There was some talk in the early 2010s about using the St. Lawrence and Atlantic Railroad for passenger service between Portland ME and Montreal. The route goes {Portland - Lewiston - Bethel - Gorham, Berlin - Island Pond to the border at Norton, Vt.
Boston - Montreal new rail alignment
- Thread starter jacoblaw
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
That route would have the benefit that the line is still in service at least West/North of Danville Jct. The section south of there is intact but OOS from DJ to the B&M Bean plant. They would have to figure out where to put a station in Portland. Originally the line ran across a swing bridge that would have to be rebuilt, plus the right of way along the harbor doesn't exist anymore IIRC.
CaptPete 43
Train Attendant
I love Montreal and Quebec, however this has to be route not suitable for passenger rail.
danasgoodstuff
OBS Chief
Why?
Because one train a day, even if it's decently patronized, is not worth the capital expenses needed to rebuild abandoned trackage and improve existing trackage, not to mention obtaining rolling stock and staffing up. Trains are really cost-effective if they are transporting very heavy passenger loads.
Ant money would be better spent increasing frequency on the Boston-Springfield route, and perhaps service between Boston and Montreal could be provided via Springfield. It would also be cost-effective to provide additional frequencies on the Vermonter route.
By the way, reviving the overnight Montrealer wouldn't be totally irrelevant to the needs of Vermonters. Based on his old schedule:
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track6/montrealer196009.html
The Montrealer provided perfectly decent overnight service from Burlington (Essex Jct.) and Montpelier to New York and the NEC with 11 PM - midnight departures southbound and 5 -6 AM arrivals northbound. It might be possible to fiddle with the schedule to also have semi-decent calling times for White River Junction (Lebanon-Hanover). Kind of like a Night Owl Service to Vermont. With connections at Springfield for Boston, too.
I agree with this. When you consider that we can't even get a few miles of track upgraded in Quebec for the Adirondack, yet we want to get an entire abandoned or inactive route back in service for a pair of trains per day.
fdaley
OBS Chief
Why not just switch off the St. Lawrence & Atlantic at Danville Junction and follow the main Pan Am line down to Royal Junction, joining the existing Downeaster route there? There is no need to use any track that isn't already in active freight or passenger service.
That makes sense, although would likely rekindle the Boston North Station vs. South Station debate when it came to connections and servicing.
In general, I think the only true viable way for Amtrak to run a Boston-Montreal route is through South Station and a connection at Springfield. If east-west rail happens, it will make a Boston-Montreal one-seat-ride actually possible, though not probable -making it happen is a whole different thing entirely.
It seems to me that the only way for there to be a Boston-Montreal train through north station would be through a private company - though i may be wrong.
It seems to me that the only way for there to be a Boston-Montreal train through north station would be through a private company - though i may be wrong.
You could also continue down the SLR to Yarmouth Jct. where the line crosses the Brunswick Branch. There is a connecting track that would have to be reinstalled for the train to switch to head west on the Brunswick Branch. It would have the advantage of minimizing the amount of the CSX (former PanAm) freight main that would have to be used, basically the same as the current Downeaster.
But this is all a pipe dream anyway, I agree with what @Ticooper says above, the most practical way to do this is via Springfield. But it is fun to speculate.
They could take a shortcut from Boston by turning north at Palmer and go thru Amherst, as the Montrealer did from Springfield for a period of time....
Didn't the Montrealer come up from New London and totally skip Springfield during the last days of its run?
fdaley
OBS Chief
It did indeed run via New London. There was even a middle-of-the-night stop at Willimantic which I actually used on one trip.
fdaley
OBS Chief
If I'm remembering correctly, the line from Yarmouth Junction north is what NNEPRA has been discussing as a way to extend the Downeaster up to Auburn, apparently to avoid conflicts on the CSX line. So if they get some money from the federal infrastructure law to do this, that route might become a viable option for service farther north, given that the St. Lawrence & Atlantic is in much better shape north (west) of Danville Junction. But from there down to Yarmouth Junction looks pretty decrepit at the moment.
And yes, if the idea is to have an Amtrak service from Boston to Montreal, a routing via Springfield seems like it could be achieved much more easily, given that only the portion north of St. Albans doesn't currently have Amtrak service. Of course, north of the border it faces the same issues that the Adirondack has. And the trip time would be so long that it would probably only be tolerable as an overnight run.
There is, however, a private operator in Canada, discussed in another thread, who has been talking up the idea of a Boston-Montreal overnight train with a routing via Sherbrooke, Portland and Old Orchard. I find it hard to believe it will ever happen, but it's nice to dream.
Last edited:
You’re both correct…thanks…I did ride it but my memory is not what it was…
I believe it was due to track conditions on it’s original route at that time, so Amherst and Willimantic enjoyed service, briefly, albeit in the late night..
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
IIRC even the Vermonter ran via Palmer for a while until the Eminent Domain proceedings against Guilford took its course and the condemned line was taken over along the Connecticut river to be put back into passenger service.You’re both correct…thanks…I did ride it but my memory is not what it was…
I believe it was due to track conditions on it’s original route at that time, so Amherst and Willimantic enjoyed service, briefly, albeit in the late night..
fdaley
OBS Chief
Yes, the switch off the New London and Willimantic route happened when the Montrealer was replaced by the Vermonter in April 1995. After that, the train ran via Hartford and Springfield, reversing direction at Springfield and again at Palmer and then proceeding up the CV route through Amherst. It followed that route for many years, well over a decade (closer to two?), before the Northampton route was revived.
Last edited:
I was fortunate to be able to ride the Vermonter back when it ran via New London and the New England Central (former CV) route as far as Randolph when I went to visit my parents who were staying in Warren. Some rare mileage on what was normally a freight only line as far as White River Jct. I don't recall the date but it was long ago enough that the train was all Heritage Fleet cars, the car I was riding in was a former ATSF coach.
Latest posts
-
Revival of Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner- Latest: AmtrakMaineiac
-
-
Connecticut Inland Route and Albany - Boston Corridor (Compass Service)
- Latest: AmtrakMaineiac
-
-
-
-
-
-