Boston-Albany

[printman2000]

CSX still has trackwork to do and Amtrak is extending the bussing of 448 & 449. We are on 449 today and it is a stinkin bus. Was suppose to end last week. Oh well, at least the SWC is now running.

 

[transit54]

CSX still has trackwork to do and Amtrak is extending the bussing of 448 & 449. We are on 449 today and it is a stinkin bus. Was suppose to end last week. Oh well, at least the SWC is now running.

How much have they extended the bussing? I just bought tickets for 7/21 to SPG to connect with the Vermonter. I'd hope the construction doesn't run that late! Otherwise, I'm better off just taking the direct bus to Burlington from Boston.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

CSX still has trackwork to do and Amtrak is extending the bussing of 448 & 449. We are on 449 today and it is a stinkin bus. Was suppose to end last week. Oh well, at least the SWC is now running.

How much have they extended the bussing? I just bought tickets for 7/21 to SPG to connect with the Vermonter. I'd hope the construction doesn't run that late! Otherwise, I'm better off just taking the direct bus to Burlington from Boston.

Aren't they doing the work only four days a week? If your dates are flexible, you might be able to pick one of the days they aren't doing track work.

(Wouldn't it be great if the MBTA Fitchburg Line trains connected to the Vermonter somehow?)

 

[transit54]

CSX still has trackwork to do and Amtrak is extending the bussing of 448 & 449. We are on 449 today and it is a stinkin bus. Was suppose to end last week. Oh well, at least the SWC is now running.

How much have they extended the bussing? I just bought tickets for 7/21 to SPG to connect with the Vermonter. I'd hope the construction doesn't run that late! Otherwise, I'm better off just taking the direct bus to Burlington from Boston.

Aren't they doing the work only four days a week? If your dates are flexible, you might be able to pick one of the days they aren't doing track work.

(Wouldn't it be great if the MBTA Fitchburg Line trains connected to the Vermonter somehow?)

Sadly, they're not. I have a brief appointment at that morning in Boston - I'm taking the Acela up from NHV (as I'll be visiting family for the weekend) then spending about an hour and a half in Boston, heading back to South Station and then jumping on the train to head back to Burlington. I'll call Amtrak the day before and ask. Worst comes to worse, I'll just buy a bus ticket for Burlington and apply the ticket cost to my next Amtrak ticket purchase.

But yes, it would be great if MBTA connected to the Vermonter, and if it reached Springfield. Of course, it would be great if anything connected to the Vermonter!

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

If Vermont really is going with DMUs (which they seem to be) and they had every car powered (which they don't seem to be doing), they could also have the southbound Vermonter break one car of at Brattleboro which would head along the Fitchburg Line to Boston (assuming there was adequate track capacity, anyway).

 

[transit54]

If Vermont really is going with DMUs (which they seem to be) and they had every car powered (which they don't seem to be doing), they could also have the southbound Vermonter break one car of at Brattleboro which would head along the Fitchburg Line to Boston (assuming there was adequate track capacity, anyway).

Interesting thought. However, I doubt the service would be very popular unless somehow the speeds were substantially improved. At present that connection would take about 6-7 hours, when Vermont Transit buses get there in 4.5. Now granted, I would much prefer to ride the train, but I just think that it just couldn't get the necessary ridership to justify the existence of such a split. And, as you mentioned, only one of the cars will be powered.

If I had to pick anything on my wish-list for passenger rail improvements in VT, it would be the extension of the Ethan Allen to Burlington. There's already freight tracks running along the route (I watch a handful of trains roll by from my office window every day) and it would provide downtown Burlington a rail link to Middlebury, Rutland and Albany, as well as a much more time competitive time to New York versus the Vermonter.

 

[wayman]

If Vermont really is going with DMUs (which they seem to be) and they had every car powered (which they don't seem to be doing), they could also have the southbound Vermonter break one car of at Brattleboro which would head along the Fitchburg Line to Boston (assuming there was adequate track capacity, anyway).

Assuming there was adequate track capacity ... and assuming they were sure they'd have the ridership, and assuming they could do the switching, and assuming they could pay an additional engineer, conductor, and car attendant to run it....

 

[printman2000]

The express bus Bos-Alb took only 2.5 hours. So now we have 4 hours to kill at the station. Oh well, rather wait here than on a bus. I know tomorrow is bus (6/26). Not sure how long it will continue.

 

[Zephyr Rocket]

Thanks for the info on the bus! I will be heading to Boston on 448 next week so this is good to know. Acutually the bus might help me out because it would be nice to arrive into Boston earlier than the 9:45 arrival on the train.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Interesting thought. However, I doubt the service would be very popular unless somehow the speeds were substantially improved. At present that connection would take about 6-7 hours, when Vermont Transit buses get there in 4.5. Now granted, I would much prefer to ride the train, but I just think that it just couldn't get the necessary ridership to justify the existence of such a split. And, as you mentioned, only one of the cars will be powered.

You seem to be arguing that if the bus will save about 1.5 to 2.5 hours, a train will not get adequate ridership. If this is true, why is it that ridership on #448/#449 (where I'm quite sure the bus will save 1.5 to 2.5 hours) is very much nonzero?

Also, I don't think there's anything that would stop them from experimenting with this buy running one trainset with two DMUs and the other trainset with a P42 and two unpowered CRC cars, and only breaking up the former. Or they could always buy some more DMUs if the first five cars work out.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

If Vermont really is going with DMUs (which they seem to be) and they had every car powered (which they don't seem to be doing), they could also have the southbound Vermonter break one car of at Brattleboro which would head along the Fitchburg Line to Boston (assuming there was adequate track capacity, anyway).

Assuming there was adequate track capacity ... and assuming they were sure they'd have the ridership, and assuming they could do the switching, and assuming they could pay an additional engineer, conductor, and car attendant to run it....

Why in the world would they need a car attendant? The BOS-NPN trains don't have coach attendants, just an engineer, a conductor, assistant conductors to deal with the number of cars, and a cafe attendant; but they probably don't need a cafe attendant between BON and Brattleboro if they have any food service on the CRC version of the Vermonter at all.

And once they have the additional engineer and conductor, and had each car self-powered, would they need anything more than ten minutes sitting in the station to deal with breaking the train apart? Does the switching have other complexities I'm missing?

 

[transit54]

Interesting thought. However, I doubt the service would be very popular unless somehow the speeds were substantially improved. At present that connection would take about 6-7 hours, when Vermont Transit buses get there in 4.5. Now granted, I would much prefer to ride the train, but I just think that it just couldn't get the necessary ridership to justify the existence of such a split. And, as you mentioned, only one of the cars will be powered.

You seem to be arguing that if the bus will save about 1.5 to 2.5 hours, a train will not get adequate ridership. If this is true, why is it that ridership on #448/#449 (where I'm quite sure the bus will save 1.5 to 2.5 hours) is very much nonzero?

Also, I don't think there's anything that would stop them from experimenting with this buy running one trainset with two DMUs and the other trainset with a P42 and two unpowered CRC cars, and only breaking up the former. Or they could always buy some more DMUs if the first five cars work out.

Well, the reason that 448/449 has ridership is because it connections with other trains, namely the LSL. If I'm going on a train trip, I'm not going to want to start it off with a bus ride. Also, Albany and Boston are two very large areas. You'll get ridership between them that you wouldn't get between Boston and Burlington, given the sizes of city involved.

And I think its less the time savings by bus, and more the comparable time to drive the distance. Boston to Burlington can be driven in slightly more than 3 hours. I think very, very few people would sit on a train for 7 hours for something that can be driven in less than half that. And I think most of those who don't want to drive will take the bus. I just don't think it would be a successful route, at least not enough to justify the use of VT state funds to provide the link. I think there's a lot more useful rail projects that could be put in place with that money. Besides, there would be little savings over connecting to 448/449, except when going eastbound. Back when the connection eastbound was better, it still took the whole day to get to Boston. I just don't think that's something a lot of people want to do.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Since when did they decide on going with the CRC again? I thought that dumped when CRC did not agree to their ridiculous terms.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Since when did they decide on going with the CRC again? I thought that dumped when CRC did not agree to their ridiculous terms.

See the more recent posts in this thread

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I thought they grew a brain or something. They'd be better off with refurbished RDCs.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I went to a presentation last night by people who are strongly in favor of the North South Rail Link. They made enthusiastic mention of CRC DMUs in one slide. I was a little confused, because I thought CRC DMUs were diesel-only, and the NSRL is ``impossible'' to ventilate well enough to run diesels through it due to its length or something. Nevermind that it's mostly going to be built directly underneath the I-93 tunnel, which apparently is ventilated well enough for internal combustion engines. In any event, I do think running trains through tunnels in an electrified fashion is generally a good idea.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I was just refering to the general concept that CRC MUs are "crap"