California Zephyr

[AlanB]

Agree that OBS staff is USUALLY not to blame for conditions such as the OP reported, but it some small measure, if OBS crews did a better job of cleaning en route, the "appalling" conditions would be lessened somewhat.

The cafe attendant is on duty from 6:00 AM to Midnight, with short breaks for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. But otherwise they are on their feet and on the go all day long. In addition to their actual duties of selling, inventorying, heating up food, they already have to take care of dumping the garbage along the way, clean the restroom (which is why some take the unacceptable practice of locking the room and pretending like the bathroom is out of order), and picking up the general garbage left behind by inconsiderate passengers who think that mommy or a maid are coming to clean up after them.

Expecting the attendant to also start looking into every nook and cranny and clean same is just too much, I'm sorry. Especially since that is not what they were hired to do in the first place. They were hired to sell food and merchandise to the passengers. That is their primary job, with safety being their secondary job.

No, the problem lies with the cleaning crews in the stations and yards. They aren't doing their jobs properly, and yes as Larry suggested, they also aren't being supervised properly. Of course that opens up Pandora's Box too, as many people already think that Amtrak has too many managers, although that situation has been corrected somewhat over the last 8 years or so. And in defense of the yard/station crews, there are times when it simply isn't possible to properly clean. When the Empire Builder arrives into Portland on time, they have a little less than 7 hours to clean that train and get it ready for that afternoon's departure. Six hours is considered the minimum time by Amtrak to properly clean a train.

So if the westbound is 3 hours late that morning, there isn't time for a proper cleaning. The crews have to do the best that they can under rushed circumstances.

The problem remains though, that some crews just seem to clean like they always have limited time, and just don't do their jobs right, even when they do have the proper amount of time.

 

[Larry H.]

Alan,

I pretty much agree with you. But as all things in todays world, jobs and efforts change due to circumstances. In the area of retail I was in people who used to think of them selves as only "sales clerks" found that they were expected to dust those racks and clean the glass as a part of their duties. Some even drag out the vacuum cleaner when some additional help was needed. The problem to a degree is partly that the crews do not particularly wish to be involved in tidying up beyond their traditional roles. Yes I do agree that they shouldn't have too. But not many today have the luxury of saying they won't. Expect perhaps in highly Unionized jobs. Nothing wrong with Unions as long as they are flexible enough to go along with the demands of change and times. If it were my job to work a particular car and saw something I knew was going to upset the passengers and I could easily fix it, I would. I think too often some look the other way because "it is someone else's job". The real focus should be on how the paying passengers are going to see the trip. And from what I am reading here and almost always have, they are not pleased.

That isn't meant to lessen the fact that the cars as you say are leaving the yards in unexceptable condition as has long been reported. That is a matter of enough help and proper supervision. Even a fast food restaurant can have a check list in the rest rooms of things that are in order. So can amtrak, and probably do, but they are failing to insure their own standards no doubt. All along the chain people forget they are "selling tickets", often at fairly substantial prices. They need to act like it. Instead some here tell us to forget it were only along for the ride. You couldn't walk into any decent hotel and find those standards in place, nor should you. Can you imagine sitting down to dinner in a hotel that charged 600.00 a night and finding filthy conditions surrounding you.

 

[AlanB]

Larry,

I too wouldn't disagree with most of what you wrote. A sales clerk being asked to dust, or vacuum the store when there are no customers around in my mind isn't out of order, nor should it be beyond the call of duty. But sales clerks typically work 8 hour shifts or less, or if they do go over, get paid overtime.

An LSA in a cafe car is on duty esentially for 16 hours straight, with no overtime. Yes, they do get a decent salary, but that's still a very long day of work, with only a few breaks along the way. And that shift means that they are awake for some 19 hours minimum, by the time they shine, shower, and shave in the morning before going on duty and working through Midnight. And on a full passenger train, the bulk of the day does see a rather steady stream of people coming down to buy stuff.

So expecting them to deal with the garbage, tidy the restroom, wipe down tables, and picking up easily visible trash is in my mind about the outer limits of what anyone can expect from the LSA with the limited time they have in between customers. Expecting them to look behind seats and clean, or to dust is simply asking for way too much of one person, especially on a two night/three day trip IMHO.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

the train should at least get some cleaning when it goes into the yard to prepare the train for turn around.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

the train should at least get some cleaning when it goes into the yard to prepare the train for turn around.

They do. <_<

 

[profwebs]

The cafe attendant is on duty from 6:00 AM to Midnight, with short breaks for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. But otherwise they are on their feet and on the go all day long. In addition to their actual duties of selling, inventorying, heating up food, they already have to take care of dumping the garbage along the way, clean the restroom (which is why some take the unacceptable practice of locking the room and pretending like the bathroom is out of order), and picking up the general garbage left behind by inconsiderate passengers who think that mommy or a maid are coming to clean up after them.
Expecting the attendant to also start looking into every nook and cranny and clean same is just too much, I'm sorry. Especially since that is not what they were hired to do in the first place. They were hired to sell food and merchandise to the passengers. That is their primary job, with safety being their secondary job.

Glad I waited to comment on this. I didn't realize that there was only 1 LSA working the entire time. Those hours are crazy even at what $16 an hour? At first, I thought it was laziness on the LSA's part, but I had no idea they worked those kind of hours. They should have a minimum of 3, 1 hour breaks.

That doesn't remedy the situation however and in the event the train is late and doesn't have time for a thorough cleaning, maybe they could have an extra board cleaner come on and ride for the first couple of stops to get the car cleaned up.

I would never go back to a restaurant where I saw what the OP saw in this car. Having worked in a kitchen for a while, keeping things sanitary is part of "safety" in my opinion.

 

[AlanB]

Glad I waited to comment on this. I didn't realize that there was only 1 LSA working the entire time. Those hours are crazy even at what $16 an hour? At first, I thought it was laziness on the LSA's part, but I had no idea they worked those kind of hours. They should have a minimum of 3, 1 hour breaks.

They do get three breaks for meals, but I'm not sure if they are 45 minutes or 60 minutes. But even with those three breaks that's still makes for a very, very long day in the cafe car. As again, they open at 6:00 AM and usually don't close until Midnight.

 

[sunchaser]

I don't think that they should be required to do deep cleaning, all I'm saying is that a quick wipe of an area when needed should be enough. I think most people would prefer not to stick to a table or counter where they are eating or buying food.

I also think that if any employee sees something that clearly needs more than that in their area, they should at least try to get it cleaned as they have time available.

The situation Catblue described sounds like it may have been overlooked or possibly ignored for a long period of time.

I do think that cleaning is part of any food oriented job-anywhere that food is served, clean up comes with it.

I'm not saying they are being lazy, & I'm sure there is a certain amount of stress since they are allowed limited off time.

Don't they shut down the cafe car during stops? That would provide extra breaks for them too, which is ok.

 

[ThayerATM]

I don't think that they should be required to do deep cleaning, all I'm saying is that a quick wipe of an area when needed should be enough. I think most people would prefer not to stick to a table or counter where they are eating or buying food. I also think that if any employee sees something that clearly needs more than that in their area, they should at least try to get it cleaned as they have time available.

The situation Catblue described sounds like it may have been overlooked or possibly ignored for a long period of time.

I do think that cleaning is part of any food oriented job-anywhere that food is served, clean up comes with it.

I'm not saying they are being lazy, & I'm sure there is a certain amount of stress since they are allowed limited off time.

Don't they shut down the cafe car during stops? That would provide extra breaks for them too, which is ok.

Will someone please explain to me: What is a "Cafe" car?

I'm familiar with all the following cars:

Cross Country Cafe Car. Pacific Parlor Car. Full Diner Car. Lounge Car. Observation Car. Diner Lite Car. Sight Seerer Lounge Car.

Since this thread started out talking about a trip on the Zephyr, I'm getting a bit confused about what type of car any person is speaking about. The use of the term "Cafe Car" seems to be being used interchangably with just about everything, and I'd like to understand what car everybody's talking about.

What is the "CAFE CAR" on the Zephyr?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I don't think that they should be required to do deep cleaning, all I'm saying is that a quick wipe of an area when needed should be enough. I think most people would prefer not to stick to a table or counter where they are eating or buying food. I also think that if any employee sees something that clearly needs more than that in their area, they should at least try to get it cleaned as they have time available.

The situation Catblue described sounds like it may have been overlooked or possibly ignored for a long period of time.

I do think that cleaning is part of any food oriented job-anywhere that food is served, clean up comes with it.

I'm not saying they are being lazy, & I'm sure there is a certain amount of stress since they are allowed limited off time.

Don't they shut down the cafe car during stops? That would provide extra breaks for them too, which is ok.

Will someone please explain to me: What is a "Cafe" car?

I'm familiar with all the following cars:

Cross Country Cafe Car. Pacific Parlor Car. Full Diner Car. Lounge Car. Observation Car. Diner Lite Car. Sight Seerer Lounge Car.

Since this thread started out talking about a trip on the Zephyr, I'm getting a bit confused about what type of car any person is speaking about. The use of the term "Cafe Car" seems to be being used interchangably with just about everything, and I'd like to understand what car everybody's talking about.

What is the "CAFE CAR" on the Zephyre?

The lower level of the Sightseer Lounge is a café.

 

[ThayerATM]

I don't think that they should be required to do deep cleaning, all I'm saying is that a quick wipe of an area when needed should be enough. I think most people would prefer not to stick to a table or counter where they are eating or buying food. I also think that if any employee sees something that clearly needs more than that in their area, they should at least try to get it cleaned as they have time available.

The situation Catblue described sounds like it may have been overlooked or possibly ignored for a long period of time.

I do think that cleaning is part of any food oriented job-anywhere that food is served, clean up comes with it.

I'm not saying they are being lazy, & I'm sure there is a certain amount of stress since they are allowed limited off time.

Don't they shut down the cafe car during stops? That would provide extra breaks for them too, which is ok.

Will someone please explain to me: What is a "Cafe" car?

I'm familiar with all the following cars:

Cross Country Cafe Car. Pacific Parlor Car. Full Diner Car. Lounge Car. Observation Car. Diner Lite Car. Sight Seerer Lounge Car.

Since this thread started out talking about a trip on the Zephyr, I'm getting a bit confused about what type of car any person is speaking about. The use of the term "Cafe Car" seems to be being used interchangably with just about everything, and I'd like to understand what car everybody's talking about.

What is the "CAFE CAR" on the Zephyre?

The lower level of the Sightseer Lounge is a café.

OK... Does that make it "The Cafe Car", or does that make it the lower level of the "Sightseer Lounge Car"?

 

[profwebs]

I don't think that they should be required to do deep cleaning, all I'm saying is that a quick wipe of an area when needed should be enough. I think most people would prefer not to stick to a table or counter where they are eating or buying food. I also think that if any employee sees something that clearly needs more than that in their area, they should at least try to get it cleaned as they have time available.

The situation Catblue described sounds like it may have been overlooked or possibly ignored for a long period of time.

I do think that cleaning is part of any food oriented job-anywhere that food is served, clean up comes with it.

I'm not saying they are being lazy, & I'm sure there is a certain amount of stress since they are allowed limited off time.

Don't they shut down the cafe car during stops? That would provide extra breaks for them too, which is ok.

Will someone please explain to me: What is a "Cafe" car?

I'm familiar with all the following cars:

Cross Country Cafe Car. Pacific Parlor Car. Full Diner Car. Lounge Car. Observation Car. Diner Lite Car. Sight Seerer Lounge Car.

Since this thread started out talking about a trip on the Zephyr, I'm getting a bit confused about what type of car any person is speaking about. The use of the term "Cafe Car" seems to be being used interchangably with just about everything, and I'd like to understand what car everybody's talking about.

What is the "CAFE CAR" on the Zephyr?

Cafe A café (pronounced /ˈkæfeɪ/ or /kæˈfeɪ/), also spelled cafe, is an informal restaurant offering a range of hot meals and made-to-order sandwiches.[

 

[ThayerATM]

I don't think that they should be required to do deep cleaning, all I'm saying is that a quick wipe of an area when needed should be enough. I think most people would prefer not to stick to a table or counter where they are eating or buying food. I also think that if any employee sees something that clearly needs more than that in their area, they should at least try to get it cleaned as they have time available.

The situation Catblue described sounds like it may have been overlooked or possibly ignored for a long period of time.

I do think that cleaning is part of any food oriented job-anywhere that food is served, clean up comes with it.

I'm not saying they are being lazy, & I'm sure there is a certain amount of stress since they are allowed limited off time.

Don't they shut down the cafe car during stops? That would provide extra breaks for them too, which is ok.

Will someone please explain to me: What is a "Cafe" car?

I'm familiar with all the following cars:

Cross Country Cafe Car. Pacific Parlor Car. Full Diner Car. Lounge Car. Observation Car. Diner Lite Car. Sight Seerer Lounge Car.

Since this thread started out talking about a trip on the Zephyr, I'm getting a bit confused about what type of car any person is speaking about. The use of the term "Cafe Car" seems to be being used interchangably with just about everything, and I'd like to understand what car everybody's talking about.

What is the "CAFE CAR" on the Zephyr?

Cafe A café (pronounced /ˈkæfeɪ/ or /kæˈfeɪ/), also spelled cafe, is an informal restaurant offering a range of hot meals and made-to-order sandwiches.[

I'm perfectly willing to accept the definition of "Cafe" as used by the persons posting. What I'm having difficulty is with understanding exactly what car they're speaking about. As far as I know, the only car that is specifically called a "Cafe Car" is the "Cross Country Cafe" car that was on the Zephyr when we stepped off the Zephyr on the 29th of September. As far as I know, no other car is called a "Cafe Car" by Amtrak.

Perhaps it might be better to refer to the "Cafe" as the "lower level of the Lounge Car"?, of maybe the "Cafe section of the Lounge Car?"

 

[sunchaser]

For purposes of clarification, on the California Zephyr, it is the 'snack bar' on the lower level of the sightseer car that I am referring to here. That's what was in the consist in June 30th/July 12th this year.

Yup I'm guilty of using the wrong word. My bad. I was assuming that's what Catblue meant too.

IIRC, it used to be referred to as Cafe/Lounge on the lower level, at least I think that's what I've seen in other posts.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I don't think that they should be required to do deep cleaning, all I'm saying is that a quick wipe of an area when needed should be enough. I think most people would prefer not to stick to a table or counter where they are eating or buying food. I also think that if any employee sees something that clearly needs more than that in their area, they should at least try to get it cleaned as they have time available.

The situation Catblue described sounds like it may have been overlooked or possibly ignored for a long period of time.

I do think that cleaning is part of any food oriented job-anywhere that food is served, clean up comes with it.

I'm not saying they are being lazy, & I'm sure there is a certain amount of stress since they are allowed limited off time.

Don't they shut down the cafe car during stops? That would provide extra breaks for them too, which is ok.

Will someone please explain to me: What is a "Cafe" car?

I'm familiar with all the following cars:

Cross Country Cafe Car. Pacific Parlor Car. Full Diner Car. Lounge Car. Observation Car. Diner Lite Car. Sight Seerer Lounge Car.

Since this thread started out talking about a trip on the Zephyr, I'm getting a bit confused about what type of car any person is speaking about. The use of the term "Cafe Car" seems to be being used interchangably with just about everything, and I'd like to understand what car everybody's talking about.

What is the "CAFE CAR" on the Zephyr?

Cafe A café (pronounced /ˈkæfeɪ/ or /kæˈfeɪ/), also spelled cafe, is an informal restaurant offering a range of hot meals and made-to-order sandwiches.[

I'm perfectly willing to accept the definition of "Cafe" as used by the persons posting. What I'm having difficulty is with understanding exactly what car they're speaking about. As far as I know, the only car that is specifically called a "Cafe Car" is the "Cross Country Cafe" car that was on the Zephyr when we stepped off the Zephyr on the 29th of September. As far as I know, no other car is called a "Cafe Car" by Amtrak.

Perhaps it might be better to refer to the "Cafe" as the "lower level of the Lounge Car"?, of maybe the "Cafe section of the Lounge Car?"

Because in one word I can say what you're saying in six and most people know what I'm talking about.

By the way if you look at the guiding signs in superliners above the stairwell the point out where the bathrooms are-- its called the "cafe"

 

[AlanB]

I don't think that they should be required to do deep cleaning, all I'm saying is that a quick wipe of an area when needed should be enough. I think most people would prefer not to stick to a table or counter where they are eating or buying food. I also think that if any employee sees something that clearly needs more than that in their area, they should at least try to get it cleaned as they have time available.

The situation Catblue described sounds like it may have been overlooked or possibly ignored for a long period of time.

I do think that cleaning is part of any food oriented job-anywhere that food is served, clean up comes with it.

I'm not saying they are being lazy, & I'm sure there is a certain amount of stress since they are allowed limited off time.

Don't they shut down the cafe car during stops? That would provide extra breaks for them too, which is ok.

And I wouldn't argue any of what you said in the first paragraph. The issue here is that what Catblue is describing sounds like something that someone must go out of their way to even see, much less clean.

Now should the cleaning crews at the end points be looking for this? Yes.

Should the cafe attendant be looking for this? Probably not.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

NEC food service cars, Diner Lites, and I assume all other Amfleet and Horizon food service cars (Excluding the all-table Horizon "Dinette" cars) are called "Cafe", right on the side of them.

Generally, that is what many of us refer to all light-food service Amtrak provides.

 

[Rob_C]

NEC food service cars, Diner Lites, and I assume all other Amfleet and Horizon food service cars (Excluding the all-table Horizon "Dinette" cars) are called "Cafe", right on the side of them.
Generally, that is what many of us refer to all light-food service Amtrak provides.

And there is also the Cafe/Coach on the Pacific Surfliner, and the Cafe on the bottom level of the Superliner Snack/Coach. There must be more!

 

[GG-1]

And there is also the Cafe/Coach on the Pacific Surfliner, and the Cafe on the bottom level of the Superliner Snack/Coach. There must be more!

Aloha

My 7 year old Granddaughter was thrilled by the Idea of the Cafe Car, where she could order food to go back to her seat, What does she order ... Cup of Noodles.

 

[rrdude]

Overall point I think is this: Cars (cafe, snack bar whatEVER) that serve food, first and foremost need to be clean. NO it is not the LSA's duty to deep clean, or even reach behind seats where filth has been allowed to accumulate. But they sure as hell should be writing it up on the (forget the name of the form) form when the train reaches it's destination.

I got into a heated argument once with a mechanical super in the Chicago yards back in the 80's, cause I kept writing "Every GD little thing up." That guy said he had been waiting for me to be on one of "his trains" all summer.......and he lit into me for writing up lamps and bulbs that were out, doors that had missing screws, doors that would not operate (shocker!) toilets that would not flush, you name it. We were so animated the cleaning crew must have thought they were watching Jerry Springer!

I think I got the last word in when I asked him "how he would feel, if his grandmother was on the train and XYZ didn't work." At least he didn't say anything else. But it just seemed to me at the time that he didn't want to do the WORK that is involved when you operate something like a railcar for thousands and thousands of miles. Sorry, get another job then.

I cleaned up as much and as often as I could as an LSA, but I'm sure I missed stuff too.

But the PATTERN and HABIT of "clean as you go" (ha! I have that posted in my kids room, don't help much tho....) and simply trying to follow Ray Krocs values, would go a long way in keeping Amtrak a little cleaner, and safer too.

 

[p&sr]

My 7 year old Granddaughter was thrilled by... Cup of Noodles.

Obviously a young Lady of good taste. I order them too, whenever I need a tasty snack if it's not yet time for my next Train Hot Dog.

PS -- I never look under, behind, or inside my seat while eating, because I know my Noodles are not going to come in contact with anything objectionable that might be found there. If they do (eg by splashing free of my spoon and landing "off limits"), I simply don't eat them. End of issue.

 

[profwebs]

My 7 year old Granddaughter was thrilled by... Cup of Noodles.

Obviously a young Lady of good taste. I order them too, whenever I need a tasty snack if it's not yet time for my next Train Hot Dog.

PS -- I never look under, behind, or inside my seat while eating, because I know my Noodles are not going to come in contact with anything objectionable that might be found there. If they do (eg by splashing free of my spoon and landing "off limits"), I simply don't eat them. End of issue.

A kids hands, that they eat with, might come into contact with that germ filled gunk though. I'm not sure exactly where catblue is talking about, but it sounds like it is in plain sight. I have a picture of a ledge between the window and booth in my head?

 

[catblue]

I was not looking "under or inside my seat " either.

As I said in my first post I was sitting in a booth looking out the window and looked down and saw the area between the window and the back of the booth seat I was sitting in. This was a booth seat that the back faced the window. Again I am not talking about a "little" dirt, I am talking major pile up of dried up food and dirt.

Someone said that the cars are cleaned routinely and all I can say is this car could not of been cleaned in that area in a very very long time, months or much longer. Things don't get that dirty in a short period of time. It would take some effort to clean it and to do the job right.

Also I did not blame the attendant but thought it fell on the cleaning crew at the station or yard.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Trying to follow Ray Krocs values.

Selling low quality, adulterated, tasteless, nauseating, unhealthy crap at inflated prices? With a smiling singing clown and a half-hearted attempt at funding children's recuperation centers?

My god, if America ever stooped that low, I'd leave.

I was not looking "under or inside my seat " either.
As I said in my first post I was sitting in a booth looking out the window and looked down and saw the area between the window and the back of the booth seat I was sitting in. This was a booth seat that the back faced the window. Again I am not talking about a "little" dirt, I am talking major pile up of dried up food and dirt.

Someone said that the cars are cleaned routinely and all I can say is this car could not of been cleaned in that area in a very very long time, months or much longer. Things don't get that dirty in a short period of time. It would take some effort to clean it and to do the job right.

Also I did not blame the attendant but thought it fell on the cleaning crew at the station or yard.

Alright. Enough of this nonsense. Take your hands. All of you. Take your hands. Touch your desk. You have just touched germs. Millions of germs. You can't see them. But boy, are they there. Viruses. Bacteria. Fungus. Mold. Its all there for you to touch, right there on your very own desk.

When you clean them, with something like Lysol which kills 99% of all germs, 1 percent, the strongest and most dangerous, survive anyway. Each time we clean them, we make them stronger and stronger. But we do it anyway.

Now grab some pepper. Sniff it deeply. Let yourself sneeze all over your desk. You've just released more germs. Watch your desk. In about 5 minutes or so, you will notice all the moisture has evaporated. To the naked eye, it is "clean" again. But the germs are still there.

Now grab some dirt. Soil. Guess what? This soil, which you will now put on your floor, contains less germs than your "clean" desk. But you want to clean it. Why? It looks gross. Well, I agree. It looks gross. Lets clean that dirt up.

CatBlue, what you saw looked gross. I have no doubt about it. It probably felt gross. It probably smelled gross. And Amtrak shouldn't let their trains be gross. And we can scream about that all we want.

But, and this is important, GROSS IS NOT PHYSICALLY UNHEALTHY. I don't care how nice looking the seat your sitting in is. It contains germs. I don't care how much of lysol the restroom smells. It contains germs, the strong powerful germs lysol can't kill.

Lets stop bringing up health issues in a topic about how gross a food service car is. It is, like it or not, entirely immaterial.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Lets stop bringing up health issues in a topic about how gross a food service car is. It is, like it or not, entirely immaterial.

Well said GML, well said! Its entirely immaterial until somebody gets eColi.