Can AC outlets in bedrooms handle 500 watts? (oven/coffeemaker/etc)

[BCL]

I have often used my travel kettle in the roomette, just can't get a decent cup of tea without boiling water...

It is rated at around 800watts. Although designed to use our U.K. 240v it will work on US voltages too, just takes twice as long to boil!

(Also used a hotel kettle to boil eggs in India, but that is another story!)

I'm an electrical engineer, although I don't necessarily think of things in terms of voltages since my work exists in a world of 1s and 0s. However, going back to the basics, a travel kettle's heating unit is really just a fixed resistance. You can get more power out of it by reducing the resistance. You certainly want to scale up the resistance properly so that it doesn't burn to a crisp or blow a breaker/fuse. For a higher fixed voltage:

With V=voltage, I=current, and P=power

V = I/R and P = VxI. So I = V/R and P = VxI = VxV/R = V^2/R.

So the power produced is exponential with regard to the voltage. Typical US voltage is 110-120V AC, although Amtrak rates theirs at 120 V. European voltages are 220-240V AC.

Theoretically it should take 4 times longer since it's only producing a quart of the power, although there's also issues with efficiency with higher voltage.

 

[willem]

With V=voltage, I=current, and P=power

V = I/R and P = VxI. So I = V/R and P = VxI = VxV/R = V^2/R.

So the power produced is exponential with regard to the voltage.

In your formula, power is proportional to the square of the voltage. That is not exponential. Exponential would have the variable (voltage) in the exponent, for example, P = 2^V/R.

 

[jis]

Right you are, at least using the most common interpretation of "exponential" in computational complexity.

 

[dlagrua]

I have often used my travel kettle in the roomette, just can't get a decent cup of tea without boiling water...

It is rated at around 800watts. Although designed to use our U.K. 240v it will work on US voltages too, just takes twice as long to boil!

(Also used a hotel kettle to boil eggs in India, but that is another story!)

Bon Appetite

Ed.

I sure wish hot water (hot enough to brew tea, not just tap water) was available in the sleeping cars.

Here is the practical solution. I enjoy espresso and not regular coffee. An acceptable replacement is the Starbucks VIA Instant espresso. We bring a few envelopes of it, Truvia sweetener and a few hot cups (that are usually available onboard). We use the bottled water in the sleeper, ( although tap water works fine) and boil it directly in the cup with a small plug- in immersion heater. Takes only a couple of minutes and it's done. Fast, easy, compact, light and effective.

 

[BCL]

With V=voltage, I=current, and P=power

V = I/R and P = VxI. So I = V/R and P = VxI = VxV/R = V^2/R.

So the power produced is exponential with regard to the voltage.

In your formula, power is proportional to the square of the voltage. That is not exponential. Exponential would have the variable (voltage) in the exponent, for example, P = 2^V/R.

I hate math. In any case, I got Ohm's Law wrong, which is V = IR. However, what I was getting at is that the amount of power (and thus heat) won't scale linearly with the voltage. On the other hand it would also be a lot less likely to blow a breaker.
There may be other effects that don't scale directly with the voltage. I have backpacking stoves, and some don't believe that they're less efficient in converting fuel to heating boiling water at higher fuel rates. If you turn it on full blast, it will leak heat out the sides and includes other secondary effects. The most efficient system is from JetBoil, which uses a system where the flame is contained and insulated. I don't suppose something like that would be allowed on Amtrak. I have heard of people using gas stoves to cook on trains in India or South America.

 

[tricia]

I have often used my travel kettle in the roomette, just can't get a decent cup of tea without boiling water...

It is rated at around 800watts. Although designed to use our U.K. 240v it will work on US voltages too, just takes twice as long to boil!

(Also used a hotel kettle to boil eggs in India, but that is another story!)

Bon Appetite

Ed.

I sure wish hot water (hot enough to brew tea, not just tap water) was available in the sleeping cars.

Here is the practical solution. I enjoy espresso and not regular coffee. An acceptable replacement is the Starbucks VIA Instant espresso. We bring a few envelopes of it, Truvia sweetener and a few hot cups (that are usually available onboard). We use the bottled water in the sleeper, ( although tap water works fine) and boil it directly in the cup with a small plug- in immersion heater. Takes only a couple of minutes and it's done. Fast, easy, compact, light and effective.

I also use an immersion heater, for tea. And worry about tripping circuit breakers every time I do it.

 

[WabashMike]

Someone going on the chicken bone express? I knew cutting out diner cars would be a problem!

Seriously though I would pack bologna and loaf of bread first before I'd carry that AND the requisite food. And I had bologna for lunch for 10 years of school before I could drive!

 

[BCL]

I have often used my travel kettle in the roomette, just can't get a decent cup of tea without boiling water...

It is rated at around 800watts. Although designed to use our U.K. 240v it will work on US voltages too, just takes twice as long to boil!

(Also used a hotel kettle to boil eggs in India, but that is another story!)

Bon Appetite

Ed.

I sure wish hot water (hot enough to brew tea, not just tap water) was available in the sleeping cars.

Here is the practical solution. I enjoy espresso and not regular coffee. An acceptable replacement is the Starbucks VIA Instant espresso. We bring a few envelopes of it, Truvia sweetener and a few hot cups (that are usually available onboard). We use the bottled water in the sleeper, ( although tap water works fine) and boil it directly in the cup with a small plug- in immersion heater. Takes only a couple of minutes and it's done. Fast, easy, compact, light and effective.

I also use an immersion heater, for tea. And worry about tripping circuit breakers every time I do it.

Shouldn't use more than 250 W. Not much risk of tripping a breaker.

The big problem is where to put it when done and waiting for it to cool.

 

[Cina]

I haven't looked very closely at the coffee pots in the sleepers. Are they hooked up to a water line, or does the SCA have to add water to it to make coffee? If the former, it's plausible they could replace the current coffee pots with ones that also have a hot-water spigot (as plausible as ANYTHING changing on Amtrak is.) That would solve so many problems. I'd bring my french press in a hot second.

 

[MARC Rider]

The outlet in our bedroom was labeled something to the effect of razors only. Exactly how many amps/watts that means...???

The original electric shaver from 1932 had a 1/90th horsepower motor, which translates into just less than 10 watts. So, I would guess that your bedroom outlet could handle nominally 50 watts, but probably not much more. You MIGHT be able to use your laptop computer charger on such an outlet, which might draw as much as 90 watts of electricity.

"Might" be able to use a laptop? Amfleet coaches have an outlet at all of the 80 odd seats. And laptops are one of the most common uses for those outlets.

 

[BCL]

The original electric shaver from 1932 had a 1/90th horsepower motor, which translates into just less than 10 watts. So, I would guess that your bedroom outlet could handle nominally 50 watts, but probably not much more. You MIGHT be able to use your laptop computer charger on such an outlet, which might draw as much as 90 watts of electricity.

The output of a motor may not line up with the actual consumption. A lot of electric razors use a power adapter, so even then efficiency may be a factor.

Still - the power adapter for my Norelco razor says 9 watts.

The big issue isn't going to be how much an individual outlet uses, but how much combined use among all outlets on the same breaker. An individual outlet can easily handle a few hundred watts, but the issue would be how many are using that much at the same time.

Strange thing though - last time I rode long distance, the guy sitting next to me forgot his power adapter and USB cable. I tried tracking him down, but he was ahead of me. I just left it there since I figured it was a futile effort.

 

[PVD]

The receptacles themselves are (almost) never the issue, they are going to be either 15 A or 20 A rated, either conventional or GFCI. As BCL points out, it's what they are connected to that matters. I'd be curious to know how the receptacles are distributed across the available circuits, as in how many rooms on a breaker (assuming 20A breakers). Almost all hotels have hair dryers now, more travelers are carrying smaller travel dryers than the big ones you always saw years ago. 2 people using the old style full power dryers could blow a breaker easily. but at 30-90watts for a typical tablet through full size laptop power supply you won't see too many problems from small electronics. Lots of 10-20 watt little bricks. Code limits numbers of receptacles on a single circuit in commercial apps, residential gets a free ride. Not sure how railcars fit in, Amtrak probably not directly covered, but would probably have voluntary compliance to standards via FRA regs. I'm sure someone out there can expand on that.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Probably a bit off topic here (shocking) - some 25 years ago my parents were in China in some sort of official "guesthouse" - a hotel type building and screwed in a lightbulb that was missing in a table lamp and blew the entire wing of the building. So I'm sure Amtrak is far safer than that...

 

[BCL]

Probably a bit off topic here (shocking) - some 25 years ago my parents were in China in some sort of official "guesthouse" - a hotel type building and screwed in a lightbulb that was missing in a table lamp and blew the entire wing of the building. So I'm sure Amtrak is far safer than that...

It's kind of different there. They use 220 V outlets, but use outlets with two different types of receptacles. One of them will accept a US 2-blade plug, but it would need to be a multi-voltage device or it might get fried.

I have heard of some interesting stories about Chinese visitors to the US. While I was staying at Yellowstone, someone relayed the story of a Chinese tour group (might have been from Taiwan?) where someone tried plugging in an electric rice cooker and took out all the power to the cabins. I've stayed in such places, and each cabin typically had something like a 25W light bulb in a table lamp and no other electric devices.

 

[PVD]

Outside of North America, most of the rest of the rest of the world uses ungrounded systems, as well as different voltages and frequency, which is a whole different discussion, not for this board.

 

[BCL]

Still, some foreign visitors riding Amtrak might want to use their electronics on board. There may be an issue with the right plug or the need for a passive adapter, but for the most part, portable electronics typically have switching power supplies that can handle any AC voltage from 100 to 240 as well as anything from 50-60 Hz. I remember my wife forgot her adapter at a hotel in Asia. We found a store that had a replacement cheap. It was a two bladed, ungrounded plug that fit in US two/three prong outlets. About the only difference was that the blades didn't have the holes typical in the blades of US plugs.

I've even seen some adapters with labels that indicate they will work on 100-250V AC or DC.

 

[PVD]

Yes, way more common than it used to be with companies not wanting to make too many different versions of things. Used to see slide switches for 50-60 hz all the time, now electronically sensed is more common. Even in the US, ballasts for fluorescent lighting are now widely available in multi voltage versions (120/277). Cost a tad more to buy, but you can make that up with reduced inventory and the time saved on a repair/replace job when you know you have the right one and don't have to go get the "other one"

 

[BCL]

Well - I've installed a few ballasts in my day. The new ones use digital electronics and are mostly empty boxes to fit a traditional "form factor". The original ones were maybe five times heavier. Yeah - way OT I know.

 

[BCL]

Yes, way more common than it used to be with companies not wanting to make too many different versions of things. Used to see slide switches for 50-60 hz all the time, now electronically sensed is more common. Even in the US, ballasts for fluorescent lighting are now widely available in multi voltage versions (120/277). Cost a tad more to buy, but you can make that up with reduced inventory and the time saved on a repair/replace job when you know you have the right one and don't have to go get the "other one"

They still need to meet different regulatory standards. Also, I don't think the folding style really lends itself to anything but a two blade plug like in the US. I think it's mostly that the switching power supplies are lighter and cheaper to make than the older coiled transformers. I have a few of those, and they're like bricks. The biggest issue with switching adapters is that many buzz. The switching supplies can adjust while coils can't.

 

[PVD]

plus the newer ballasts are more efficient, don't have PCBs like some old magnetics, and many of the new ones are dimmable , for compatibility with energy mgt/lighting control systems.....