Anyone want to speculate as to when State of Michigan will acquire tra

[reppin_the_847]

We're experiencing an exciting time everywhere and especially the USA as we finally try to catch up to the rest of the world. I'm frequently on the Wolverine / Blue Water and I am very pleased with the progress & high speed that you feel between Porter, IN and Kalamazoo, MI. That being said, the Norfolk Southern's recent imposing of speed restrictions from Kalamazoo to Dearborn is a buzzkill and stunts the progress this line has made. UNLESS of course this is going to lead to a sale to the State of Michigan or Amtrak in the near future. Anyone care to speculate as to how long this is going to take? I'd rather see this stretch going at a typical 80-95 mph rather than the 20-30 mph that it now averages. And of course I'm sure it will eventually get bumped up to 110 mph as well. Hope all the safety checks are in place for this to happen.

 

[jis]

I understand the transfer takes place within the next 90 days.

 

[white rabbitt]

We're experiencing an exciting time everywhere and especially the USA as we finally try to catch up to the rest of the world. I'm frequently on the Wolverine / Blue Water and I am very pleased with the progress & high speed that you feel between Porter, IN and Kalamazoo, MI. That being said, the Norfolk Southern's recent imposing of speed restrictions from Kalamazoo to Dearborn is a buzzkill and stunts the progress this line has made. UNLESS of course this is going to lead to a sale to the State of Michigan or Amtrak in the near future. Anyone care to speculate as to how long this is going to take? I'd rather see this stretch going at a typical 80-95 mph rather than the 20-30 mph that it now averages. And of course I'm sure it will eventually get bumped up to 110 mph as well. Hope all the safety checks are in place for this to happen.

'reppin_the_847

i hope the sale goes threw sooner rather then later

 

[SarahZ]

I understand the transfer takes place within the next 90 days.

This. We should see a huge improvement by the end of summer. I just hope this recent nonsense hasn't caused people to shy away from using Amtrak in the future.

 

[NE933]

I just hope this recent nonsense hasn't caused people to shy away from using Amtrak in the future.

Never worry! If anyone is caught running away, we'll just put tranquilizer darts into their necks and carry them aboard. By the time they come to the train will be moving and they'll be nicely convinced to stay on board.....

 

[afigg]

I understand the transfer takes place within the next 90 days.

This. We should see a huge improvement by the end of summer. I just hope this recent nonsense hasn't caused people to shy away from using Amtrak in the future.

Michigan filed a Notice of Exemption with the STB (Surface Transportation Board) for the transaction with NS. Looks like the STB issued a decision - see webpage for the official language. The filing states that Michigan expects to close the transaction on May 31, 2012, although it can legally do it after April 29. Presumably Michigan has the agreement in place for Amtrak to take over maintenance of the 136 miles of track right after the sale is completed.

But don't expect major track and speed improvements to begin right away, beyond the lifting of the most recent slow orders. There may be some additional track maintenance work to get the line up to 79 mph this year. The track, signal, and grade crossings work to upgrade the NS tracks to 110 mph be a multi-year project, probably not getting started until next year.

The one HSIPR project in Michigan that has not had the funds obligated is the $7.9 million for cross-overs, bridge replacement and 1.3 miles of connection track in west Detroit. That project is supposed to cut trip times by up to 10 minutes to Detroit. Wonder what the story is with that project?

 

[reppin_the_847]

Simply getting that Kalamazoo to Dearborn leg up to 79 MPH would be a vast improvement over what we have to deal with currently. It will be the possibly the smoothest and quickest that this line has ever run. The last few years have been terribly inconsistent on these train lines.

I'd also love to see increased frequency. An added mid or late afternoon departure and a late night (overnight trip) departure would be fantastic. Anyone think these will ever be added?

I understand the transfer takes place within the next 90 days.

This. We should see a huge improvement by the end of summer. I just hope this recent nonsense hasn't caused people to shy away from using Amtrak in the future.

Michigan filed a Notice of Exemption with the STB (Surface Transportation Board) for the transaction with NS. Looks like the STB issued a decision - see webpage for the official language. The filing states that Michigan expects to close the transaction on May 31, 2012, although it can legally do it after April 29. Presumably Michigan has the agreement in place for Amtrak to take over maintenance of the 136 miles of track right after the sale is completed.

But don't expect major track and speed improvements to begin right away, beyond the lifting of the most recent slow orders. There may be some additional track maintenance work to get the line up to 79 mph this year. The track, signal, and grade crossings work to upgrade the NS tracks to 110 mph be a multi-year project, probably not getting started until next year.

The one HSIPR project in Michigan that has not had the funds obligated is the $7.9 million for cross-overs, bridge replacement and 1.3 miles of connection track in west Detroit. That project is supposed to cut trip times by up to 10 minutes to Detroit. Wonder what the story is with that project?

 

[SarahZ]

I would love some extra departures, especially at night. It would make weekend travel a lot easier. If I want to go to Ann Arbor or Dearborn, I either have to leave work early or leave very late at night. It would be nice if they had a 6:00 or 7:00 option for the Wolverine (the Blue Water comes through at 7:30).

Additionally, I've always wished for a late-night departure from Chicago. 6:00 is simply too early. I would love if they had an 8:00 or 9:00 option. I realize it wouldn't get into the Detroit area until the wee hours of the morning, but I still think it would be fairly popular among those going to Chicago for a ball game or those who want to have dinner after seeing one last museum on Sunday.

We've thought about taking a train to see a game at Wrigley, but the timing is simply too tight. It would also be good for anyone who wants to take a day trip on Saturday. You could get into Chicago at 11:30 and then leave at 8:00. Leaving at 6:00 is sort of silly if you're just there for the day.

I know they experimented with earlier/later departures for Labor Day weekend a couple years ago. I wonder how that went?

 

[rrdude]

Although a long (ugh..) way off, once the line is almost all 110mph, the:

1. Desire (political)
2. Need (traveling public)
3. Funding (Michigan)
4. Equipment (Michigan & maybe Amtrak better utilization of existing equipment)

Will hopefully "materialize", would be a shame to have a line pimped out for 110mph, and run only three trains a day.......

Cutting the overall travel time significantly has often(?) led to increase in frequencies? I think.

 

[thully]

I agree that more frequencies on the Wolverine would be nice - particularly a late-night departure out of CHI, and perhaps an overnight trip with a bit of padding similar to #66/67 on the east coast (would be nice for one-day trips). 6pm can be a bit early for departing CHI - I managed to make it from the White Sox-Tigers game last weekend, but it seemed like cutting it a little closer than I would have liked for comfort (game got out at 4:16, and I made it back to Union Station at 5:20). Not sure how Wrigley-Union Station compares, but it seems like a slightly longer trip. Ideally, they would also look at an LD train through Michigan to the east coast (perhaps an LSL reroute/branch), and/or bringing back through Amtrak/VIA service CHI-TWO (perhaps via the Wolverine line this time). The latter two are likely pipe dreams, though...

Anyway, the higher speeds should help get more frequencies - the same amount of equipment could perhaps be used to do more runs, and the existing level of service will end up occupying the track for shorter periods of time. There would obviously be costs involved, though, so it's far from certain that we would see anything immediately after we get 110mph service on most of the line.

I'll actually be on the Wolverine again this weekend - hope the train at least runs with no more than the expected delays. Don't know if the work is going to cause any troubles for us, though as of now there isn't anything other than the slow orders that should interfere with my trains (#355 tonight, #354 Sun).

 

[SarahZ]

If they could branch the LSL at Toledo and have the branches terminate at Kalamazoo and Chicago, I'd be SUPER happy.

 

[white rabbitt]

If they could branch the LSL at Toledo and have the branches terminate at Kalamazoo and Chicago, I'd be SUPER happy.

scorcha i bet u would be, i am sorry the wolverine got cannceled on wedsday but the good news is i will get to ride the capital limited from toledo to chicago and transfer to the Texas Eagle insted so i get the best of both worlds, this will be my first ld train so it should be fun going to chi town

 

[thully]

Yeah, that should be fun - though I don't think the 7 hour layover in TOL would be! You do get a chance to ride the CL from TOL-CHI, which is the one segment I haven't seen before (I'd like to do it sometime - figure when I have more time, I might backtrack to catch the LSL/CL instead of doing the bus connection). Would also like to do the Wolverine ARB-PNT sometime - that's the piece of that route I haven't seen..

I'm on #355 again tonight (couldn't get enough of CHI last time) - its slow as usual, but is a comfortable ride in BC (kind of reminds me of a shorter, single-level LD train like the LSL). Snagged a low bucket a couple days ago...

 

[white rabbitt]

Yeah, that should be fun - though I don't think the 7 hour layover in TOL would be! You do get a chance to ride the CL from TOL-CHI, which is the one segment I haven't seen before (I'd like to do it sometime - figure when I have more time, I might backtrack to catch the LSL/CL instead of doing the bus connection). Would also like to do the Wolverine ARB-PNT sometime - that's the piece of that route I haven't seen..

I'm on #355 again tonight (couldn't get enough of CHI last time) - its slow as usual, but is a comfortable ride in BC (kind of reminds me of a shorter, single-level LD train like the LSL). Snagged a low bucket a couple days ago...

thully the only bucket i ever seen on the wolverine for b,c is 14 dollars

 

[thully]

It's confusing - while it always says $13 to upgrade from ARB, the base railfare bucket for a BC seat sometimes varies - and is often different for the base railfare for coach on the same train! For example, on May 12th I had looked at BC CHI-ARB, but after selecting it the base railfare jumped to $76 (high bucket), which plus the $13 upgrade fee equaled $89. Coach on the same train was $32 (low bucket).

However, on my current trip I saw a seat in BC with a $32 fare (low bucket), which plus the upgrade fee equaled $45. However, after the Michigan train 20% discount, the fare worked out to $38.60, which was only slightly higher than the $35.20 (medium-bucket + 20% discount) coach far I had originally booked. Given that, I called and switched to BC, swapping my tickets and paying the difference at the ARB station before boarding. Weird, I know...

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I do not know why many people think foreign trains are superior to American ones. They may look cool and all, but their durability is very poor. Japan throws away its high-speed trains after a dozen years and so ddoes many other countries. American Superliners are the heaviest railcars in the world, and the other equipment is not too bad either. In my opinion a very high-quality construction, including stainless steel beams, among others, make the train better than a weaker one. If a 1970s design like the Superliner would still be used today without problems, I see Superliners as being superior to any other railcar or multiple unit in the world.

One last thing. If Americans built too much high-speed multiple units, I see us falling lower a tier, not gaining one.

 

[jis]

Did you know that the O Series Shinkansen sets, some of the, operated for 35 years? I think you need to do a little more research before making categorical statements

 

[PRR 60]

Did you know that the O Series Shinkansen sets, some of the, operated for 35 years? I think you need to do a little more research before making categorical statements

And let facts get in the way of his arguments? :lol:

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Did you know that the O Series Shinkansen sets, some of the, operated for 35 years? I think you need to do a little more research before making categorical statements

I know, but they were not used in front-line service. If you cound the oldest Amtrak trains, the Heritage cars have been in service longer. Basically, high-speed multiple units STINK whatever way you put it.

Instead of stating facts like yours, why don't you take a side, Amtrak versus Shinkansen?

If we cared about speed so much, we might as well fly.

 

[AlanB]

Instead of stating facts like yours, why don't you take a side, Amtrak versus Shinkansen?

I'm quite certain that Jishnu has taken rides on both, and certainly on Amtrak many, many times as I've been on the some of same trains with Jishnu. Jishnu is a world traveler and has been on train in more countries than I can probably count using both my toes & fingers.

In fact, it might quite possibly be easier to count the countries where he hasn't taken a train ride.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Instead of stating facts like yours, why don't you take a side, Amtrak versus Shinkansen?

I'm quite certain that Jishnu has taken rides on both, and certainly on Amtrak many, many times as I've been on the some of same trains with Jishnu. Jishnu is a world traveler and has been on train in more countries than I can probably count using both my toes & fingers.

In fact, it might quite possibly be easier to count the countries where he hasn't taken a train ride.

Jishnu didn't even say that the Shikansen was better. He was only stating facts. What I'm looking for are opinions. Who is saying that he likes Shinkansens?

 

[PRR 60]

Jishnu didn't even say that the Shikansen was better. He was only stating facts. What I'm looking for are opinions. Who is saying that he likes Shinkansens?

Isn't comparing Amtrak Superliner trains to high speed trainsets a little like comparing a Super G Connie to a 787 and asking which is better? There may always be a place for low-speed trains, but that type of train will not drive the future of rail transport.

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

I'm not sure that "construction quality" is the best line of attack on non-American rail equipment.

The Sinkanshen "O's" were not in "frontline" service at the end of their lives because better trains at replaced them, not because they wore out. They continued in intensive local service to the end.

France's first TGV sets, put into service in 1981 so now in their 31st year, still run an average of 1,500 miles a day, factoring in maintenance cycles. They, too, are out of "front line" service... but that's pretty good endurance (the most modern, "frontline" units, are often logging 2,100 miles a day). And these are motored units! More complex to maintain than hauled stock.

But you like Superliners, and that's OK. All of us do, probably. For comfort (space per passenger), solidity if they hit a truck on a grade crossing, window size... they can't be beat. If I want to go from CHI to California, and spend two days looking out a train window, I would far rather see a Superliner consist lined up at Union Station than a TGV set (though also because, at the end of the two days, the TGV would have overshot Hawaii, and I would be soaked

).

If I have to go back and forth between NY and Boston twice a week, though, I'm thinking that the 90-minute journey on the TGV might get the nod. Yes, the stately 5-hour Superliner journey would be nice, assuming we could squeeze them under the wires, and through the East River tunnels. But, once in a while, not 104 times in a year. I wanna spend some time with my family, too.

Very little European equipment, especially rolling stock, really wears out. Most of it becomes commercially unacceptable first, and is retired, or re-sold in the 3rd world.

EDITED to make clear "France's first TGV sets..."

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

Instead of stating facts like yours, why don't you take a side, Amtrak versus Shinkansen?

I'm quite certain that Jishnu has taken rides on both, and certainly on Amtrak many, many times as I've been on the some of same trains with Jishnu. Jishnu is a world traveler and has been on train in more countries than I can probably count using both my toes & fingers.

In fact, it might quite possibly be easier to count the countries where he hasn't taken a train ride.

Jishnu didn't even say that the Shikansen was better. He was only stating facts. What I'm looking for are opinions. Who is saying that he likes Shinkansens?

I like Shinkansens (I've never ridden one, but I am sure I would like them if I did). I like them because, per previous post, if I have to make the same trip 100 times in a year, I'm kinda into getting through it quickly. I have done NY - DC oh, 500 times? If you put a daily Superliner run there (waving a wand to remove technical obstacles), it will not be the most crowded train on the route (and I will not be on it, unless I have a very agreeable traveling companion). Implying that other people also "prefer" the Acela, or even aged Amfleet stock with air cushion suspension. Imagine what they would do if a TGV service were on that line? 90-minute run, $72 "high bucket" fare...

For that matter, do you prefer Superliners, or the Lexington Avenue IRT? For me, it depends. If I have to get from Union Square to Grand Central in a hurry, I would vote for the Kawasaki subway stock, even if you had a Superliner set lined up for me on the local track. (That's a funny image. OK, maybe once...)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What I mean to say is that Amtrak does not NEED Japanese-style HSTs to "catch up to the world". Of course, everything has its pros and cons. But the situation in America more favours the Superliners and orther Amtrak equipment. Just like how a old DC-3 could be superior to a A350 if you have a really short runway with not much traffic. If tyou put Superliners in Europe, they'll probably fail. If you put Shinkansens in the US, they probably fail as well. Since the OP was talking about Amtrak, then I have to prefer Superliners for his argument.