries on each Amtrak-designed car or trainset. This would be a few pages per, I'd guess. Diagrams, pictures, a brief history, and features.

13) A complete set of car rosters. This would include every Amtrak car ever carried on Amtrak's roster after mid '72. I don't want to bother with the one-way-trip to the scrapyard heaps. Amtrak numbers, car type, builder, Heritage numbers, date of scrapping, heritage of the car owner wise - as much as possible- example:

Baggage-Dorm 1521: Budd, 1947. Florida East Coast St. Joris River -> Seaboard Air Line 6058 -> Seaboard Coast Line 5021. Built as Baggage-Char car, rebuilt as Baggage Dorm in 1955. (I don't know the date this car was scrapped, or much of its history after '72, but for pretend, the following Rebuilt as Heritage car 1825 in 1978, scrapped 1994.

14) A list of different accomodations Amtrak has offered. E.G. Parlor, Club, Business, First Class, Coach Roomette, Duplex Roomette, Double Roomette, Bedroom, Bedroom Suite, Drawing room, etc.

15) A history of the kinds of dining and food service offered on Amtrak.

16) All Amtrak stations now and in the past.

The second book would be much less comprehensive. If I don't list the number, that data won't be included:

1) A brief history of what led to Amtrak. This would include things such as the decline of ridership, regulation, and increasing costs.

3) A general history of Amtrak. This would, perhaps, be a bit briefer.

5) A list of every specific route Amtrak served. This would be much briefer, between 2 and 4 routes per page.

6) Entries on each kind of motive power Amtrak used. This would be less specific. For eample, while the first book would include E6, E7, and E8, this one would include E/F types, with a seperate entry for the FL-9. The Genesis in the other would be listed as P40/P42, and P32AC-DM, while this would just call them Genesis locomotives. There would be less specific tech specs, as well.

8) Entries on each kind of Multi Unit and Trainset Amtrak used. Again, shorter with less technical specifications.

10) Entries on each individual type of Heritage and pre-HEP car. This would be kept in its entirety.

12) Entries on each Amtrak-designed car or trainset. This would be briefer, perhaps a page each.

14) A list of different accomodations Amtrak has offered. E.G. Parlor, Club, Business, First Class, Coach Roomette, Duplex Roomette, Double Roomette, Bedroom, Bedroom Suite, Drawing room, etc.

15) A history of the kinds of dining and food service offered on Amtrak.

I am about half way through wading through heritage cars in my database, entered from both Robert Wayners 1972 Amtrak Car Spotter and a 1976 Amtrak "Equipment plan and data" manual. If any of you are interested in seeing what I have so far, I will either PM you a PDF or, if enough of you want it, upload it somewhere and offer a link for download. I have about 1300 specific types entered so far. Corrections are welcome! So is additional information.

I started this with limited knowledge on Heritage cars, so I am learning with each page of the books I turn. I am sure some of my reading of the information is ignorant, and if you know more or better than I do, I would really appreciate the help! Someone told me this is a monumental undertaking. You're right. It is. And tedious. But I am gonna finish what I started.

There were several reasons I started this post. The primary one is I need some help and advice. I have no idea when cars were retired, but I'm sure a list of same exists somewhere. Anyone have any idea where I can get it, and how I can go about it? I imagine Amtrak has such a list.

Secondly, lets say I published this book. I offer the first book (the long one) for about $50, including mostly (say 98%) correct information (I'll try my best, but I'm sure some mistakes will exist) as listed above, and the second for $25, including what's above with a similar accuracy percentage. Would you be interested in one, and if so which? I won't hold you to your interest, I'm just trying to gauge it. I assume a few people (mostly those with kids) would be interested in both. If so, I'd be interested to know that.

Thirdly, I know quite a bit about Amtrak. My knowledge is growing by leaps every day with this project. However, I am not going to pretend my knowledge is anywhere near that of some of you. So I could use some editors/proof readers. I could even use a co-author, if anyone is interested. I am pretty good at compiling information from monotonous first order research. I am not so good with summarizing, so the help I'd particularly appreciate is in that area. You guys know me by now. I ramble, and my language can be caustic. If you are interested in either, let me know!

I am looking to get a full time job soon, so this is going to be a part time project. I don't expect to have it fully publishable until atleast 2010, although I'd love to do it faster than that.

So.. uh, what you all think?

Edit: I forgot acoomodation types, and history of dining. Added them.

Edit 2: I forgot that I wanted to do brief histories of each station. These would range from 1/16th of a page to a page, depending on the station. Added.

 

[AAARGH!]

Just a thought... You could use the same book title for both, but with "Unabridged" for the first and "Abridged" for the second. But, if you think that will cause confusion, give them different titles.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I might be able to help in some ways down the road from time to time. We can talk further, you can e-mail me.

I have a set of three books which list the disposition of all pre-Amtrak streamlined cars. It is copyright about 1980 or 81. That mgiht help.I will come back Monday with the names of those three volumns to see if you can find them on the internet or somewhere.

You may have some of the same Robert Waynor books that I have.

I notice in your item 14 list of Amtrak accommodations something called "coach roomette." Not sure what you mean---do you mean a slumbercoach? If so they were called slumbercoach single rooms and slumbercoach double rooms.

A lot of old timetables contained diagrams of sleeping car rooms.

Yeah, I should be able to help. Let me know.

 

[frj1983]

GML,

I don't want to dash your enthusiasm, but before you get started and put a lot of work into this, I must pose a question: Have you spoken with any publishers about their interest in publishing such a book/s?

As a Librarian, I'd suggest that you do so by going here:

http://www.motorbooks.com/Store/contactus.aspx

If you click on "Book Proposal Guidelines," it will give you an idea of what one publisher suggests/expects and it might be good to talk with someone there about your idea...they might be able to offer you some suggestions as you begin this process.

Good Luck!

 

[MrEd]

might want to include chapter on the sunset limited. if you time it right, book will come out when service is restored to florida next year, would make for a great promotion.

 

[saxman]

might want to include chapter on the sunset limited. if you time it right, book will come out when service is restored to florida next year, would make for a great promotion.

Where did you hear this?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

might want to include chapter on the sunset limited. if you time it right, book will come out when service is restored to florida next year, would make for a great promotion.

If service to the SSL east of Florida was restored next year without an act of Congress, I would be shocked. Also, if this book was out by next year, I'd be astonished.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I notice in your item 14 list of Amtrak accommodations something called "coach roomette." Not sure what you mean---do you mean a slumbercoach? If so they were called slumbercoach single rooms and slumbercoach double rooms.

Its called "GML forgot a comma." As in Coach, Roomette. Told you there'd be mistakes.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I notice in your item 14 list of Amtrak accommodations something called "coach roomette." Not sure what you mean---do you mean a slumbercoach? If so they were called slumbercoach single rooms and slumbercoach double rooms.

Its called "GML forgot a comma." As in Coach, Roomette. Told you there'd be mistakes.

As mentioned in my earlier post here are books which you might find helpful.

They are called "Streamliner cars Vo1. 1" and then Vol. 2 and Vol. 3.

They were by W. David Randall, RPC Publications, P.o. Box 1097, Godfrey, ILL 62035

You might find them helpful with disposition of cars turned over to Amtrak.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

5) A list of every specific route Amtrak served Their history, geography, equipment, and important changes. I'd say that each route would take up at least half a page, some a whole page.

I think you could come up with significantly more information per route than that. Possibly a couple pages per station stop if you went into the history of train stations serving each city and detailing connecting services. Going into lots of details about the stations might also broaden the appeal of the book, because you could potentially include lots of photographs of those stations, and I think some of the fancier stations may appeal to those who are not railfans. On the other hand, maybe there are already other books out there covering this; I don't know.

Information on how the schedule has evolved on a given route over time might also be interesting.

6) Entries on each kind of motive power Amtrak used. This would include heritage items, Amtrak designed items, by type. Each entry would include important data and take up approximately a page.

Does important data include giving the reader a sense of how long it takes a train to accelerate to its top speed, and how quickly the train can't brake?

I am about half way through wading through heritage cars in my database, entered from both Robert Wayners 1972 Amtrak Car Spotter

I wonder if you risk copyright infringement there. It's probably not OK (to give an extreme example) for you to photocopy all of Amtrak Car Spotter and give me a copy, but on the other hand, an author cannot use copyright to claim a monopoly on simple facts. Beyond that, I don't know exactly where the line is.

Secondly, lets say I published this book. I offer the first book (the long one) for about $50, including mostly (say 98%) correct information (I'll try my best, but I'm sure some mistakes will exist) as listed above, and the second for $25, including what's above with a similar accuracy percentage. Would you be interested in one, and if so which? I won't hold you to your interest, I'm just trying to gauge it. I assume a few people (mostly those with kids) would be interested in both. If so, I'd be interested to know that.

I think I'd want to look at a copy, but I've decided that one of the great things my local library can do for me is free up space on my shelves by storing books after I've read them, and that is a great argument for preferring my local library over actually owning books (with the exception of books that I actually want to keep around for reference).

 

[Konrad]

Amtrak Book Update.
I haven't mentioned the book I mentioned earlier, but I have been working on it. I've refined the concept slightly. I believe I am going to end up producing three versions of it, perhaps 2. The third and possibly fourth variation are the other two but with CD versions of certain databases, primarily related to Heritage cars. The names of the first two would be something along the lines of "The Amtrak Encyclopedia" and "The Complete Guide to Amtrak".

The first book would be extremely comprehensive, contain everything found in the first, and be primarily a reference book with some "opinion" thrown in. I imagine my primary audience would be libraries, universities, and private Amtrak historians. The second version would be much of the first book, but with several hundred pages of lists removed.

There are two reasons I think the two versions would be needed. The first is that the general public, minor railfans, and people generally interested in transportation or history would not be willing to buy a 2-3 inch thick book full of lists they couldn't really understand, nor have any interest in reading. And therefor would not be interested in paying the price such a thorough and large book would command. On the other hand, there would be a cadre of buyers interested in those things and willing to pay the price. By issuing two versions, I catch both parts of the market.

Here's what I have in mind to have the first book contain:

1) A brief history of what led to Amtrak. This would include things such as the decline of ridership, regulation, and increasing costs.

2) A brief list of all the routes being operated on April 30th, 1971 Including which continued into Amtrak.

3) A general history of Amtrak. This would be long, contain several chapters, and aim to be interesting- but thorough.

4) A set of biographies of people central to Amtrak Including, for instance, Roger Lewis, Paul Reistrup, W.G. Claytor, Downs, Warrington, Gunn, Kummant, Barbara Richardson, and so on. Not just CEOs. I'd probably include Durbin, Lautenberg, and McCain in there. Those not directly linked to the company would have a more Amtrak-focused biography.

5) A list of every specific route Amtrak served Their history, geography, equipment, and important changes. I'd say that each route would take up at least half a page, some a whole page.

6) Entries on each kind of motive power Amtrak used. This would include heritage items, Amtrak designed items, by type. Each entry would include important data and take up approximately a page.

7) A roster of motive power. This would include their types, who they originally ran with if not Amtrak designed, their numbers, and when they were retired, by number.

8) Entries on each kind of Multi Unit and Trainset Amtrak used. This would include the TurboTrain, the Turboliner, the Acela, the Metroliner, and so on. Also including tech-specs.

9) A roster of MUs and Trainsets. As with the Motive power, this would include numbers, heritage, and dates of retirement.

10) Entries on each individual type of Heritage and pre-HEP car. This would be fairly general, regardless of builder, specific layout, and so on. So, some examples would be "Dome-Coach", "Bar-Lounge", and "Lounge-Observation". A page for each. Including example pictures and diagram.

11) Entries on each individual Pre-HEP car plan. About half a page for each. This would include the name, some technical specifications, and a design diagram.

12) Entries on each Amtrak-designed car or trainset. This would be a few pages per, I'd guess. Diagrams, pictures, a brief history, and features.

13) A complete set of car rosters. This would include every Amtrak car ever carried on Amtrak's roster after mid '72. I don't want to bother with the one-way-trip to the scrapyard heaps. Amtrak numbers, car type, builder, Heritage numbers, date of scrapping, heritage of the car owner wise - as much as possible- example:

Baggage-Dorm 1521: Budd, 1947. Florida East Coast St. Joris River -> Seaboard Air Line 6058 -> Seaboard Coast Line 5021. Built as Baggage-Char car, rebuilt as Baggage Dorm in 1955. (I don't know the date this car was scrapped, or much of its history after '72, but for pretend, the following Rebuilt as Heritage car 1825 in 1978, scrapped 1994.

14) A list of different accomodations Amtrak has offered. E.G. Parlor, Club, Business, First Class, Coach Roomette, Duplex Roomette, Double Roomette, Bedroom, Bedroom Suite, Drawing room, etc.

15) A history of the kinds of dining and food service offered on Amtrak.

 

The second book would be much less comprehensive. If I don't list the number, that data won't be included:

 

1) A brief history of what led to Amtrak. This would include things such as the decline of ridership, regulation, and increasing costs.

3) A general history of Amtrak. This would, perhaps, be a bit briefer.

5) A list of every specific route Amtrak served. This would be much briefer, between 2 and 4 routes per page.

6) Entries on each kind of motive power Amtrak used. This would be less specific. For eample, while the first book would include E6, E7, and E8, this one would include E/F types, with a seperate entry for the FL-9. The Genesis in the other would be listed as P40/P42, and P32AC-DM, while this would just call them Genesis locomotives. There would be less specific tech specs, as well.

8) Entries on each kind of Multi Unit and Trainset Amtrak used. Again, shorter with less technical specifications.

10) Entries on each individual type of Heritage and pre-HEP car. This would be kept in its entirety.

12) Entries on each Amtrak-designed car or trainset. This would be briefer, perhaps a page each.

14) A list of different accomodations Amtrak has offered. E.G. Parlor, Club, Business, First Class, Coach Roomette, Duplex Roomette, Double Roomette, Bedroom, Bedroom Suite, Drawing room, etc.

15) A history of the kinds of dining and food service offered on Amtrak.

 

I am about half way through wading through heritage cars in my database, entered from both Robert Wayners 1972 Amtrak Car Spotter and a 1976 Amtrak "Equipment plan and data" manual. If any of you are interested in seeing what I have so far, I will either PM you a PDF or, if enough of you want it, upload it somewhere and offer a link for download. I have about 1300 specific types entered so far. Corrections are welcome! So is additional information.

 

I started this with limited knowledge on Heritage cars, so I am learning with each page of the books I turn. I am sure some of my reading of the information is ignorant, and if you know more or better than I do, I would really appreciate the help! Someone told me this is a monumental undertaking. You're right. It is. And tedious. But I am gonna finish what I started.

 

There were several reasons I started this post. The primary one is I need some help and advice. I have no idea when cars were retired, but I'm sure a list of same exists somewhere. Anyone have any idea where I can get it, and how I can go about it? I imagine Amtrak has such a list.

 

Secondly, lets say I published this book. I offer the first book (the long one) for about $50, including mostly (say 98%) correct information (I'll try my best, but I'm sure some mistakes will exist) as listed above, and the second for $25, including what's above with a similar accuracy percentage. Would you be interested in one, and if so which? I won't hold you to your interest, I'm just trying to gauge it. I assume a few people (mostly those with kids) would be interested in both. If so, I'd be interested to know that.

 

Thirdly, I know quite a bit about Amtrak. My knowledge is growing by leaps every day with this project. However, I am not going to pretend my knowledge is anywhere near that of some of you. So I could use some editors/proof readers. I could even use a co-author, if anyone is interested. I am pretty good at compiling information from monotonous first order research. I am not so good with summarizing, so the help I'd particularly appreciate is in that area. You guys know me by now. I ramble, and my language can be caustic. If you are interested in either, let me know!

 

I am looking to get a full time job soon, so this is going to be a part time project. I don't expect to have it fully publishable until atleast 2010, although I'd love to do it faster than that.

 

So.. uh, what you all think?

 

Edit: I forgot acoomodation types, and history of dining. Added them.

 

1) A brief history of what led to Amtrak.

- You might find this subject already extensively (and tediously) canvassed in 'Twilight of the Great Trains' by Fred W Fraily (Kalmbach Books ISBN0-89024-178-3). If you precis some of the data from this publication in your book it may provide a readable resource for the general reading public.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

As mentioned in my earlier post here are books which you might find helpful.
They are called "Streamliner cars Vo1. 1" and then Vol. 2 and Vol. 3.

They were by W. David Randall, RPC Publications, P.o. Box 1097, Godfrey, ILL 62035

You might find them helpful with disposition of cars turned over to Amtrak.

Thanks, Bill. I'm sure I will.

I think you could come up with significantly more information per route than that. Possibly a couple pages per station stop if you went into the history of train stations serving each city and detailing connecting services. Going into lots of details about the stations might also broaden the appeal of the book, because you could potentially include lots of photographs of those stations, and I think some of the fancier stations may appeal to those who are not railfans. On the other hand, maybe there are already other books out there covering this; I don't know.
Information on how the schedule has evolved on a given route over time might also be interesting.

I'm sure I could too. But there is a point where you stop writing a book and start simply compiling all data on a subject and binding it. I don't want to do that. Also, I would really like to keep the larger of the two books to one volume, and I suspect that I'm already pushing that.

Actually, though, I forgot to mention that I intended to go into a list and history of Amtrak's stations, varying by how important they are. I may or may not actually do that part, I might just stick to stations that I find worth doing. As you may or may not know, I have a thing for grand stations.

Does important data include giving the reader a sense of how long it takes a train to accelerate to its top speed, and how quickly the train can't brake?

No, nor could it. The Springfield Shuttles, I am sure, accelerate like a bat outta hell compared to the CONO.

I wonder if you risk copyright infringement there. It's probably not OK (to give an extreme example) for you to photocopy all of Amtrak Car Spotter and give me a copy, but on the other hand, an author cannot use copyright to claim a monopoly on simple facts. Beyond that, I don't know exactly where the line is.

I just got outta college. And I majored in "Entrepreneurship and Innovation". Trust me, I know, to a greater degree than I ever wanted to about infringing on copyrights. I had it stuffed into me ad nauseam. There is nothing wrong with riding on the back of someone elses work, so long as you don't claim it as your own. Especially if said work is a compilation of publicly available information. I certainly intend to cite Robert Wayner as a source in my bibliography. The information, though, is publicly available if one looks for it. I'm not copying the list precisely, I'm putting its information into a database. If you'd be interested, Joel, I'll send you a PDF of the information I have so far.

I think I'd want to look at a copy, but I've decided that one of the great things my local library can do for me is free up space on my shelves by storing books after I've read them, and that is a great argument for preferring my local library over actually owning books (with the exception of books that I actually want to keep around for reference).

Thank you for that information. As I said, I'd be aiming for the thick one to go to foamers and institutional repositories of books, while the second one is aimed more at the regular joe.

1) A brief history of what led to Amtrak.- You might find this subject already extensively (and tediously) canvassed in 'Twilight of the Great Trains' by Fred W Fraily (Kalmbach Books ISBN0-89024-178-3). If you precis some of the data from this publication in your book it may provide a readable resource for the general reading public.

Thank you very much for that information, I am sure it will be of great use to me.

 

[RailFanLNK]

How bout a chapter on "converts"? You know...us folks here on the site that have given up air travel as much as possible or never fly anymore and use the train. I know they have a big festival of "Mooning Amtrak" maybe we can start up a festival of "mooning airplanes!" :lol:

 

[Guest]

"I know they have a big festival of "Mooning "

have is now had

The police dispersed the most recent one because of the problems.