Amtrak's Answer to my complaint about photography

[me_little_me]

This was my email to Amtrak:

We were in the CAFE of the Albuquerque AMTRAK station waiting for our train on Saturday, July 17th. I took a picture of my wife and friends there in the cafe. The Cafe clerk came over and told me that "photography was forbidden" because "it is a federal facility". Is it Amtrak policy to refuse to allow photography in station cafes? What about while on a train? Isn't that federal property? Can one take a picture of the outside of the station or is that against the rules too? On a previous trip, the car attendant took a picture of us using my camera with the train in the background. Should this attendant be reported to the FBI as a potential terrorist?

This was their reply:

Dear<deleted>,

Thank you for your recent email.

We apologize for the inconvenience you experienced while traveling with us. As information, Amtrak's policy is that ticketed passengers may take photographs on board our trains as long as it does not interfere with passengers, crew or other Amtrak employees. Photography is permissible only in public areas of our stations and is prohibited in restricted areas (for example, rights of way and other no trespassing areas, etc.). Photography on train platforms is limited to ticketed passengers who may do so briefly prior to boarding or departing from a train.

Additionally, some station locations are not owned by Amtrak but by private entities or municipalities in which they are located. In such instances, Amtrak must yield to the restrictions set by those entities.

All other photography requires prior notice to Amtrak and may require an escort at the discretion of the company. For safety and security reasons, this permission may be restricted temporarily by Amtrak personnel. Amtrak's requirement of prior notice allows the company to inform the notifying photographer of the conditions of access and when access may be temporarily denied.

For more information please visit our web site at Amtrak.com (or click on the link below).

http://www.amtrak.co...d=1241267362248

We hope this information proves helpful and that we may serve you aboard Amtrak in the near future

Sincerely,

Amtrak Customer Relations



Of course, it didn't answer the question as to why the person in the station cafe said it was "federal property" and therefore photography was prohibited. Oh well!

 

[inspiration100]

Sorry if the offends anyone, but Amtrak's customer service is some of the worst I have ever seen. I emailed about one of my trips not being right and it's been 4 weeks, no reply.

 

[Anthony]

Sorry if the offends anyone, but Amtrak's customer service is some of the worst I have ever seen. I emailed about one of my trips not being right and it's been 4 weeks, no reply.

You might have an easier time calling Customer Service and speaking with someone during business hours who can give you a more immediate answer.

 

[AlanB]

Of course, it didn't answer the question as to why the person in the station cafe said it was "federal property" and therefore photography was prohibited. Oh well!

Just curious, who was the person that said that? An Amtrak employee? Or someone else?

In any event, and for the record, the ABQ station is not owned by Amtrak. Therefore the person making that statement was lying; whether they knew it or not. That intermodel station is owned I believe by the city of ABQ. In fact, Amtrak initially continued to use the old station facilities because they hadn't worked out a contract with the owner of the new station. Seems to me that I remember it taking more than a year, if not even longer, before Amtrak moved into the current station.

But again, that is not Federal property nor Amtrak property.

 

[Acela150]

Sorry if the offends anyone, but Amtrak's customer service is some of the worst I have ever seen. I emailed about one of my trips not being right and it's been 4 weeks, no reply.

You might have an easier time calling Customer Service and speaking with someone during business hours who can give you a more immediate answer.

Some complaints filed via E-Mail or Internet take a while to be responded too. I filed a complaint about the old Clubacela age being 21. It took Amtrak 3 weeks to respond. My guess is that enough people complained about the limit being 21 that it was lowered to 18.

Just my two cents

Steve

 

[inspiration100]

Amtrak's email response was:

Dear ****** *******,Thank you for contacting us.

We apologize for the problems that occurred on your trip.We have forwarded your email to our Customer Relations Department. They will contact you as soon as possible in the order that the email is received. Due to higher than normal volume, please allow up to four to six weeks for a response.

If your concern requires immediate attention, please call our toll free number 1800-872-7245 to speak with a Customer Relations agent. The hours are Mon-Fri 7AM to 10PM, ET.

We hope this information will be of assistance.

Sincerely,

Linda

Amtrak Customer Service

I shouldn't need to call to get support, a good support system would respond to my problems within 24 hours, a decent one a week, and a poor one, 4 weeks. But 6 weeks? unbelievable. Thank goodness the heads of amtrak email support don't run our 911 systems.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

"higher than normal" Hah.

In any event, in response to the OP, I think you got the response you were looking for. Personally I found your letter to be way over the top. Take things in stride and have a chill life man... Breathe in the air!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Whether the police FBI CIA Aamtrak rent a cops DHS TSA whatever like it or not IT IS NOT AGANST THE LAW TO TAKE PICTURES OF TRAINS they can kiss my a$$. Show me proof that it is a written law and is in the books. not some made up rule on the flier but a actual law otherwise it just gives me a reason to sue later on and make money for being falsely arrested and harassed for some made up make believe rule. I'll never have to work again LOL.

 

[Ryan]

If you're standing on private property (like inside the ABQ station), the owner of that station (or its agent) can absolutely tell you to stow the camera.

 

[rrdude]

Whether the police FBI CIA Aamtrak rent a cops DHS TSA whatever like it or not IT IS NOT AGANST THE LAW TO TAKE PICTURES OF TRAINS they can kiss my a$. Show me proof that it is a written law and is in the books. not some made up rule on the flier but a actual law otherwise it just gives me a reason to sue later on and make money for being falsely arrested and harassed for some made up make believe rule. I'll never have to work again LOL.

Next time, or the first time you are told by someone it is "illegal to take photographs.....blah, blah, blah," turn the camera immediately on them, and pop off a few. Be ready for a Sh## storm though, people who are "in the wrong" and know it, HATE to have their picture taken, it is highly threatening to them, because you can identify them.

Don't do this if you can't stand, or don't like confrontation. But I have seen it turn the "mighty" into the "meek" in a manner of seconds.

And remember, if using video and it also records audio, (which they ALL virtually do) make sure to TELL the individual, "I'm recording you, just so you know"..............Now, if they are wearing a BADGE or any kind (even rent-a-cop) you need to be ready for ANY kind of response.

Usually, unless they are some form of actual law-enforcement employee, the most they will do is continue to ask you to stop, then if you have really pissed them off, they may call REAL law enforcement types. "Normal" employees are always advised to never engage in any kind of behavior like taking people's cameras, or interfering or touching customers in any way, unless to help them, or prevent them from hurting themselves or someone else.

I'm not advocating one to be belligerent or anything, just to meet "fire with fire".

When someone "shoots across your bow", it is always in your best interest to "fire one back directly midship" usually ending the battle........before it begins.

The customer is ALWAYS RIGHT, even when they are obviously wrong. AND, there are exceptions to EVERY rule.

 

[retired teacher]

Sorry if the offends anyone, but Amtrak's customer service is some of the worst I have ever seen. I emailed about one of my trips not being right and it's been 4 weeks, no reply.

I was told I was NEXT to get a bedroom on the Southwest Chief. When I called Amtrack to book another reservation I asked about the bedroom on my previous reservation to come and they said I was not listed even after I was told I was next. Now Supposedly I am on the wait list and I AGAIN was told I am next to get the bedroom reservation instead of those little roomettes.

Customer service I think depends on the person you make contact with and the mood they are in!

 

[rrdude]

Customer service I think depends on the person you make contact with and the mood they are in!

And many on these boards will spit out their coffee when they see that I have written this, but it is true that "...you will catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar........."

It never hurts to politely ask the CS rep their name, and let them know that you plan on sending an email to their supervisor, telling them "what a great employee they are.............."

The ends often justify the means...............................

 

[frj1983]

Amtrak's email response was:

Dear ****** *******,Thank you for contacting us.

We apologize for the problems that occurred on your trip.We have forwarded your email to our Customer Relations Department. They will contact you as soon as possible in the order that the email is received. Due to higher than normal volume, please allow up to four to six weeks for a response.

If your concern requires immediate attention, please call our toll free number 1800-872-7245 to speak with a Customer Relations agent. The hours are Mon-Fri 7AM to 10PM, ET.

We hope this information will be of assistance.

Sincerely,

Linda

Amtrak Customer Service

I shouldn't need to call to get support, a good support system would respond to my problems within 24 hours, a decent one a week, and a poor one, 4 weeks. But 6 weeks? unbelievable. Thank goodness the heads of amtrak email support don't run our 911 systems.

Inspiration,

I don't understand...why the insistance on getting an e-mail response when you could have had your answer weeks ago by simply dialing (sorry, or punching buttons) the phone and calling Customer Service??

 

[inspiration100]

I find it easier to gather my thoughts and send it in am email. If I do that to a hotel, a restaurant or anyplace else, I'll get a response within 5 days max. I don't see why I should have to CALL Amtrak. They should be able to answer my email in a timely manner. It looks like I might HAVE to call, but it still shows a lack of support. Doesn't anyone agree with me that Amtrak Support is the closest thing to no support? What good will a phone call do? One person will hear it and say they're sorry and send me on my way anyways.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

In any event, in response to the OP, I think you got the response you were looking for. Personally I found your letter to be way over the top. Take things in stride and have a chill life man... Breathe in the air!

Way over the top? How so? It seemed pretty reasonable to me, especially given Amtrak's history of repeatedly lying to photographers about imaginary laws with no names. Even this talk about needing a ticket to secure a picture isn't backed up by any law I'm familiar with. If you're on a sidewalk or other public space then you're free to pop off as many photos as you like, whether the train is there or not. These days so many portable devices come with cameras because it's becoming more and more popular to record and share our adventures like never before. Meanwhile Amtrak and related agencies seem to be doing their best to turn back the clock and diminish one of the best incentives I know of for traveling the rails.

If you're standing on private property (like inside the ABQ station), the owner of that station (or its agent) can absolutely tell you to stow the camera.

True, but maybe we should change the law so people have the freedom to photograph each other when waiting at a station. Seems like a pretty harmless expectation to me. I'm also not convinced that rules and laws against conspicuous photography actually help anyone. Maybe one of the reasons our food supply is routinely contaminated is because nobody sees what's actually going on at our farms and processing plants. Maybe if it wasn't illegal to take pictures more information would get out and we wouldn't have to suffer from routine contamination.

 

[lthanlon]

I think it all depends on who's in the station and if he or she feels like strutting their presumed authority. I recently shot numerous photos in and around the Albuquerque station without incident -- including this one:

 

[lthanlon]

It's ironic to me how casual tourist photography is somehow considered a threat to "homeland security," while the people who loiter in transportation facilities for hours on end, day in and day out, and have excellent opportunities to note comings and goings of station staff and security personnel generally are not hassled. But put a camera in their hands and it's a different story.

I wonder if anyone's been hassled for taking notes or drawing?

 

[rrdude]

It's ironic to me how casual tourist photography is somehow considered a threat to "homeland security," while the people who loiter in transportation facilities for hours on end, day in and day out, and have excellent opportunities to note comings and goings of station staff and security personnel generally are not hassled. But put a camera in their hands and it's a different story.

I wonder if anyone's been hassled for taking notes or drawing?

I think Ted Kaczynski got in some kind of trouble for his notes and stuff.........

 

[SweetSue]

My husband and I took many pictures and video while inside Union Station in DC this past May and nobody said anything to us. We also took a lot of pictures of the outside of stations while on the SWC two years ago, including Albuquerue, Raton, Kansas City and numerous pictures and video of the outside of the train and surrounding area during smoke breaks, pictures that included us and several "bystanders" without asking their permission!! :blink: :blush: :giggle: Guess it just depends on who sees you and wants to show "authority".

 

[guest]

this sounds very much like the employee was afraid that HIS or HER'S immage may have been caught on camera, when maybe they did'nt want it to be !!!!!!

 

[me_little_me]

Of course, it didn't answer the question as to why the person in the station cafe said it was "federal property" and therefore photography was prohibited. Oh well!

Just curious, who was the person that said that? An Amtrak employee? Or someone else?

As I mentioned, the cafe clerk came over to me.

this sounds very much like the employee was afraid that HIS or HER'S immage may have been caught on camera, when maybe they did'nt want it to be !!!!!!

The picture was taken facing away from the cafe counter (where the employee was). The background was mostly a nearby wall with an ATM and some of the station which was futher away in the background.

I think it all depends on who's in the station and if he or she feels like strutting their presumed authority. I recently shot numerous photos in and around the Albuquerque station without incident -- including this one:

(picture not copied). The cafe is the wide opening to the left side of that picture and out of view. It has some tables and chairs as well as a food selling area against the far left wall.

Sorry if the offends anyone, but Amtrak's customer service is some of the worst I have ever seen. I emailed about one of my trips not being right and it's been 4 weeks, no reply. However, you might have opened your issue as a separate topic since it was not related to mine. I never complained about how long it took to get a reply.

My incident occurred on July 17 and I wrote Amtrak about a week later after I got home. That was about July 28. After emailing Amtrak, I got a form reply saying they would contact me. The posted reply came yesterday, about five weeks later.

In any event, in response to the OP, I think you got the response you were looking for. Personally I found your letter to be way over the top. Take things in stride and have a chill life man... Breathe in the air!

All the questions were legitimate as I was concerned with getting in trouble. The last comment was pure sarcasm.

If you're standing on private property (like inside the ABQ station), the owner of that station (or its agent) can absolutely tell you to stow the camera.

I don't believe that it is private property. Public property I believe. In any case, the employee lied. She claimed it was federal property and at least one person stated it was owned by the city. She also stated that because of that, pictures were forbidden. Another lie based upon what Amtrak stated in their email. There are no signs prohibiting photography.

 

[Big Iron]

I find it easier to gather my thoughts and send it in am email. If I do that to a hotel, a restaurant or anyplace else, I'll get a response within 5 days max. I don't see why I should have to CALL Amtrak. They should be able to answer my email in a timely manner. It looks like I might HAVE to call, but it still shows a lack of support. Doesn't anyone agree with me that Amtrak Support is the closest thing to no support? What good will a phone call do? One person will hear it and say they're sorry and send me on my way anyways.

I much prefer customer service by phone so that nothing is lost in translation via e-mail. I e-mailed CS after a trip with both a compliment and complaint. It took approximately 7 weeks to get an e-mail response which was stated in the e-mail auto response to me. I called the number and the CS agent walked me through my e-mail so she understood my issues and her service was more than satisfactory. So in my mind, I prefer both methods, e-mail and phone contact to be appropriate for resolving problems. I truly believe that the tone and manner of the conversation goes a long way towards the veracity of ones claim. Some people complain for sake of complaining and their issues are likely dismissed or marginalized. Others using a more reasonable tone are likely to influence a more positive outcome and influence the way Amtrak does business going forward.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The sarcasm was exactly what was over the top, it was childish.

 

[lthanlon]

I think Ted Kaczynski got in some kind of trouble for his notes and stuff.........

Only afterward.

 

[LA Resident]

The sarcasm was exactly what was over the top, it was childish.

No you are wrong. The sarcasm was spot on, but wasted because no public employee working in the complaints/response letters department can possibly do anything but prepare a robotic, non-human reply akin to painting by the numbers. That's why the recommendations of many here to call and complain in a live interactive situation works better. The customer service rep may become embarrassed at his/her prevarication and attempt to soothe you with boilerplate responses, and actually address your complaint and offer a substantive reply.