Caltrain engineer overshooting a station

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When a train misplaces a train and must make a reverse move, you MUST contact the block operator for permission. You also have to have a qualified employee govern that movement from the rear car.

It is unfair to blame employees without fully knowing the situation. What if an extra list engineer is not quite familiar with the stops and realizes too late to platform the train safetly? Yes, it may not be right that the stop was missed, but I think placing the blame on engineers right away is just unfair.
 
cpamtfan said:
I think placing the blame on engineers right away is just unfair.
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Umm.. then who else is possibly to blame? The engineer is the only guy who has the control over where to stop the train, and if he/she did not do that duty, isn't he/she the only person to blame? Extra list or not, engineer of a train is expected to have 100% situational awareness when at the controls of the train, if he/she lapsed in that duty, he/she is to be blamed for it.
 
Texan Eagle said:
cpamtfan said:
I think placing the blame on engineers right away is just unfair.
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Umm.. then who else is possibly to blame? The engineer is the only guy who has the control over where to stop the train, and if he/she did not do that duty, isn't he/she the only person to blame? Extra list or not, engineer of a train is expected to have 100% situational awareness when at the controls of the train, if he/she lapsed in that duty, he/she is to be blamed for it.
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I gotta agree. Extra list or not, he (or she) should know what stops to make. All it takes is a timetable placed in front of the controls. Who else is to blame? Not the dispatcher. Not the conductor (although he could warn the engineer of upcoming stops, but that's not exactly his job).
 
cpamtfan said:
It is unfair to blame employees without fully knowing the situation. What if an extra list engineer is not quite familiar with the stops and realizes too late to platform the train safetly? Yes, it may not be right that the stop was missed, but I think placing the blame on engineers right away is just unfair.
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In order to operate any train in this country that runs on FRA governed tracks, which Caltrain does, both the conductor and the engineer must be qualified for that territory. "Qualified" means that they must know where they are at all times; they must be familiar with where defect detectors are; stations; land marks; etc. A conductor working the coaches must be able to look out the window basically at any time and know where his train is on that line.

So I'm sorry, but no, the engineer has to be familiar with where the stop is. And even if his memory fails him, he's still got the book to remind him.

All that said, I have to wonder if part of the issue here with all these missed stops is the fact that Caltrain runs 3 types of service on the same tracks. An engineer might start out his day working a baby bullet where he skips many of the stops only to work a semi-express the next time where he must make extra stops, but not all stops.

Thinking quickly, I know of no other commuter RR in the US that has such a service pattern. Many offer an express service, but they run express skipping a bunch of stops in row, before going local. It's not the hodge-podge of skip two, stop, skip three, stop, etc that Caltrian has.
 
My wording was not "clear" enough, my bad. The engineer must know his territory and if he doesn't, it's his fault for missing a stop, etc. I was more eluding to what Alan said. Some crews work may work a super local, then a limited stop express. The engineer must know this schedule, but sometimes even the most experienced engineers have to go to the book to check. The conductor is incharge of the train, and I would think he's announcing stops that the engineer should hear (not in a locomotive now). Where are the CalTrain conductors stationed? I'm not familiar with that equipment.
 
cpamtfan said:
My wording was not "clear" enough, my bad. The engineer must know his territory and if he doesn't, it's his fault for missing a stop, etc. I was more eluding to what Alan said. Some crews work may work a super local, then a limited stop express. The engineer must know this schedule, but sometimes even the most experienced engineers have to go to the book to check. The conductor is incharge of the train, and I would think he's announcing stops that the engineer should hear (not in a locomotive now). Where are the CalTrain conductors stationed? I'm not familiar with that equipment.
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They stand in the vestibules, announce the stations, and exit the trains at the stations to check for hazards. There are separate fare inspectors, who check tickets (no punch) or scan Clipper Cards (a multi agency fare card) to see if they've been properly checked in at a Caltrain station. The conductors can also check for tickets, but I think they typically don't.

I remember way back when the conductors and assistant conductors did everything, including selling tickets, punching prepaid tickets, and announcing stops. Now they've primarily gone to fare inspectors with some conductors.
 
This is getting funny. Another day, another overshoot. Today morning southbound Caltrain #322 overshot Redwood City by about a quarter mile and had to back up into the station!

No, I am not making up stories, check out Twitter stream with hashtag #Caltrain. Morning commute passengers are livid about the incident and resultant delays.
 
Its because transitamerica took over operations not too long ago ...

They don't seem to know the route yet...
 
GiantsFan said:
Its because transitamerica took over operations not too long ago ...

They don't seem to know the route yet...
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They also don't seem to know to read the "SPOT CAB" boards placed at the platforms for their convenience. Today morning I was on northbound Caltrain 231 sitting a little behind halfway point on the first car and when we stopped at San Carlos, the SPOT CAB board was right outside my window, meaning the engineer had stopped the train around 50-60 feet ahead of where he s expected to stop. No big deal since the train was still within platform limits, but these kind of gaffes on a regular basis is certainly not very professional.
 
cpamtfan said:
That's just nitpicking now.
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Yes, I said it is no big deal, and it may be just me and my OCD but I see a trained engineer not being able to spot the train at the SPOT board as kinda unprofessional.

Maybe it is because I used to commute daily for six years on a commuter train system in a foreign country where the engineers would stop every single train (and there were over a thousand trains per day, compared to Caltrain's 86 per day) exactly at the SPOT sign, so much that daily commuters would mark their standing spots knowing exactly where each door would come when the train stops. And no, I am not talking about automated subway systems, I am talking about a conventional rail controlled manually by the engineer.
 

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