Amtrak issues RFP for new Electric Engines

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jis

jis

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According to report posted on the Trainorders board, the Passenger Transport (APTA publication) July 6, 2009 issue, on page 13 has information about an Amtrak RFP for 20 new Electric Engines with options for 40 more, for the NEC and Harrisburg lines. Initial replies were due yesterday. According to the RFP each engine must be capable of pulling a single level 18 car train at 125mph.
 
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jis said:
According to report posted on the Trainorders board, the Passenger Transport (APTA publication) July 6, 2009 issue, on page 13 has information about an Amtrak RFP for 20 new Electric Engines with options for 40 more, for the NEC and Harrisburg lines. Initial replies were due yesterday. According to the RFP each engine must be capable of pulling a single level 18 car train at 125mph.
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yet no link to that RFP and the 18 car pull seems like a rail rumor to me, even with a upgraded ALP46a design that would be a tall order for a locomotive weighing in at around 100 tons.
 
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Dutchrailnut said:
yet no link to that RFP and the 18 car pull seems like a rail rumor to me, even with a upgraded ALP46a design that would be a tall order for a locomotive weighing in at around 100 tons.
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I suppose with tail wind and all :)

I tried to get a copy but the individual annual subscription rate of $75 ($113 first class mail) stymied my enthusiasm. But the news seemed legit in general so I thought I'd share it giving full reference to the source, so that someone interested in spending the money can check it out.

I doubt that anyone will ever really run a 18 car train in commercial service at 125mph. But I can see 10 or 12 car ones, and maybe even 14 car ones. As long as one is accelerating slowly and traveling long distance I can see them making 125mph. I would not expect them to be great performers on acceleration with long trains though.

Interestingly, in India even though nothing runs at 125mph (200 kph), they did experiment with Bo-Bo 7000hp electrics from Bombardier and found them lacking in performance for the typical 18 to 24 car expresses. So they re-geared and re-programmed a Co-Co design from Bombardier for handling those expresses at upto 160kph and seem to be happy with them.

Of course going to 200kph probably does rule out Co-Co, but the tractive effort issue still remains relevant when trying to pull long trains.
 
jis said:
Dutchrailnut said:
yet no link to that RFP and the 18 car pull seems like a rail rumor to me, even with a upgraded ALP46a design that would be a tall order for a locomotive weighing in at around 100 tons.
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I suppose with tail wind and all :)

I tried to get a copy but the individual annual subscription rate of $75 ($113 first class mail) stymied my enthusiasm. But the news seemed legit in general so I thought I'd share it giving full reference to the source, so that someone interested in spending the money can check it out.
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Here is the text of the RFP from the APTA website:

PURCHASE OF AC PROPULSION ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVES

RFP# X-063-9168-001

INTRODUCTION:

Amtrak intends to issue a competitive Request for Proposal for a qualified vendor to provide the design, manufacture and delivery of twenty (20) Electric Locomotives with AC Propulsion (IGBT) technology, with an option for Amtrak to purchase up to an additional forty (40) electric locomotives. The locomotives will operate at revenue service speeds of 125 MPH on Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor track between Boston and Washington, DC, as well as between Philadelphia and Harrisburg, using the existing traction power system and track infrastructure. (The maximum design speed is 135 MPH). The locomotives will be used as a general purpose passenger locomotive suitable for high speed, commuter, (including push-pull), and heavy long distance trains. The Electric Locomotives will provide sufficient horsepower to provide continuous 125 mph operation when used in a train consist of one (1) locomotive and eighteen (18) cars.

The anticipated dates for procurement and award of Request for Proposal #X-063-9168-001 are as follows:

TASKS: ANTICIPATED DATES:

Amtrak issues RFP Week of June 22, 2009

Mandatory Pre-Proposal Meeting July 20, 2009; 9:00 a.m., Amtrak, Philadelphia, PA

Due Date for submission of written proposals October 20, 2009

Oral Presentation from Short-Listed Companies Week of November 16, 2009

Contract Award Week of March 29, 2010

Notice to Proceed Week of May 3, 2010
 
Well, if they exercise the option and buy 60, that'd pretty well replace the entire AEM-7 fleet! Now, hopefully we'll also see a Viewliner II order at some point...

I don't know how many companies might submit proposals, but I suspect this is the most likely candidate for the new fleet:

http://www.br146.de/revisionen_daten/ALP-4...C_Sept08_en.pdf
 
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They're not what I would call "attractive" by a long shot.

That said, I'd like to see MARC get in on the order and replace their AEM-7's (which seem to be consigned to an endless cycle of rehabbing) and HHP-8's.
 
HokieNav said:
They're not what I would call "attractive" by a long shot.
That said, I'd like to see MARC get in on the order and replace their AEM-7's (which seem to be consigned to an endless cycle of rehabbing) and HHP-8's.
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Perhaps MARC could sell its HHP-8's to Amtrak, as they seem much better suited to high speed inter-city service than to commuter service.
 
Eighteen cars is really pushing it~ maybe we'll see two of them coupled together trying to get up to 125 mph. Can you imagine the number of people who would be stranded if that one engine konked out?
 
HokieNav said:
They're not what I would call "attractive" by a long shot.
That said, I'd like to see MARC get in on the order and replace their AEM-7's (which seem to be consigned to an endless cycle of rehabbing) and HHP-8's.
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there not bad. They have some "lines" unlike the AEM-7 which is just a box. All depends on how Amtrak paints them
 
True, I remember seeing a picture at one point the Amtrak+ALP rumor running around of someone mocking up a proposed paint job and it looking pretty decent. You're right though, anything would look better than the box on wheels that is the AEM-7.
 
I don't think this is going to replace many AEM-7s. Amtrak has equipment availability problems and is looking to expand NE Regional service. I think this will be in addition to the AEM-7s. They'll probably try and use these in various situations to reduce switching. An example might be runnig NPN regionals and such using both a diesel and electric motor ala ACES.
 
VT Hokie said:
Here's a single AEM-7 pulling 12 Amfleets at or near 125 mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOxB_A1q0-E

Don't see that too often, though.
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Funny--the video that YouTube recommended after viewing that was this one:



"Tom's still in Baltimore, proving again that Amtrak does actually suck." :p

(Hey, it wasn't the Amtrak rider's fault that the producers bought him a ticket an hour later than he should have, and there's always Acela for those truly in a hurry!)
 
I have to believe that this is going to mean some sort of expansion of service in the future. If we recall Amtrak used to run a full slate of Regionals in addition to Metroliner service. If the Amfleets that are out of service are able to be returned to service then we could see a decent expansion of current service. If you also "upgrade" some trains like the Carolinian, Maple Leaf, or Adirondack to Amfleet II service this further opens up the possibilities for you to expand your corridor service. I also don't believe MARC will be giving up their Hippos anytime soon. MARC Penn Line service is operated and maintained by Amtrak crews. It's not like they are un-trained on how to maintain or operate those engines. If anything you may see the State of Maryland pushing to get a portion of the order with Amtrak like they did for the Hippos so that their diesel fleet can be used on its other lines.
 
battalion51 said:
If you also "upgrade" some trains like the Carolinian, Maple Leaf, or Adirondack to Amfleet II service this further opens up the possibilities for you to expand your corridor service.
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?? At least the Maple Leaf and the Adirondack already have Amfleet IIs for the through passengers. They also have a few Amfleet Is for short turn passengers.
 
Last time I checked both trains were all Amfleet I. Granted something could have change, but I believe they're still all Amfleet I. Both trains have business class which has more leg room, but that's it. The Palmetto and the Pennsylvanian are the only two day trains I'm aware of that operate with Amfleet II equipment.
 
battalion51 said:
Last time I checked both trains were all Amfleet I. Granted something could have change, but I believe they're still all Amfleet I. Both trains have business class which has more leg room, but that's it. The Palmetto and the Pennsylvanian are the only two day trains I'm aware of that operate with Amfleet II equipment.
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The Adirondack is Amfleet I, and the Maple Leaf is Amfleet II. The Adirondack also lost its business class car a couple of years ago.
 
Amtrak839 said:
battalion51 said:
Last time I checked both trains were all Amfleet I. Granted something could have change, but I believe they're still all Amfleet I. Both trains have business class which has more leg room, but that's it. The Palmetto and the Pennsylvanian are the only two day trains I'm aware of that operate with Amfleet II equipment.
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The Adirondack is Amfleet I, and the Maple Leaf is Amfleet II. The Adirondack also lost its business class car a couple of years ago.
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Adirondack currently carries two Amfleet II cars and the rest Amfleet I. Through passengers to Canada get to enjoy Amfleet II while the rest get to experience Amfleet I.

Adirondack has not had a Business Class car for quite a while. They tried to give it a half BC half Cafe car but US CBP baulked since they did not want any passenger in the cafe car which they like to commandeer for their main office while doing border inspection.
 
jis said:
Amtrak839 said:
battalion51 said:
Last time I checked both trains were all Amfleet I. Granted something could have change, but I believe they're still all Amfleet I. Both trains have business class which has more leg room, but that's it. The Palmetto and the Pennsylvanian are the only two day trains I'm aware of that operate with Amfleet II equipment.
Click to expand...
The Adirondack is Amfleet I, and the Maple Leaf is Amfleet II. The Adirondack also lost its business class car a couple of years ago.
Click to expand...
Adirondack currently carries two Amfleet II cars and the rest Amfleet I. Through passengers to Canada get to enjoy Amfleet II while the rest get to experience Amfleet I.

Adirondack has not had a Business Class car for quite a while. They tried to give it a half BC half Cafe car but US CBP baulked since they did not want any passenger in the cafe car which they like to commandeer for their main office while doing border inspection.
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The one time I saw it, it had 5 Amfleet I cars. All of the videos I've checked show it with all Amfleet I cars. We've been debating consists a lot lately. First elephant style P42s vs. back to back P42s, now Amfleet IIs vs. Amfleet Is! :lol:
 
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Amtrak839 said:
The one time I saw it, it had 5 Amfleet I cars. All of the videos I've checked show it with all Amfleet I cars. We've been debating consists a lot lately. First elephant style P42s vs. back to back P42s, now Amfleet IIs vs. Amfleet Is! :lol:
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My source is ESPA news. ESPA had been working with Amtrak to get Amfleet IIs on the Adirondack and they announced that they succeeded about a month back. Of course whether that success has stuck or not is anyone's guess. So this development is relatively recent. Checking videos from before June may not be very helpful.

BTW this has also been reported on the Trainorders board as well as on railroad.net in the recent past.
 
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