CA Zephyr

[Ilovetrains]

While I'm getting "souped up" about my trip on the Zephyr late next month , I have been reading everything I see about AMTRAK and/or CA Zephyr.

From my reading it seems the better luck to get to ride in a re-furbished sleeper car. Is only a small percentage of Zephyr cars refurbished? Is there anyway to know if you have been booked on a refurbished sleeper car?

Thanks.

Ilovetrains

 

[AlanB]

There is no way to tell in advance what type of car you'll find on the Zephyr, and cars are not permenantly assigned to the Zephyr. So there is no way to tell you how many of the Zephyr's cars have been refurbished.

Only the Empire Builder guarantees one a refurbished car. All other Amtrak trains may have an unrefurbished Superliner I, or a Superliner II (none of which have been refurbished), or a refurbished Superliner I. And there are different levels of refurbishment even within the Superline I fleet.

 

[yarrow]

my opinion, from travel on the eb in cosmetically refurbished sleepers and on the cs in unrefrubished, is that it is no big deal. the eb sleepers are great and so were the cs cars. everything worked, both were comfortable and in some ways i preferred the "retro" feel of the yet to be refurbished

 

[Mark]

The CZ and SWC go by a few blocks from my house and I watch for them fairly regularly. I wouldn't worry too much, it looks to me that you have a pretty good chance of getting a refurbished sleeper. However, the ride is still a good one even if you have to take one that hasn't been refurbished yet.

 

[AlanB]

The CZ and SWC go by a few blocks from my house and I watch for them fairly regularly. I wouldn't worry too much, it looks to me that you have a pretty good chance of getting a refurbished sleeper. However, the ride is still a good one even if you have to take one that hasn't been refurbished yet.

Actually I would think that the odds of getting a refurbished sleeper aren't very good at all. Consider the following:

Amtrak has 105 active Superliner sleepers.

Only about 40% of them, or 41 to be precise have been refurbished.

I believe, assuming that my quick numbers are correct (5 trainsets X 3 sleepers per set), that at least 15 of the refurbished sleepers are dedicated to the Empire Builder. They probably hold even one or two more in reserve for bad ordered cars on the EB.

That leaves only 26 refurbished sleepers to pop up on other Amtrak routes and 64 unrefurbished sleepers in the rotation.

 

[Mark]

The CZ and SWC go by a few blocks from my house and I watch for them fairly regularly. I wouldn't worry too much, it looks to me that you have a pretty good chance of getting a refurbished sleeper. However, the ride is still a good one even if you have to take one that hasn't been refurbished yet.

Actually I would think that the odds of getting a refurbished sleeper aren't very good at all. Consider the following:

Amtrak has 105 active Superliner sleepers.

Only about 40% of them, or 41 to be precise have been refurbished.

I believe, assuming that my quick numbers are correct (5 trainsets X 3 sleepers per set), that at least 15 of the refurbished sleepers are dedicated to the Empire Builder. They probably hold even one or two more in reserve for bad ordered cars on the EB.

That leaves only 26 refurbished sleepers to pop up on other Amtrak routes and 64 unrefurbished sleepers in the rotation.

Hmmmmph- here we go. Sure, mathmatically speaking, (I didn't have any stats in front of me- I was just making a casual observation as the SWC and CZ go through my neighborhood), maybe not. However now that I have been paying attention: I would say in the last four or five days on 3-4 and 5-6, that two out of three sleepers, (when three sleepers are in the consist), seem to be refurbished on each train. Of course I'm not on board so I am speaking from the standpoint of the exterior 'phase 5', (as some refer to it), paint scheme. Which in every case I've encountered, if the outside has been redone the inside has been refurbished as well. I sure there are probably some exceptions to this but I have yet to encounter one that had the new scheme outside but was still the old version on the interior.

Nor did I observe every train as #6 can come in VERY late but based on my actual observation- I disagree. If I were a betting man, (and I am), I would say that one has a better than 50%, (66.666% to be exact), chance of getting a refurbished sleeper on the CZ and or SWC if they traveled in the last 4-5 days and had three sleepers in the consist.

 

[AlanB]

Hmmmmph- here we go. Sure, mathmatically speaking, (I didn't have any stats in front of me- I was just making a casual observation as the SWC and CZ go through my neighborhood), maybe not. However now that I have been paying attention: I would say in the last four or five days on 3-4 and 5-6, that two out of three sleepers, (when three sleepers are in the consist), seem to be refurbished on each train. Of course I'm not on board so I am speaking from the standpoint of the exterior 'phase 5', (as some refer to it), paint scheme. Which in every case I've encountered, if the outside has been redone the inside has been refurbished as well. I sure there are probably some exceptions to this but I have yet to encounter one that had the new scheme outside but was still the old version on the interior.
Nor did I observe every train as #6 can come in VERY late but based on my actual observation- I disagree. If I were a betting man, (and I am), I would say that one has a better than 50%, (66.666% to be exact), chance of getting a refurbished sleeper on the CZ and or SWC if they traveled in the last 4-5 days and had three sleepers in the consist.

Well the best way to tell is by car number, not paint scheme. If the number is between 32000 and 32069, then there is at least a chance that it has been refurbed. If it's 32070 or higher, then it definately hasn't been refurbed.

Last I knew, although things could have changed, the SW Chief used only Superliner II sleepers, the 32070 and higher numbers.

The CZ on the other hand does use Superliner I's, so the odds do go up for that train. On my recent trip, of the 4 sleepers that I saw, one was fully refurbed with new showers and bathrooms. Two were partial refurbs with the wood paneling, new carpets, and new seats and beds; but the bathrooms were still original. The fourth car was not refurbed at all IIRC.

 

[Guest]

They go by me too fast to get the numbers- but today 7/29/06 the stars lined up and I was able to see both CZs and SWCs. All of them had 2 sleepers on the hind end and all were in the latest paint scheme. In fact only the diner on #3 was painted in the previous scheme and perhaps a coach on #6 that I could see.

 

[AlanB]

They go by me too fast to get the numbers- but today 7/29/06 the stars lined up and I was able to see both CZs and SWCs. All of them had 2 sleepers on the hind end and all were in the latest paint scheme. In fact only the diner on #3 was painted in the previous scheme and perhaps a coach on #6 that I could see.

Which would only serve to confirm that the only way to identify a refurbed sleeper is by number, since no diners and almost no coaches have been rebuilt, yet they are all in the latest paint scheme.

 

[Mark]

They go by me too fast to get the numbers- but today 7/29/06 the stars lined up and I was able to see both CZs and SWCs. All of them had 2 sleepers on the hind end and all were in the latest paint scheme. In fact only the diner on #3 was painted in the previous scheme and perhaps a coach on #6 that I could see.

Which would only serve to confirm that the only way to identify a refurbed sleeper is by number, since no diners and almost no coaches have been rebuilt, yet they are all in the latest paint scheme.

Why would they rotate the cars through Beech Grove just to put new stickers on them then send them back out without doing any sort of refurbishing? That sounds crazy. While I have not ridden the CZ lately, I rode the SWC back in March and the coaches looked internally similar to those I've encountered on the EB. Are we talking refurbished or rebuilt? I take refurbished as a cosmetic overhaul- new seats, carpets, etc as well as a re-stripe on the outside.

I'll be on the EB in October for a short trip so I'll pay closer attention to the details.

 

[AlanB]

They go by me too fast to get the numbers- but today 7/29/06 the stars lined up and I was able to see both CZs and SWCs. All of them had 2 sleepers on the hind end and all were in the latest paint scheme. In fact only the diner on #3 was painted in the previous scheme and perhaps a coach on #6 that I could see.

Which would only serve to confirm that the only way to identify a refurbed sleeper is by number, since no diners and almost no coaches have been rebuilt, yet they are all in the latest paint scheme.

Why would they rotate the cars through Beech Grove just to put new stickers on them then send them back out without doing any sort of refurbishing? That sounds crazy. While I have not ridden the CZ lately, I rode the SWC back in March and the coaches looked internally similar to those I've encountered on the EB. Are we talking refurbished or rebuilt? I take refurbished as a cosmetic overhaul- new seats, carpets, etc as well as a re-stripe on the outside.

I'll be on the EB in October for a short trip so I'll pay closer attention to the details.

With the exception of some cars that were wrecked and required rebuilding, most of the sleeping cars have only been refurbished, not rebuilt. Almost all of the 41 of the Superliner I sleeping cars that I mentioned above, have only received new furnishings. The A/C, plumbing, heating, and the electrical systems remain original and have not been rebuilt or replaced on the majority of the sleeping cars. Everything is cosmetic. I probably shouldn't have used the word rebuilt in my reply above, since very little coming out of Beech Grove is rebuilt.

But just because a car has the new stripes on its side does not mean that it got rebuilt or refurbished. Cars go in and out of Beech Grove for many other reasons, aside from needing a rebuild, a refurbishment, or even a new stripe. The most common reason being an overhaul. But my understanding is that an overhaul is a far cry from a full refurbishment like we were seeing in the Superliner I sleeping car fleet, until the program got cancelled last year.

AFAIK, an overhaul means fixing things that are broken, replacing cushions that are really in poor condition (perhaps even all cushions), as well as dealing with certain FRA mandated inspections and parts replacement. A refurbished sleeper means new carpets, new cushions and mattresses, new curtains, new wood paneling in the car at a minimum. The full treatment also got new lights, new bathrooms, and new showers. But beyond that, nothing that makes the car actually work was touched unfortunately. AFAIK, no coaches or diners have received such treatments. Some lounge cars have been updated, tables added on the upper level, and the seats replaced and fixed in position on the other end. But even those cars to my knowledge retain the original bathrooms.

 

[AmtrakCrescent20]

They go by me too fast to get the numbers- but today 7/29/06 the stars lined up and I was able to see both CZs and SWCs. All of them had 2 sleepers on the hind end and all were in the latest paint scheme. In fact only the diner on #3 was painted in the previous scheme and perhaps a coach on #6 that I could see.

Which would only serve to confirm that the only way to identify a refurbed sleeper is by number, since no diners and almost no coaches have been rebuilt, yet they are all in the latest paint scheme.

Why would they rotate the cars through Beech Grove just to put new stickers on them then send them back out without doing any sort of refurbishing? That sounds crazy. While I have not ridden the CZ lately, I rode the SWC back in March and the coaches looked internally similar to those I've encountered on the EB. Are we talking refurbished or rebuilt? I take refurbished as a cosmetic overhaul- new seats, carpets, etc as well as a re-stripe on the outside.

I'll be on the EB in October for a short trip so I'll pay closer attention to the details.

With the exception of some cars that were wrecked and required rebuilding, most of the sleeping cars have only been refurbished, not rebuilt. Almost all of the 41 of the Superliner I sleeping cars that I mentioned above, have only received new furnishings. The A/C, plumbing, heating, and the electrical systems remain original and have not been rebuilt or replaced on the majority of the sleeping cars. Everything is cosmetic. I probably shouldn't have used the word rebuilt in my reply above, since very little coming out of Beech Grove is rebuilt.

But just because a car has the new stripes on its side does not mean that it got rebuilt or refurbished. Cars go in and out of Beech Grove for many other reasons, aside from needing a rebuild, a refurbishment, or even a new stripe. The most common reason being an overhaul. But my understanding is that an overhaul is a far cry from a full refurbishment like we were seeing in the Superliner I sleeping car fleet, until the program got cancelled last year.

AFAIK, an overhaul means fixing things that are broken, replacing cushions that are really in poor condition (perhaps even all cushions), as well as dealing with certain FRA mandated inspections and parts replacement. A refurbished sleeper means new carpets, new cushions and mattresses, new curtains, new wood paneling in the car at a minimum. The full treatment also got new lights, new bathrooms, and new showers. But beyond that, nothing that makes the car actually work was touched unfortunately. AFAIK, no coaches or diners have received such treatments. Some lounge cars have been updated, tables added on the upper level, and the seats replaced and fixed in position on the other end. But even those cars to my knowledge retain the original bathrooms.

I can confirm this-I was on the Texas Eagle last December and the regular sleeper (a Superliner I) was painted in phase IVb, but only the seat upholstery was in the new blue. Everything else was in the original orange/brown color scheme.