Bedroom Prices

[user 3742]

I'm planning a trip on the CZ for around this time next year.

The "Sample Fares" page in the Amtrak timetable states that the range of prices from Chicago to Emeryville is $554 - 1377 for bedrooms and $262 - 634 for roomettes. However none of the dummy bookings I've tried, even for 11 months into the future have the lowest fares available. Most are at $1195 / $552. Are these lowest fares ever actually available (on more than on just 1 train in the year to allow for that advert)? Is it just a case of being first in the queue once bookings open for that day - what time of day is that?

I've seen on another recent post on this forum that it's possible to book a bedroom / roomette actually on the train at the lowest fare (subject to availability of course). If I were to book a roomette, could I upgrade to a bedroom and just pay the difference between what I paid for the roomette and the lowest bedroom rate (ie $554).

 

[jmbgeg]

I'm planning a trip on the CZ for around this time next year.
The "Sample Fares" page in the Amtrak timetable states that the range of prices from Chicago to Emeryville is $554 - 1377 for bedrooms and $262 - 634 for roomettes. However none of the dummy bookings I've tried, even for 11 months into the future have the lowest fares available. Most are at $1195 / $552. Are these lowest fares ever actually available (on more than on just 1 train in the year to allow for that advert)? Is it just a case of being first in the queue once bookings open for that day - what time of day is that?

I've seen on another recent post on this forum that it's possible to book a bedroom / roomette actually on the train at the lowest fare (subject to availability of course). If I were to book a roomette, could I upgrade to a bedroom and just pay the difference between what I paid for the roomette and the lowest bedroom rate (ie $554).

I got the same thing you did in 2011 for Chicago-Emeryville fares on the California Zephyr and the same thing on several tries in late 2010. The roomettes are pricing at "high bucket" and the bedrooms about $380 below "high bucket". I found better fares taking the Empire Builder to Portland connecting with the Coast Starlight to Emeryville. The EB and CS have a better on time record than the CZ and the EB and CS have the best service, IMHO.

No matter which train(s) you take sleepers on, if you find a price higher than you like but not outside your price range, you can always take a roomette now and watch for lower bucket bedroom prices down the road and then upgrade, or book a bedroom now and if cheaper fares come along, cancel the first reservation and rebook.

 

[Ryan]

Keep looking. What happens a lot is that tour companies / travel agent types buy up huge blocks of rooms as soon as they come available, then release them back into the pool (at the original price paid) as time goes by and people don't book.

 

[Shawn]

Keep looking. What happens a lot is that tour companies / travel agent types buy up huge blocks of rooms as soon as they come available, then release them back into the pool (at the original price paid) as time goes by and people don't book.

A practice which should not be happening...

 

[jmbgeg]

Keep looking. What happens a lot is that tour companies / travel agent types buy up huge blocks of rooms as soon as they come available, then release them back into the pool (at the original price paid) as time goes by and people don't book.

A practice which should not be happening...

So in other terms, tour companies hedge bets on large blocks of Amtrak bedrooms, and then dump them back on Amtrak with a full refund; in the interim, pushing up bucket prices for individual travelers?

 

[Ispolkom]

Are there ever low bucket prices on the California Zephyr? I've not looked systematically, but comparing a few dates in early December and early January show low-bucket prices on the Empire Builder, while the California Zephyr is still almost $1200. On December 8, for instance, it's cheaper to take a bedroom Chicago-Portland-Emeryville, than the direct route.

 

[Larry Munson]

Are there ever low bucket prices on the California Zephyr? I've not looked systematically, but comparing a few dates in early December and early January show low-bucket prices on the Empire Builder, while the California Zephyr is still almost $1200. On December 8, for instance, it's cheaper to take a bedroom Chicago-Portland-Emeryville, than the direct route.

Sssssshhhhh....

 

[daveyb99]

Keep looking. What happens a lot is that tour companies / travel agent types buy up huge blocks of rooms as soon as they come available, then release them back into the pool (at the original price paid) as time goes by and people don't book.

A practice which should not be happening...

It does because AMTRAK allows reservations without payments. If they did like the airlines (you have 24 hours to pay, or maybe on hold for 3 days) and automatically cancel, then this practice would be much harder to sustain -- without actually expending $$$ to hold the reservation.

 

[dlagrua]

Keep looking. What happens a lot is that tour companies / travel agent types buy up huge blocks of rooms as soon as they come available, then release them back into the pool (at the original price paid) as time goes by and people don't book.

This most certainly happens but I believe that this type of booking activity would be focused on on a trip sold only for a group going on a specific tour.

In that case all the sleepers are probabaly sold out until the last minute. Speculation is everywhere these days it seems

 

[caravanman]

Travelling on the Zephyr this year (2010) in February and early March from Chicago to Emy, and back, I got roomettes for the lowest bucket prices. I only reserved my travel 2 weeks in advance. I can't imagine tour groups booking up lots of space in Feb and March, it's not exactly high season..?

Try to travel on a Tues or Wed, those days tend to be lower bucket. It might be worth breaking the bookings up too.. E.G. Reno to Sacramento or Emy might be heavily booked, but you could get a cheap room as far as Reno, then go coach.. worth playing around to see what comes up. I suggest a call to an agent also, they might have some insight into why the train is high bucket at your desired times..

Good luck,

Eddie

 

[caravanman]

Ok, I just checked the CZ prices.. all seems fine up to 31 OCT 2010, after that ALL dates display exactly the same roomette fares . A computer Glitch if I am not mistaken, Watson!

Eddie

 

[BeckysBarn]

Ok, I just checked the CZ prices.. all seems fine up to 31 OCT 2010, after that ALL dates display exactly the same roomette fares . A computer Glitch if I am not mistaken, Watson!
Eddie

My annual trip is before & after Thanksgiving. Due to blackout dates, I usually pay for the return from EMY-CHI on the CZ. I've been checking prices for sleepers since December '09. The last 2 weeks of Nov '10, roomettes are all $552. Doesn't matter what day of the week. I hope it's a glitch.

 

[Ryan]

Keep looking. What happens a lot is that tour companies / travel agent types buy up huge blocks of rooms as soon as they come available, then release them back into the pool (at the original price paid) as time goes by and people don't book.

A practice which should not be happening...

So in other terms, tour companies hedge bets on large blocks of Amtrak bedrooms, and then dump them back on Amtrak with a full refund; in the interim, pushing up bucket prices for individual travelers?

Exactly. (and I concur with the fact that it shouldn't be allowed - I recall reading here that Amtrak is frustrated with the practice as well and is looking for ways to discourage it).

Keep looking. What happens a lot is that tour companies / travel agent types buy up huge blocks of rooms as soon as they come available, then release them back into the pool (at the original price paid) as time goes by and people don't book.

A practice which should not be happening...

It does because AMTRAK allows reservations without payments. If they did like the airlines (you have 24 hours to pay, or maybe on hold for 3 days) and automatically cancel, then this practice would be much harder to sustain -- without actually expending $$$ to hold the reservation.

Amtrak requires payment within 7 days. The practice is sustainable because of the generous refund policy.

 

[AlanB]

Keep looking. What happens a lot is that tour companies / travel agent types buy up huge blocks of rooms as soon as they come available, then release them back into the pool (at the original price paid) as time goes by and people don't book.

A practice which should not be happening...

So in other terms, tour companies hedge bets on large blocks of Amtrak bedrooms, and then dump them back on Amtrak with a full refund; in the interim, pushing up bucket prices for individual travelers?

Exactly. (and I concur with the fact that it shouldn't be allowed - I recall reading here that Amtrak is frustrated with the practice as well and is looking for ways to discourage it).

It's actually worse than what you think. The travel agents are simply allowed to grab blocks of rooms without ever paying for the rooms until shortly before the trip is actually taken. In other words a travel agent thinking about trying to run a trip can go grab 10 rooms today in the CZ for next September for leaf peeper season and hold those rooms without paying until late August if they so choose. There are no refunds involved, since no payment was ever made, so the generous refund policy doesn't even matter.

Even worse, I believe that those agents have access to those rooms before the 11 month window opens up for us individuals.

Now there was a recent story that I saw which indicated that Amtrak is looking to stop this practice. I'm not sure just what they'll do to stop it and in fact there could be a few steps taken, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

All that said, part of the issue is also that Amtrak has just gotten better at revenue management. I think that they've learned that people have discovered how things worked in the past and that they are now starting the trains out in a higher bucket for the first few months of sales, and then dropping things back depending on just how sales go. And of course even back when they weren't doing that, they still were adjusting how many rooms were at each bucket based upon the season. For example: the CZ in mid-July might only have 3 roomettes in the low bucket when it went on sale, whereas in late January it might have 7 roomettes in the low bucket.

 

[Ryan]

It's actually worse than what you think. The travel agents are simply allowed to grab blocks of rooms without ever paying for the rooms until shortly before the trip is actually taken. In other words a travel agent thinking about trying to run a trip can go grab 10 rooms today in the CZ for next September for leaf peeper season and hold those rooms without paying until late August if they so choose. There are no refunds involved, since no payment was ever made, so the generous refund policy doesn't even matter.

Really? That's an incredibly foolish move on Amtrak's part it seems. Also, sounds like it's a trivially easy process for them to put a stop to if so desired.

 

[AlanB]

It's actually worse than what you think. The travel agents are simply allowed to grab blocks of rooms without ever paying for the rooms until shortly before the trip is actually taken. In other words a travel agent thinking about trying to run a trip can go grab 10 rooms today in the CZ for next September for leaf peeper season and hold those rooms without paying until late August if they so choose. There are no refunds involved, since no payment was ever made, so the generous refund policy doesn't even matter.

Really? That's an incredibly foolish move on Amtrak's part it seems. Also, sounds like it's a trivially easy process for them to put a stop to if so desired.

It's actually not as easy as you might think. You have to remember that those same travel agents do provide Amtrak with quite a bit of revenue by selling those blocks of rooms that might otherwise go unsold, especially during off peak periods.

Gotta be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you. At least not too hard.

 

[frj1983]

It's actually worse than what you think. The travel agents are simply allowed to grab blocks of rooms without ever paying for the rooms until shortly before the trip is actually taken. In other words a travel agent thinking about trying to run a trip can go grab 10 rooms today in the CZ for next September for leaf peeper season and hold those rooms without paying until late August if they so choose. There are no refunds involved, since no payment was ever made, so the generous refund policy doesn't even matter.

Really? That's an incredibly foolish move on Amtrak's part it seems. Also, sounds like it's a trivially easy process for them to put a stop to if so desired.

It's actually not as easy as you might think. You have to remember that those same travel agents do provide Amtrak with quite a bit of revenue by selling those blocks of rooms that might otherwise go unsold, especially during off peak periods.

Gotta be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you. At least not too hard.

On the other hand,

It discourages people from using Amtrak. If I use it occasionally and want a bedroom, and discover that it's $3,000 to travel to San Fran from Chi, I might well decide that's way too expensive and never go back to using Amtrak again. Also I might share what I discovered with others (quite probable) and they will never consider Amtrak as a travel choice. Bad news always travels faster than good and does lots of damage (unsubstantiated or not).

Amtrak has to know who the most egregious Travel Agencies are and perhaps negotiate with them a fair deal (a percentage of the rooms but not all). Or maybe Amtrak needs to talk with travel agents in general to negotiate a fair deal. As I see it, it's not fair and it's not right! :angry:

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

It's actually not as easy as you might think. You have to remember that those same travel agents do provide Amtrak with quite a bit of revenue by selling those blocks of rooms that might otherwise go unsold, especially during off peak periods.
Gotta be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you. At least not too hard.

Travel agents do a similar service for airlines, cruise ships, hotels, but I believe for those, they have to pay for any tickets/rooms they buy. Though possibly not for 30 days (instead of Amtrak's 7).

How do these travel agents manage to (re-) sell these train tickets for off peak periods, if Amtrak itself can't? They don't discount them (ala Priceline), do they?

Capt Kirk, "Amtrak usually charges $600 for a bedroom, but with Priceline, you can get that unsold bedroom for only $17'.

 

[AlanB]

It's actually not as easy as you might think. You have to remember that those same travel agents do provide Amtrak with quite a bit of revenue by selling those blocks of rooms that might otherwise go unsold, especially during off peak periods.
Gotta be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you. At least not too hard.

Travel agents do a similar service for airlines, cruise ships, hotels, but I believe for those, they have to pay for any tickets/rooms they buy. Though possibly not for 30 days (instead of Amtrak's 7).

How do these travel agents manage to (re-) sell these train tickets for off peak periods, if Amtrak itself can't? They don't discount them (ala Priceline), do they?

Capt Kirk, "Amtrak usually charges $600 for a bedroom, but with Priceline, you can get that unsold bedroom for only $17'.

They runs package deals, whereby they give people a train ride and then some tour around a city, etc.

And sometimes they aren't able to sell the rooms, which is why they're returned to inventory at Amtrak.com.

 

[Guest]

I'm planning a trip on the CZ for around this time next year.
The "Sample Fares" page in the Amtrak timetable states that the range of prices from Chicago to Emeryville is $554 - 1377 for bedrooms and $262 - 634 for roomettes. However none of the dummy bookings I've tried, even for 11 months into the future have the lowest fares available. Most are at $1195 / $552. Are these lowest fares ever actually available (on more than on just 1 train in the year to allow for that advert)? Is it just a case of being first in the queue once bookings open for that day - what time of day is that?

I've seen on another recent post on this forum that it's possible to book a bedroom / roomette actually on the train at the lowest fare (subject to availability of course). If I were to book a roomette, could I upgrade to a bedroom and just pay the difference between what I paid for the roomette and the lowest bedroom rate (ie $554).

We're in the peak spring break/Easter travel time, so "about this time next year" would also be peak.

Checking tomorrow's departure, there are no family rooms or bedrooms available CHI-EMY. One roomette is available for $647.

Hopefully, Amtrak optimized this demand and didn't sell anything too low.

 

[dlagrua]

Once again and I know that this has been asked before. How do you know what bucket fare is offered and if you have the ticket what bucket did you purchase at?. Does any code show on your ticket. I've been an Amtrak traveler for about 6 years and I should know this but have always purchased just on "gut feel". I check and recheck prices and if they are affordable we book the room and when they are sky high like on the LSL we just look for a more affordable route like we did for this summers trip to Chicago on the Capitol Limited. Booking bedrooms is a "hit and miss" experience. Sometimes you can get them for $250 and sometimes they sell for near $900 ONE WAY. It's very demand dependant and those travel agent parasites are not helping metters as they will discourage first time travelers with their predatory method of operation. Let those evil vultures buy the rooms like all the rest of us do. I tell you, its terrible!

 

[Ryan]

Look at your ticket stub - there should be a 2 letter code starting with "Y", the second letter indicates the bucket. I *think* that they are "YA" through "YE", with "YE" being the low bucket (the only two stubs I have at my desk here are from BWI - WAS. The "YD" ticket is the low bucket $12 and the "YB" ticket is the next bucket up at $18, but I think for a trip that short that there may not be tickets available in all 5 buckets.

Sadly, the term "YB" is too short for the search engine here, I know that it's been explained before.

Edit: Google to the rescue, and it leads back here - here's a post from AlanB that explains it better:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?...ost&p=96695

 

[daveyb99]

actually, AMTRAK.COM to the rescue.

AMTRAK INVENTORY CODES

 

[dlagrua]

actually, AMTRAK.COM to the rescue.
AMTRAK INVENTORY CODES

Thanks for the info folks on idetifying the bucket fares. We do not pick up our tickets until the day of the trip so I will look in June and see how we did. On the list I see EA, EB,EC,ED but apparently that codes run from high to low bucket, ED being the cheapest.

 

[Ryan]

Good find, the link to Amtrak's website in the thread that I linked to was a 404.