bad weather....really bad weather and Amtrak

[mercedeslove]

I was just curious what would happen if Amtrak is heading towards an area where a tornado is confirmed on the ground and or there is a tornado on the ground heading towards a train....

what does amtrak do?

 

[George Harris]

Most railroad employee timetables for lines in tornado country have a few paragraphs on that. I recall hearing somewhere that BNSF has a private weather service that is supposed to provide specifically targeted severe weather information. This information would then be radioed by the dispatcher to the trains in the affected areas.

About the only thing you can reall DO is stop the train and wait it out. You are in something much heavier than an automobile, and to be inside is far better than being outside.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'd think it would be wiser to keep it moving as quickly as possible, given the tightly concentrated nature of a tornado- the faster your moving, the less time it has to effect you. Additionally, the force it exerted on your would be contesting by the force the massive object was exerting forward.

 

[Guest]

"wiser to keep it moving as quickly as possible"

This doesn't take into account track obstructions, such as flying houses and other debris, etc. I'm tempted to sign this, "Dorothy", except I've lived in one of the tornado allies and had my neighborhood hit twice within 6 months with 2 story brick homes moved inches off of their foundations, etc. Given the strength of the winds wouldn't you think that a train moving through the winds would make for a very rough ride for passengers.

And Mr. Harris, I've been wanting to know approximately how much a coach car weighs.?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I am applying my basic but considerable knowledge of physics with my very limited knowledge of the nature of tornados to come up with a thought. I'd imagine even Wikipedia would consider my conclusion unreliable.

 

[RailFanLNK]

I live smack dab in the middle of tornado alley. Use to sit around the countryside when I was a kid and drink beer and watch funnel clouds. It's normal from where I'm from. I no longer disrespect Mutha Nature to that tune so I would think first of all I would pray, then I would hope the tornado goes back into being a funnel cloud and disapates. You are definately a captive person when on a train.

 

[Guest]

"the faster your (sic) moving, the less time it has to effect you"

Isn't there a theory that you'll get less wet if you run faster through the rain, too?

Anyway, back to Amtrak. Sitting on the train going through a thunderstorm is surreal. Rain hits the windows but the train doesn't get buffeted. The very reason I dislike taking planes is how a little wind makes it a roller coaster ride ("ladies and gentlemen, we're currently experiencing a little turbulence", meanwhile, the plane drops to the next strata leaving your heart in the previous one, the wings shimmy a little and the flight attendants belt up). I'm usally talking to my Creator who I'm pretty sure I'm about to meet before the plane lands.

Railrookie, I now live in an area less susceptible to 'nados and people don't understand warnings. Me. You'll find me in my basement closet under a mattress with an ax and a flashlight wearing my bicycle helmet.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

"the faster your (sic) moving, the less time it has to effect you"
Isn't there a theory that you'll get less wet if you run faster through the rain, too?

You can sicut my writing all you want. You've demonstrated that I tend to quickly put thoughts to words to text and often typo, or substitute homophonic words. Congratulations. I check for red lines, but I post on this forum on my busy day and don't have time to sit around to see if I've spelt a word pronounced "yore" in a way that means "belonging to you" or "you are". I'd rather take that time making a more meaningful post.

Secondly, rain storms are not as concentrated as a tornado is. Few would disagree that you get less wet if you run past a sprinkler fast rather than amble slowly.

 

[had8ley]

I live smack dab in the middle of tornado alley. Use to sit around the countryside when I was a kid and drink beer and watch funnel clouds. It's normal from where I'm from. I no longer disrespect Mutha Nature to that tune so I would think first of all I would pray, then I would hope the tornado goes back into being a funnel cloud and disapates. You are definately a captive person when on a train.

Hey Al; I wouldn't want to be driving that big brown box when one hits even with a six pack close by!

 

[George Harris]

"wiser to keep it moving as quickly as possible"
This doesn't take into account track obstructions, such as flying houses and other debris, etc. I'm tempted to sign this, "Dorothy", except I've lived in one of the tornado allies and had my neighborhood hit twice within 6 months with 2 story brick homes moved inches off of their foundations, etc. Given the strength of the winds wouldn't you think that a train moving through the winds would make for a very rough ride for passengers.

And Mr. Harris, I've been wanting to know approximately how much a coach car weighs.?

According to wikipedia, a Superliner coach weighs 148,000 pounds, so 74 tons. This sounds about right. Presumably that is the empty weight. The sleepers and diners would be heavier.

And, GML, the last thing you want to be trying to do in a tornado or hurricane is to be moving, particularly moving fast. I have spent most of first 45 years of my life living in tornado country, except for the part when I was near the Gulf coast and you add hurricanes for flavor, and have spent most of the last 17 in Pacific Rim points where you had typhoons and earthquakes. A high wind will shake a train. Tornados have turned over freight cars, don't know about passenger cars, but even if it turns over, you are better off in it than outside it. Plus, being turned over by wind while sitting still is a lot less damaging than being turned over while moving.

 

[had8ley]

"wiser to keep it moving as quickly as possible"
This doesn't take into account track obstructions, such as flying houses and other debris, etc. I'm tempted to sign this, "Dorothy", except I've lived in one of the tornado allies and had my neighborhood hit twice within 6 months with 2 story brick homes moved inches off of their foundations, etc. Given the strength of the winds wouldn't you think that a train moving through the winds would make for a very rough ride for passengers.

And Mr. Harris, I've been wanting to know approximately how much a coach car weighs.?

According to wikipedia, a Superliner coach weighs 148,000 pounds, so 74 tons. This sounds about right. Presumably that is the empty weight. The sleepers and diners would be heavier.

And, GML, the last thing you want to be trying to do in a tornado or hurricane is to be moving, particularly moving fast. I have spent most of first 45 years of my life living in tornado country, except for the part when I was near the Gulf coast and you add hurricanes for flavor, and have spent most of the last 17 in Pacific Rim points where you had typhoons and earthquakes. A high wind will shake a train. Tornados have turned over freight cars, don't know about passenger cars, but even if it turns over, you are better off in it than outside it. Plus, being turned over by wind while sitting still is a lot less damaging than being turned over while moving.

Get up on the Huey P. Long that the Sunset runs on and stop. The 18 wheelers that travel the adjacent road shake the train. I don't think I would want to be moving in a twister. Which brings back a memory. Somewhere in the no man's land of west Texas there is a balloon hangar station to detect low flying drug runners. We actually saw a very small twister, or you might call it a very big dirt devil, heading for our train. It hit our car and we were shaken from side to side so much so if you had been walking it probably would have knocked you down. I honestly don't think hitting them head on is a wise choice when it comes to tornadoes. Stopped and secure would get my vote.

 

[RailBirder]

UP rules have all trains stop. If the tornado actually went over the tracks, someone has to come out and inspect the area for debris, downed trees, etc.

 

[WEB]

Here's what happened on the eastbound Southwest Chief last March: A Tornado struck near Lamar, Colorado, about an hour before we were to arrive. The train stopped east of La Junta while the condition and safety of the track ahead was determined. We waited over four hours before proceding.

 

[had8ley]

Here's what happened on the eastbound Southwest Chief last March: A Tornado struck near Lamar, Colorado, about an hour before we were to arrive. The train stopped east of La Junta while the condition and safety of the track ahead was determined. We waited over four hours before proceding.

Now that's what I call railroading. Yes, the passengers were delayed but it sure beats de-training in the hands of a rescue team.

 

[Tracksentinel]

A timely question with all the bad weather around the country.

It appears that Norfolk Southern needs to watch The Weather Channel.

Last week they knowingly allowed rail traffic across the Sandusky Bay in 50 to 70 mph winds. These winds were no surprise like the last time this happened in 2003 in a freak thunderstorm. The news had been warning all day about the extremely high winds expected in the area.

The stack train derailed from a gust of wind and spilled containers into the bay just as the temperature was dropping. Some containers froze in place before they could sink. This happened in the early AM, just before the Amtrak trains were due through.

Hate to think what 70mph gusts out on an open causeway would do to a Superliner train.

A possible replay of the Bayou Canot incident?

 

[PRR 60]

Hate to think what 70mph gusts out on an open causeway would do to a Superliner train. A possible replay of the Bayou Canot incident?

Not likely. The center of gravity of a Superliner is much lower than that of a double-stack car, and is even lower than the center of gravity of an Amfleet car. The Superliner is a very stable car in crosswinds. A double stack is not.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'd think that the Superliner, while with a low center of gravity, would present a broad flat surface to the wind, and thus be unstable in extreme winds.

Meanwhile the Verrazano, which is in a wind-tunnel at the opening of New York Harbor, experiences horrible winds all the time, almost never closes, and doesn't seem to be known for raining cars off it.

 

[George Harris]

A possible replay of the Bayou Canot incident?

Maybe you need to read the accident report on the Bayou Canot wreck. Wind had nothing to do with it. In fact there are no similarities what so ever to what happened in Sandusky.

A barge tow that was lost in fog turned up this stream which is regarded as not navigable, hit the Bayou Canot bridge knocking it out of line, but not breaking the rail so that the signal system was unaffected. The train hit the misaligned bridge at about 70 mph and mostly ended up in the water.

 

[Tracksentinel]

A possible replay of the Bayou Canot incident?

Maybe you need to read the accident report on the Bayou Canot wreck. Wind had nothing to do with it. In fact there are no similarities what so ever to what happened in Sandusky.

A barge tow that was lost in fog turned up this stream which is regarded as not navigable, hit the Bayou Canot bridge knocking it out of line, but not breaking the rail so that the signal system was unaffected. The train hit the misaligned bridge at about 70 mph and mostly ended up in the water.

Good grief! I wasn't being quite as specific as you may have thought me to be.

I know what happened at Bayou Canot.

Wind. Boats crashing. Tornado.

The end result would be the same:

Superliners in the water...

Passengers hurt or worse...

Helicopters circling overhead...

Blue and red lights flashing everywhere.

What's not similar about that?

 

[George Harris]

A possible replay of the Bayou Canot incident?

Maybe you need to read the accident report on the Bayou Canot wreck. Wind had nothing to do with it. In fact there are no similarities what so ever to what happened in Sandusky.

A barge tow that was lost in fog turned up this stream which is regarded as not navigable, hit the Bayou Canot bridge knocking it out of line, but not breaking the rail so that the signal system was unaffected. The train hit the misaligned bridge at about 70 mph and mostly ended up in the water.

Good grief! I wasn't being quite as specific as you may have thought me to be.

I know exactly what happened at Bayou Canot.

The end result would be the same:

Superliners in the water...

Passengers hurt or worse...

Helicopters circling overhead...

Blue and red lights flashing everywhere.

What's not similar about that?

Read the accident report. If you can't see the differences, I don't think I can explain them to the point that you can.

 

[Tracksentinel]

You win. Whatever...

 

[Guest]

Bayou Canot story

 

[Guest]

Another account

If the Sunset Limited had not been delayed, might history be written differently?

 

[George Harris]

Go to http://dotlibrary.specialcollection.net/

click on: I.C.C. Historical Railroad Investigation Reports (1911-1994)

when the dates come up, click on 1993, then click on the second one that shows up, which says AMTRAK. When it comes up, you can either read down what shows up or click on the link to the pdf version and get it exactly as it was published.

In most major disasters there is a whole series of events leading up to it. Remove any one of them and the incident will either not occur at all or be signincantly different. Who knows how many others could have happened but for the absence of any one of the many smaller events that would have to have been combined to make it happen? you do the best you can, but, "Time and chance happen to us all."

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You know, I used to think that there were cases sufficiently clear cut to not be government conspiracy listed as a theory by somebody. Until I saw one on that disaster. Oi veigh isht mehr.