Amtrak Is a Tax-Sucking Behemoth That Deserves to Die

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The Pentagon is a tax sucking behemoth. Amtrak is a rounding error.
 
The Pentagon is a tax sucking behemoth. Amtrak is a rounding error.
"A Billion Here, a Billion there, pretty soon we're talking about some Real Money!" The Late Senator Ev Dirksen/R-ILL.

Amtrak's Annual Budget is Pocket Change compared to other Forms of Transportation Subsidies and of course the Military/Industrial/Security Machines Budgets are Beyond Comprehension!!

Waste,Fraud, And Abuse Indeed Sir!!!
 
How about the hundreds of millions spent of a certain govt web site that doesn't even work yet as well??? The tens of thousands of pax who need and use the LD rails, just on the Hi-line in the US for example would be very hard pressed to get to the their destinations as safely and as cost effectively as the service currently provided by Amtrak. I both fly and train and the era of rail travel is far from over!!
 
I noticed that most of the comments were Against the article itself & For the support of Amtrak!

One of the comments, toward the end I believe, said something about -- sometimes the government needs to support things that contribute to 'quality of life' -- such as the opportunity to travel by train.

Or, on a more local level, cities providing facilities such as pools & other infrastructure (when I swim on my own in Aurora [Colorado] it's at a city pool that most likely would not be built to that level by, for example, a private health club). But of course, my city pool is also used by swim teams -- high school & age group, so there is some cost-sharing. Same concept that some cities are doing -- intermodal stations used not only by Amtrak but also by local rail & buses.

Or Amtrak itself, when they used to pull 'material handling cars' especially on the SWC -- I presume that that service didn't make enough revenue for them?

Years ago, the number (I heard) of Americans "afraid to fly" was over 20 million. Also, apparently there has recently been several new Intercity bus lines being established, sometimes even in Amtrak's market -- but a bus is so different than a train amenities-wise that I'm not sure that if "Amtrak was to disappear, that all those former riders would ride the bus".

There's also debate about whether many of the heritage passenger railroads dining car services 'made money' -- many times they 'spared no expense' to provide the passengers good food, who then told their friends, who then traveled on That railroad vs the competitor (often because of the food aboard & other services).
 
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How about the hundreds of millions spent of a certain govt web site that doesn't even work yet as well??? The tens of thousands of pax who need and use the LD rails, just on the Hi-line in the US for example would be very hard pressed to get to the their destinations as safely and as cost effectively as the service currently provided by Amtrak. I both fly and train and the era of rail travel is far from over!!
Wasn't there a study a few years ago about restoring the Hiawatha thru S. Dakota & (southern) Montana? -- I thought I read that there were no direct airline flights between any city in Montana (along that route) & any city in SD (again along that route). IOW, going between those 2 states by air, you literally have to fly to Salt Lake City, Denver, or Minneapolis from your origin city, then get on another flight back to your destination. The study suggested that as a result it would benefit SD/Montana especially.
 
How about the hundreds of millions spent of a certain govt web site that doesn't even work yet as well??? The tens of thousands of pax who need and use the LD rails, just on the Hi-line in the US for example would be very hard pressed to get to the their destinations as safely and as cost effectively as the service currently provided by Amtrak. I both fly and train and the era of rail travel is far from over!!
Wasn't there a study a few years ago about restoring the Hiawatha thru S. Dakota & (southern) Montana? -- I thought I read that there were no direct airline flights between any city in Montana (along that route) & any city in SD (again along that route). IOW, going between those 2 states by air, you literally have to fly to Salt Lake City, Denver, or Minneapolis from your origin city, then get on another flight back to your destination. The study suggested that as a result it would benefit SD/Montana especially.
Yes, there was a study mandated by PRIIA. It is still on the Amtrak site at:

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/492/133/NorthCoastHiawathaServiceStudy.pdf
 
Quote: "It's ridership gains are just a blip". Hmmmmm, how is 30 MILLION passengers a "blip". Oh and the 13-year war in the Middle East is more tax-sucking than anything else I can think of.
 
Writers like Jim Epstein are always looking for a good story about government waste. Unfortunately Amtrak gives him plenty of ammo with their phony cost accounting and crazy overhead allocations. It makes all the LD trains look like terrible money losers. The SWC actually covers around 75% of it's operating costs which is a little below the Amtrak average for LD trains. The train brings in 49 million in revenue and avoidable costs are less than 17 mil. Some of Jim's statements hit home I think. Like....."Amtrak has a chaotic management culture, routinely misappropriates funding, and is hamstrung by insane union work rules, as has been described in great detail by its former president, David Gunn"...........".the NEC is also a giant money pit. The study claims the NEC generated a $205.4 million operating balance in 2011, but that figure was arrived at using Amtrak’s own selective bean counting methods. In violation of generally accepted accounting practices, routine maintenance expenses are counted as capital expenditures, according to O’Toole, while real capital expenditures never appear on Amtrak’s books because the federal government picks up the tab"....................."The government dole has so poisoned Amtrak’s management culture that lawmakers should move to dissolve the organization, even if it must continue subsidizing passenger rail in other ways".

But all this has been published before and it came to nothing. Unfortunately, Amtrak's and Congress' current approach to managing it's trains is pushing things like this to the forefront. Chronically late trains. Huge mistakes in on board management. Treating passengers like cattle as if they don't even matter. Suspending service with no alternative provided as if the train didn't matter anyway. Thousands of people caught in these snafu's have sworn "never again". And they write letters.

Amtrak's labor costs are somewhat out of control on these trains. They are just overstaffed. But if you want the government to be the employer of last resort as in Washington DC then you just live with it. The SWC's biggest expenses are labor 23 mil and equipment maintenance 18 mil. Next are fuel at 11.5 mil and track rent at 8 mil. The longer it takes for one of these trains to make it's run the more it costs. Santa Fe ran this train Chi to Lax in less than 40 hours. Amtrak takes 43+. The way to flush this out is to find another operator to run the LD trains and give it the alleged 600+ million subsidy . Then see what the overhead really looks like. Leave Amtrak with the NEC and see if it 'makes money' then. lol.
 
NEW GAME: Name Federal programs that have an annual cost higher than Amtrak's operating subsidy!
For bonus points: How many additional airports could receive service with the long distance train subsidy transferred to EAS?
Double bonus if you can add up the additional pounds of CO2 per passenger those flights cost.

I once added up the difference between me taking trains and planes, came out to something like owning a car for a whole year.
 
NEW GAME: Name Federal programs that have an annual cost higher than Amtrak's operating subsidy!
For bonus points: How many additional airports could receive service with the long distance train subsidy transferred to EAS?
Double bonus if you can add up the additional pounds of CO2 per passenger those flights cost.

I once added up the difference between me taking trains and planes, came out to something like owning a car for a whole year.
Well, let's take the California Zephyr as our long distance representative. $12 million on fuel in FY09, Amtrak's cost per gallon that year was $1.84 thanks to the economy crashing ($3.24 the year before and $4.42 budgeted) which gives us a figure of 6.5 million gallons of diesel consumed and an average figure of 3.7 gallons per train mile (82.06 pounds) or half a pound per passenger mile (if you want instead to use Amtrak's average of 2.4 gallons per train mile, this drops to .33 pounds per passenger mile). According to the internet, "The fuel burn on a PA-31-310 is 220 pounds per hour with a block true airspeed of 180 knots," which is about 3.25 pounds per plane mile. Piper Navajo is going to be somewhat more carbon dioxidey, but the idea is to transfer to a jet plane, which is about 0.4 pounds per passenger mile. Either way, it's a fairly marginal difference in carbon dioxide emissions. Killing coal and getting more urban mass transit is the way to really kill them.
 
Well, let's take the California Zephyr as our long distance representative. $12 million on fuel in FY09, Amtrak's cost per gallon that year was $1.84 thanks to the economy crashing ($3.24 the year before and $4.42 budgeted) which gives us a figure of 6.5 million gallons of diesel consumed and an average figure of 3.7 gallons per train mile (82.06 pounds) or half a pound per passenger mile (if you want instead to use Amtrak's average of 2.4 gallons per train mile, this drops to .33 pounds per passenger mile
The CZ fuel consumption rate would be higher than average. Look at its route. Heavily mountainous.
 
Well, let's take the California Zephyr as our long distance representative. $12 million on fuel in FY09, Amtrak's cost per gallon that year was $1.84 thanks to the economy crashing ($3.24 the year before and $4.42 budgeted) which gives us a figure of 6.5 million gallons of diesel consumed and an average figure of 3.7 gallons per train mile (82.06 pounds) or half a pound per passenger mile (if you want instead to use Amtrak's average of 2.4 gallons per train mile, this drops to .33 pounds per passenger mile
The CZ fuel consumption rate would be higher than average. Look at its route. Heavily mountainous.
Well he's been very good bout cherry-picking his argument. He's only talking about LD trains and specifically picking the most arduous cross-Rocky train. I wonder what CLT-NYP would be, since more-or-less half of that route is electrified. The pounds of CO2 per passenger mile on any train that crosses into electric territory will be less.
 
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I chose long distance trains because that is what the discussion is about and the California Zephyr because it's performance improvement plan listed its fuel costs. And pounds of CO2 per pax in electric territory would generally require knowing how many kWh and Amtrak's electricity mix. As a rule of thumb though, 12.5 kWh per gallon of diesel. I'd be rather surprised if CO2 went up rather than down however.
 
And all the pork barrel projects that ends up being white elephant
Like the Govt "loan" to Fiskers Automotive in Delaware (remember they were going to build $100K luxury green cars) that just turned into a total loss on Friday--The company went belly up, as predicted by numerous pundits when the "loan" was originally made. Amtrak could have used the $134 million much more effectively than Fiskers, which never even started building the plant!! No real explanation as to where they spent that much money and got nowhere!!!!!!
 
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