Amtrak Community Dining

[Amfleet]

The attendent (not rude at all) told me it was a waste because passengers can't sit there because of a fear of them falling backwards or off the stool and getting injured. Is this really true or someone pulling my leg?

The stools were poorly designed and were often not properly bolted to the floor. They also presented a major hazard of passengers falling off and injuring themselves. The other reason the counter seating is not used is because the crew needs that area for prep work. You'll notice quite often when walking by the counter there will be salads, rolls, or whatnot spread out on it. Some of the cars have even had the stools removed.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Look up the word "introvert' in the dictionary and you will see a picture of me. However, I do usually enjoy the dining car experience. Hate to be repititious, the very line that PRR did not want o hear but I have to agree that some of my fondest memories are people I, introvert that I am , have met in the dining car.

I find that MOST of the people can be fun, even surprisingly so. Even those who somehow did not "look" like they would be very friendly or very interesting. Many times I can give other people really solid help about the train, what to expect, what is going on, why this happened or that and there is a reward which comes from helping one of the many people who have no clue about trains.

As noted on anther post, there are times, under very special circumstances(so as not to overburden the attendant) that I choose to eat in my room.

I normally travel by myself. Should I be with one or two other people, I might feel a little different about it. But there have been times when I, alone, have been joined with a famiy of three and done well. I remember one family traveling east for the first time in their lives, I was able to alert them to be on the left side of the train as it neared WAS, so they could see the national monuments for the very first time in their t lives, things like that.

I agree it is uncomfortable if the conversation gets no further than "pass the salt". In all my travel only once did I feel really insulted or disturbed by a fellow diner. A few were " so what"---but most have been at least moderately enjoyable if not extrremely enjoyable.

 

[Guest]

I have also witnessed an older couple being seated with "Snoop Doggy Dog" and his partner in crime on another occasion. The old people probably wanted to have a conversation about anything besides rap music, the latest gang colors, and the newest trend of wearing a baseball cap or how many of their releatives have been on the Morey or Jerry Springer show in the past year.

I'm a little concerned about the generalizations of the African American customers in the dining car. I have worked in several "innercity" schools in Chicago that do have gangbangers, etc. Many African American people who are not gangbangers wear similar clothes and styles as the pair in the dining car because that is what is in style in the community. Af first glance, they might look like a gang banger, but when you talk to them you find out that they are nice, intelligent people.

Also, this pair was probably might have been as uncomfortable as the old old white couple.

In my mind, behavior is more of an indicator of criminalilty than clothing. If they were lound, boisterous, and loudly talking about gang colors, than thay would be another issue.

On a slightly unrelated but related note, my travels on Amtrak in the 1970's as a kid helped prepare me to work in predominately black schools in Chicago. On my train rides, I met many kinds of people from different backgrounds. I always found the blacks on Amtrak to be friendly. So when I started working in the Chicago Public School sytem, I was comfortable with my colleagues and students, and thus more effective in completing my teaching duties.

Steve 4031, your concerns are very valid and we all need to be careful about generalizations, however, Amtrakmichigan never said his description of the people as "Snoop Doggy Dog" was based on color and clothing alone. Actually he does not say how or why he came to that conclusion at all. It may very well have been due to behavior.

We all need to be carefull about jumping to conclusions. | )

That said, you are correct that we need to be very, very careful about first impressions. This is one thing the internet has taught me. I have been in a chat page/internet club about Yellowstone National Park since 1997. As a result of friendships built I have had people from Delft Netherlands into my home and met with many of these people at a club gathering in Yellowstone and at other gatherings. Some of the people I have become friends with, I may never have talked to in person based on many factors: age, dress, income level, background, language, etc.

Sometimes the internets lack of face to face contact and therefore lack of "first impressions" frees us from preconcieved views of others. Something that we all deal with to one extent or another. Any situation that causes us to interact with those different from ourselves - like Amtrak - can be helpful.

It is great that you are a teacher in Chicago! I hope you plug train travel while teaching! | )

 

[Guest]

So go eat in the snack bar if you don't like it - nobody's forcing you to eat in the diner.

When Amtrak either allows sleeping passengers to get their "included in the fare" meals from the snack car or doesn't automatically include meals in a sleeping car ticket, I'd be glad to get any food I want from the snack car.

I understand why trains have a community arrangement in the dining car and I have no argument against it. I don't like it, either, but I accept it. What I don't understand is why sleeping car passengers are required to pay for meals they may or may not want.

Just as an example, if I'm traveling from Chicago to Emeryville aboard the California Zephyr, I believe I would have six meals included in my fare. (Two dinners, two lunches, two breakfasts) I don't need all of those meals and could easily suffice on fewer and smaller meals of items that I either bring along myself or purchase in the snack car. I would greatly appreciate a reduced fare to have this option.

 

[amtrakmichigan]

To clear the air of my recent post, I need to go into a little further detail.

Using the name "Snoop doggy dog" is a name of a 'type' of person that I thought most of you could refer to. Not thinking that some people on the forum would automatically think I am picking on black people because of Snoop doggy dog's race. I suppose I really should have used Emenem as a better example. But then again if I said that, I suppose some might think I am bashing white people. It goes to show I guess one can't always win. The Snoop doggy dog description was used to paint a picture of what these guys looked like. It looks like I failed to mention the swearing and lack of respect of an older couple seated with them and other surrounding passengers.

On another note the example I used was a true story that unfolded at the table beside me, not a made up story to put down a certain group of people.

Besides I am not overly thrilled about the idea of having a nice sit down dinner with someone who tries to copy the dress and behavior of a gangster. I have no respect for people who copy a big city gangsters way of dress and life of crime and hurting people. I would never ever invite such a person to my house to sit at my dinner table with my family, so I guess I don't expect or expect others that feel the same way as me to do just that on a train.

 

[haolerider]

This is a great discussion about the real "sociology of life"....

You can almost see the various types we have all described as they enter the dining car.....a single guy does not look like he wants to sit with anyone, an older single lady looks as though she is desparate to sit with someone; a young teenager wants to be left alone.....they are all somewhat aprehensive about the dining car.....however, when they leave, most of the traverers I have observed are happy and have enjoyed themselves meeting new people.

The most interesting experience I have had on Amtrak involved a guy who was middle-aged, shaved head - covered with tattoos over his entire body, who was seated with me for breakfast. My immediate thought was: "What in the world am I going to talk about with this guy?" As it turned out, he was a fasciniting person, who had been all over the world and had done a little bit of everything. It was an extremely interesting hour and a half and we also had lunch together. The only negative thing, was that he was on his way to a custody hearing to try and get custody for his son, from his ex-wife. I hope he won, but if first impressions are important, he was going to have a hard time.

I guess the morale of the story is: "Don't judge a book by its cover - or a passenger buy their appearance!"

 

[amtrakmichigan]

So go eat in the snack bar if you don't like it - nobody's forcing you to eat in the diner.

When Amtrak either allows sleeping passengers to get their "included in the fare" meals from the snack car or doesn't automatically include meals in a sleeping car ticket, I'd be glad to get any food I want from the snack car.

I understand why trains have a community arrangement in the dining car and I have no argument against it. I don't like it, either, but I accept it. What I don't understand is why sleeping car passengers are required to pay for meals they may or may not want.

Just as an example, if I'm traveling from Chicago to Emeryville aboard the California Zephyr, I believe I would have six meals included in my fare. (Two dinners, two lunches, two breakfasts) I don't need all of those meals and could easily suffice on fewer and smaller meals of items that I either bring along myself or purchase in the snack car. I would greatly appreciate a reduced fare to have this option.

This is probably a topic for a new thread, but I will put my input in anyway.

This is a marketing technique that many companies large and small use often. Just a very basic and small example would be my neighborhood automatic carwash. You can buy a prepaid coupon book 5 washes for $20 or something like that. What the carwash is hoping that will happen is that you forget or loose your coupon book. If you do, then that's free money in their pockets. On Amtraks point of view they probably love the passenger who only eats 1 or 2 big meals a day that purchased a sleeper ticket. Same idea, this is money in their pockets if you don't eat one of them. But I think Amtrak really looks more at this as a good marketing tool to sell first class tickets. My wife kind of wanted to drive to Disney World last year and I wanted to take the train B) . After sitting down and figureing out how much it would cost us to eat out for 4 days of traveling, plus gas hotels etc...etc.. The train actually (with sleepers) came out to being pretty close to the cost of driving. The point of this is that the included meals in the sleeper price is what helped sell my wife to taking the train too.

 

[Steve4031]

I certainly did not mean to disrespect anybody. Since I work with black people, and have many friends who are black, I believe that I may be more aware of how they would feel in a certain situations than others might.

I meant only to encourage people to be open minded about people that they meet on the train. As long as no one is being lound or disruptive, they should be encouraged to ride the train. Amtrak needs all of the support that i can get.

Ooops! I just reread your second post Amtrak Michigan, and I agree with you that swearing is unacceptable by any passenger. The crew should have asked them to watch their language.

 

[Guest]

For Superliners, I prefer to eat in the upper level of the lounge, so I grab finger food from downstairs. Much nicer to kick back and watch the world go by. Plus, I find the most interesting people on the train when I'm in the lounge.

 

[battalion51]

I think Socializing is a lot easier in Superliners since there is the Sightseeing upstairs, and everyone's looking out, rather than at a deck of cards or computer. In my couple of short trips on the Sunset I've had some great conversations in the Sightseer.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Amtrakmichigan mentioned pre-paid coupon books for meals. Santa Fe used to do that. Of course for a trip like that nobody would l lose it. It did save some money(esp. if you ate more expensive dishes and ate every meal) and of course made it slightly more convenient, not having to count out your change every time you ordered a meal. (This was before credit cards were a fact of every day life).

 

[amtrakmichigan]

Amtrakmichigan mentioned pre-paid coupon books for meals.

Bill,

Actually I mentioned the coupons as an example of corporate marketing. But that was very intresting what you said about Santa Fe using them on their trains years ago.

 

[Guest]

Does anyone have any idea of the breakdown of a sleeper fare? I.E., roughly how much of it is for the accomodation and how much is for the included meals? I suppose this depends on the schedule of the ticket. If you have a sleeper accomodation but embark at ~8:00 PM and disembark at ~ 6:00 AM, you shouldn't really be paying for meals since you have no opportunity for them.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Does anyone have any idea of the breakdown of a sleeper fare? I.E., roughly how much of it is for the accomodation and how much is for the included meals? I suppose this depends on the schedule of the ticket. If you have a sleeper accomodation but embark at ~8:00 PM and disembark at ~ 6:00 AM, you shouldn't really be paying for meals since you have no opportunity for them.

I am not real sure as to how the prices are broken down, but in respect to the times you list, you would be entitled to a dinner if the train arrived at your starting station on time. There are of course other varibles, but in route usually the dining car closes at 21:00 and the crew usually is cleaned up and out by the required 22:00. Sometimes a passenger can be seated at a later time such as 21:30, depending on the crew, or sometimes they will allow you to order carry out back to your room.

And on a humorous not, in regard to your arrival time at 06:00, hey chances are (especailly if you ride our Florida Silver Service) you are gonna be late, thus being entitled to that meal, too!!! :lol: :unsure:

 

[Guest]

The attendent (not rude at all) told me it was a waste because passengers can't sit there because of a fear of them falling backwards or off the stool and getting injured. Is this really true or someone pulling my leg?

The stools were poorly designed and were often not properly bolted to the floor. They also presented a major hazard of passengers falling off and injuring themselves. The other reason the counter seating is not used is because the crew needs that area for prep work. You'll notice quite often when walking by the counter there will be salads, rolls, or whatnot spread out on it. Some of the cars have even had the stools removed.

The stools actually were acceptable to the FRA guidelines, being they were in fact a permanent fixture to the floor of the car. However, Amfleet's previous mentioned safety hazard was noted as well as sanitation issues. And currently a couple of the cars have had their stools removed.

The overall design of those cars (40 seaters we call em or "bar stoolers") is flawed for what they are currently used for. The person who designed them had in mind a combination of a diner and lounge, which was ludicrous when you see how many people trying to crowd in that lounge sometimes. As far as for us who work these cars (when we get them) we have learned how to make them more efficient, though we still walk ourselves to death in them. I do not see these cars being returned to their traditional state, but I am happy to see some of the old 48 seaters (traditional) being refurbished.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

:lol: OOPS forgot to enter my ID on that last one!!!!! :lol:

 

[Guest]

And on a humorous not, in regard to your arrival time at 06:00, hey chances are (especailly if you ride our Florida Silver Service) you are gonna be late, thus being entitled to that meal, too!!!   :lol:     :unsure:

Well, I guess turnabout is fair play. If I'm required to pay for meals I don't want, I guess it's nice to know I could have a meal I (maybe?) didn't pay for.

 

[steve_relei]

Being seated with other travelers in dining cars on trains has been a tradition since dining cars were invented.This is done on cruiseships also (remember "The Love Boat"?). I have always enjoyed it, meating other people (and they you) while traveling, eating, and looking out the window at the passing scenery (except at night when it's too dark to see). I think of it as one of train travel's nicer pleasures. What's more, we're all in this together. We might as well enjoy ourselves.

 

[Guest]

Being seated with other travelers in dining cars on trains has been a tradition since dining cars were invented.This is done on cruiseships also (remember "The Love Boat"?). I have always enjoyed it, meating other people (and they you) while traveling, eating, and looking out the window at the passing scenery (except at night when it's too dark to see). I think of it as one of train travel's nicer pleasures. What's more, we're all in this together. We might as well enjoy ourselves.

Apparently, many people would enjoy themselves as much, if not more, if they weren't forced into, what is to them, an uncomfortable situation. No one should ever question what makes a situation uncomfortable for someone they don't know (and I'm not saying anybody here is doing that) and while "meeting new and interesting people while traveling through the scenic countryside and enjoying an excellent meal" might sound good to a lot of people, it isn't for everyone. I understand, however, that the options are pretty limited.

By the way, I hated "The Love Boat" and forced common-table dining is one of the multiple reasons I would never take a cruise, either.

 

[Jeff O]

I have always found the dining car to be a great experience. I always try to get there for the first seating to ensure maximum food availability

Everyone I've ever sat with has had an interesting story to tell and we usually wound up talking well after we finished our meal.

I wish there were dining cars on more of the trains-Hint-hint!

 

[battalion51]

You're preachin to the choir Jeff. :lol: While I do think that it'd be nice to have two cars, I personally don't think there's the demand for it at this point in time on just about any of Amtrak's routes.

 

[Amfleet]

You're preachin to the choir Jeff. :lol: While I do think that it'd be nice to have two cars, I personally don't think there's the demand for it at this point in time on just about any of Amtrak's routes.

Two words...Diner Lounge

 

[battalion51]

Two words...bad idea.

 

[Viewliner]

Two words...bad idea.

two more words...I agree

We're trying to reduce the configurations of food service cars, at least in terms of Amfleets, why complicate a future Viewliner fleet.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Two words...bad idea.

Couldn't have said it any better!!!! This stupid idea is the reason why we have those stupid refurbished 40 seat diners (known as the bar-stoolers)! Just think, somebody in Amtrak managment already thought that "bad idea!" Fotunately it wasn't implemented! :lol: