Amtrak passengers face bus rides between Grand Forks, Minot until 2/2

[wxgrl23]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/424938/group/homepage/

GRAND FORKS – Westbound Amtrak train service on the Empire Builder is being switched to buses until Sunday for passengers in Grand Forks, Devils Lake and Rugby.

Devils Lake Mayor Dick Johnson received the news late Monday afternoon in an email from...

This doesnt bode well for the EB. That poor train can't catch a break.

 

[wxgrl23]

Good grief I thought I was signed in, not as a guest. Anywho, ya'll get the drift on the EB in ND.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Where does Amtrak even get buses in North Dakota? Greyhound pulled out and Rimrock got executed. NoDak Stages used to be the prime operator but they died a LONG time ago. Are they getting Jefferson units?

 

[jebr]

Where does Amtrak even get buses in North Dakota? Greyhound pulled out and Rimrock got executed. NoDak Stages used to be the prime operator but they died a LONG time ago. Are they getting Jefferson units?

Private charter operations? There's a lot of small private charter operations at least here in MN. I assume NoDak is the same.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[RalphCT]

What is happening is BNSF is requiring one way traffic with east bound traffic going through Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks wil west bound trains a taking the southern diagonal route. While the press release says this will be the case until Sunday the full spotty implies that the situation might last longer than that.

A Montanan who enjoys trail travel.

 

[RalphCT]

Where does Amtrak even get buses in North Dakota? Greyhound pulled out and Rimrock got executed. NoDak Stages used to be the prime operator but they died a LONG time ago. Are they getting Jefferson units?

Private charter operations? There's a lot of small private charter operations at least here in MN. I assume NoDak is the same.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

according to the article linked in the OP the vehicles will be operated by either Triangle Coach Service or Lucky 7 Limo.

A Montanan who enjoys trail travel.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Where does Amtrak even get buses in North Dakota? Greyhound pulled out and Rimrock got executed. NoDak Stages used to be the prime operator but they died a LONG time ago. Are they getting Jefferson units?

Private charter operations? There's a lot of small private charter operations at least here in MN. I assume NoDak is the same.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

according to the article linked in the OP the vehicles will be operated by either Triangle Coach Service or Lucky 7 Limo.

A Montanan who enjoys trail travel.

Thanks. I've never heard of those companies, hopefully they ain't too bad. Now I understand why the J is so popular, these mini ops keeping buying them and stacking up.

 

[battalion51]

There's a couple of bright spots here though: first it's only effecting one direction of travel, it's not a detour in both directions. The other bright spot is that they're not having to turn trains en route because of a washout or something of the like. Its not a desirable situation, but its only effecting passengers traveling to or from these stations, not all passengers.

 

[mwmnp]

What is happening is BNSF is requiring one way traffic with east bound traffic going through Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks wil west bound trains a taking the southern diagonal route. While the press release says this will be the case until Sunday the full spotty implies that the situation might last longer than that.

A Montanan who enjoys trail travel.

Yep, I'm getting an increasingly bad feeling that sometime in the not-too-distant future 7/27 will "temporarily" stop serving Grand Forks, Devils Lake, and Rugby in the same vein as how the Sunset Limited "temporarily" stopped running east of New Orleans. BNSF seems to really be liking the directional running setup between Minot and Fargo they began this winter, with eastbound traffic going through Devils Lake and westbound traffic going down the Surrey Cutoff through New Rockford.

Perhaps we'll get a clearer picture of where this is headed if Amtrak's engineers and conductors become qualified on the Surrey Cutoff. Last I heard, they still had to have a BNSF pilot with them when running on the route. I also have to wonder about the ramifications of Amtrak having committed money to the Devils Lake rebuilding project only to see its westbound train be forced onto the alternate route anyway due to the directional running.

 

[Nathanael]

What is happening is BNSF is requiring one way traffic with east bound traffic going through Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks wil west bound trains a taking the southern diagonal route. While the press release says this will be the case until Sunday the full spotty implies that the situation might last longer than that.

Here's hoping this will get the train running on time. At least that would get service from Minot westwards, and Fargo eastwards, back to normal.

 

[RalphCT]

Having the trains running closer to on time for most of the passengers would definitely be the bright spot.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

If this a move BNSF is doing to speed up traffic throughout the oil region, and it's at least a viable short-term solution, is there a reason that they haven't done so until now?

 

[mwmnp]

If this a move BNSF is doing to speed up traffic throughout the oil region, and it's at least a viable short-term solution, is there a reason that they haven't done so until now?

Other than the upgrades needed on the Devils Lake line to deal with the flooding area near Churchs Ferry and outdated infrastructure elsewhere, the biggest reason is BNSF had to get the unions to agree on establishing Minot to Dilworth, MN via Devils Lake as a single crew district. Previously, crews had to change in Grand Forks, so not only did running from Minot to Dilworth via Devils Lake require two crews instead of one like on the Surrey Cutoff, the crews would have been stranded at a terminal if the traffic ran just one way. Now, with the new arrangement agreed to last year, a Minot-based crew can get on a train in Minot, run eastbound to Dilworth via Devils Lake, lay over in Dilworth, and then head back west to Minot on the Surrey Cutoff by way of New Rockford.

 

[RalphCT]

Just checked Track a Train and see that today's west bound 7 just passed New Rockport.

A Montanan who enjoys trail travel.

 

[fairviewroad]

My in-laws got to experience this last Saturday morning when they were bussed from GFK to Minot (en route to PDX). They were notified

of the change about 18 hours in advance. Their bus ride was uneventful (though they failed to note the make and model of the bus,

sorry Swadian!)

One interesting thing was that they said the bus already has passengers on it when it arrived in GFK. That suggests that the bus leaves from

FAR with the westbound passengers who are traveling to GFK, DVL and RUG, then makes pick-ups and drop-offs using that single bus, which

then re-joins the train in MOT.

Now you might think that a bus that goes from Fargo to Minot via Grand Forks making three stops would be slower than a train that goes from

Fargo to Minot non-stop via a diagonal route. But in fact the bus beat the train to Minot by about 30 minutes. Departure from MOT was about

3 hours late, with eventual arrival in PDX "only" 70 minutes late.

 

[anir dendroica]

I can see this becoming the norm, if BNSF keeps up the full directional running. The Devils Lake sub doesn't have enough sidings (or CTC) to allow efficient movement of trains against the flow of traffic.

If it keeps up, I would expect to see GFK served permanently with a bus, connecting in Fargo. If #8 is not more than two hours later than #7, westbound passengers from GFK could board #8 and connect to #7 in Fargo.

Rugby and Devils Lake would probably become one-way stops, with a possible westbound stop added at New Rockford.

Of course Amtrak paid part of the cost of keeping the Devils Lake line alive, so they should have some say in this. I'm guessing BNSF will come back with "you paid 1/3 of the cost, and now you get to use the line 1/2 of the time. Deal?"

 

[Guest]

Has BNSF ever considered directional running between MSP and Fargo. Trains could go one direction on the current line through St. Cloud and use the Willmar, MN line the other way.

 

[jebr]

Has BNSF ever considered directional running between MSP and Fargo. Trains could go one direction on the current line through St. Cloud and use the Willmar, MN line the other way.

Most of the St. Cloud line is double tracked. The benefit would likely be smaller.

Plus, they'd have to work with Metro Transit between Big Lake and Minneapolis, as they run a commuter line there.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[anir dendroica]

Has BNSF ever considered directional running between MSP and Fargo. Trains could go one direction on the current line through St. Cloud and use the Willmar, MN line the other way.

Two reasons why this is unlikely:

1. The line from MSP to Fargo is almost entirely double track.

2. Traffic from MSP to Sioux City via Willmar and Marshall needs to move in both directions, so there would be trains moving against the flow from Willmar to MSP.

On rare occasions the Empire Builder has detoured through Willmar when the St. Cloud line was blocked. I'm not sure when this last happened though - possibly before Amtrak had a crew base in St. Cloud.

 

[Guest]

So with the directional running between Fargo and Minot does Amtrak get stuck running at freight train speed I'm guessing? Or are they ever allowed to pass the freights?

 

[EB_OBS]

So with the directional running between Fargo and Minot does Amtrak get stuck running at freight train speed I'm guessing? Or are they ever allowed to pass the freights?

There aren't a lot of sidings on either sub. I believe the Devils Lake sub has only 4 between Minot and Fargo.

So while it might be feasible to pass one or maybe two freights, it's not likely gonna make much difference when you're following five or six.

 

[RalphCT]

I've heard that speed limits on the Surrey cutoff used by westbound EB are 60-65 mph.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[RalphCT]

The previous Service Alert expired Feb. 6 but it has been replaced with a new Service Alert that has a Feb. 28 end date. It describes the problem with freight traffic causing delays, the train 7 detour and its missing Grand Forks, Devils Lake and Rugby stops and advises passengers on trains 7/27 and 8/28 to contact Amtrak for updates on expected delays.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[montana mike]

I've heard that speed limits on the Surrey cutoff used by westbound EB are 60-65 mph.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

I was on a #7 that took the Surrey Cutoff two weeks ago and we actually gained a little time, even averaging about 55-60 MPH, since we didn't stop at any stations and had only one freight delay (which was just east of Minot). The route itself is slightly shorter than the regular route as well.