Capitol Ltd service suspended (8/2/17) CSX Derailment in PA; restored

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For the record, a Superliner train could operate on the NS all the way east to Philadelphia. The main issue is high-level platforms at Harrisburg, Elizabethtown, Lancaster, and Paoli, but I believe Philadelphia has a low-level platform somewhere in the station. During the Pope's visit to Philadelphia, a few Superliner sleepers were brought in this way to provide extra hotel space. Theoretically, thru-cars could even be operated on Pennsylvanian from the CL as far east as Philadelphia or even Newark if there was a place to store the cars there. A transition sleeper would be needed so passengers could exit the train at the stations from Harrisburg east and the train could not operate to New York, but in the event that Superliners are available and Amfleets are not this would greatly improve access to Chicago for Pennsylvania. New York and New Jersey could also be accessed simply by changing cars within the train. All of this relies of course on the switch work being done in Pittsburgh.
 
It would blow my mind if a Superliner could get through Newark. I think the building could accommodate it if you raised the wires, but short of that...
 
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
For the record, a Superliner train could operate on the NS all the way east to Philadelphia. The main issue is high-level platforms at Harrisburg, Elizabethtown, Lancaster, and Paoli, but I believe Philadelphia has a low-level platform somewhere in the station. During the Pope's visit to Philadelphia, a few Superliner sleepers were brought in this way to provide extra hotel space. Theoretically, thru-cars could even be operated on Pennsylvanian from the CL as far east as Philadelphia or even Newark if there was a place to store the cars there. A transition sleeper would be needed so passengers could exit the train at the stations from Harrisburg east and the train could not operate to New York, but in the event that Superliners are available and Amfleets are not this would greatly improve access to Chicago for Pennsylvania. New York and New Jersey could also be accessed simply by changing cars within the train. All of this relies of course on the switch work being done in Pittsburgh.
Click to expand...
A few amplifications:

1) Superliners can get to the Philly coach yard okay, but getting into the station, while physically possible, requires de-energizing the catenary. Also, I believe all the regular platforms at PHL (tracks 1-10) are high level.

2) The main Harrisburg high-level platform has a ramp down to a low-level section at the north end.

3) The CL could go through Harrisburg and down the Port Road, but would have to terminate in Baltimore, as the tunnel south of the station is too small. (Amtrak actually checked this when the y converted the CL to Superliners.)

Which leads to a question: does anyone know if the Howard Street tunnel would accommodate Superliners? Not that CSX would be willing to allow it anyway, but I think they send TOFC that way and I don't think Superliners are much bigger...
 
jis said:
Are you sure about Newark? Or are you just winging it?
Click to expand...
No, I am not 100% sure. The storage space alone would likely not be feasible, which is why the post is built around terminating the train at Philadelphia. The Newark station itself may be an issue, but I have always heard that tunnels are the reason for the height restrictions rather than the catenary, and there are no tunnels of between Philadelphia and Newark. I also don't think there are any covered stations other than Philadelphia and Newark themselves.
RPC said:
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
For the record, a Superliner train could operate on the NS all the way east to Philadelphia. The main issue is high-level platforms at Harrisburg, Elizabethtown, Lancaster, and Paoli, but I believe Philadelphia has a low-level platform somewhere in the station. During the Pope's visit to Philadelphia, a few Superliner sleepers were brought in this way to provide extra hotel space. Theoretically, thru-cars could even be operated on Pennsylvanian from the CL as far east as Philadelphia or even Newark if there was a place to store the cars there. A transition sleeper would be needed so passengers could exit the train at the stations from Harrisburg east and the train could not operate to New York, but in the event that Superliners are available and Amfleets are not this would greatly improve access to Chicago for Pennsylvania. New York and New Jersey could also be accessed simply by changing cars within the train. All of this relies of course on the switch work being done in Pittsburgh.
Click to expand...
A few amplifications:1) Superliners can get to the Philly coach yard okay, but getting into the station, while physically possible, requires de-energizing the catenary. Also, I believe all the regular platforms at PHL (tracks 1-10) are high level.

2) The main Harrisburg high-level platform has a ramp down to a low-level section at the north end.

3) The CL could go through Harrisburg and down the Port Road, but would have to terminate in Baltimore, as the tunnel south of the station is too small. (Amtrak actually checked this when the y converted the CL to Superliners.)

Which leads to a question: does anyone know if the Howard Street tunnel would accommodate Superliners? Not that CSX would be willing to allow it anyway, but I think they send TOFC that way and I don't think Superliners are much bigger...
Click to expand...
You are correct about Harrisburg.
Is the catenary physically lower in Philadelphia than Washington so that it presents a safety issue? Do you know how the cars were operated during the Pope's visit? I have never personally seen a low-level platform at Philadelphia, but how else could the cars have been boarded? Is it possible there is a normally unused track with a low-level platform? After all, the lower level of the station has more tracks than are necessary as is so it makes sense some may not be used.
 
During National Train day in Washington a few years ago,( my memory isn't what it used to be!) several AUers had a Mini-Gathering @ Union Station.

Among the equipment on display for visitors to board was a Superliner Sleeper, but it was parked on a High Level Platform and a set of steps was used to board/detrain through the Low Level door and the friendly attendant helped those that needed assistance.

I don't really know why this was done, other than the other equipment in that area included an Acela set and several PVs which are all are perfect for High Level Platforms. (really liked Hickory Creek!)

I've also seen Superliners sitting in 30th Street Station but never Baltimore or Newark!
 
It’s not really possible to board a Superliner from a high platform without being a gymnast.

(Matt Johnson photo)

c4f9ce3771586d9adbe606d527dece99.jpg


While the tunnels certainly are an obstacle, there are likely a great many bridges and spots of lower catenary that would cause a problem. Since it isn’t an operationally realistic scenario, it’s not really worth it to lay out each and every obstruction.
 
RPC said:
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
For the record, a Superliner train could operate on the NS all the way east to Philadelphia. The main issue is high-level platforms at Harrisburg, Elizabethtown, Lancaster, and Paoli, but I believe Philadelphia has a low-level platform somewhere in the station. During the Pope's visit to Philadelphia, a few Superliner sleepers were brought in this way to provide extra hotel space. Theoretically, thru-cars could even be operated on Pennsylvanian from the CL as far east as Philadelphia or even Newark if there was a place to store the cars there. A transition sleeper would be needed so passengers could exit the train at the stations from Harrisburg east and the train could not operate to New York, but in the event that Superliners are available and Amfleets are not this would greatly improve access to Chicago for Pennsylvania. New York and New Jersey could also be accessed simply by changing cars within the train. All of this relies of course on the switch work being done in Pittsburgh.
Click to expand...
A few amplifications:1) Superliners can get to the Philly coach yard okay, but getting into the station, while physically possible, requires de-energizing the catenary. Also, I believe all the regular platforms at PHL (tracks 1-10) are high level.

2) The main Harrisburg high-level platform has a ramp down to a low-level section at the north end.

3) The CL could go through Harrisburg and down the Port Road, but would have to terminate in Baltimore, as the tunnel south of the station is too small. (Amtrak actually checked this when the y converted the CL to Superliners.)

Which leads to a question: does anyone know if the Howard Street tunnel would accommodate Superliners? Not that CSX would be willing to allow it anyway, but I think they send TOFC that way and I don't think Superliners are much bigger...
Click to expand...
It's not possible to go from the port road to CSX that easily. Without some weird back up moves in Baltimore city on industrial trackage.
 
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
jis said:
Are you sure about Newark? Or are you just winging it?
Click to expand...
No, I am not 100% sure. The storage space alone would likely not be feasible, which is why the post is built around terminating the train at Philadelphia. The Newark station itself may be an issue, but I have always heard that tunnels are the reason for the height restrictions rather than the catenary, and there are no tunnels of between Philadelphia and Newark. I also don't think there are any covered stations other than Philadelphia and Newark themselves.
RPC said:
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
For the record, a Superliner train could operate on the NS all the way east to Philadelphia. <snip/>
Click to expand...
A few amplifications:1) Superliners can get to the Philly coach yard okay, but getting into the station, while physically possible, requires de-energizing the catenary. Also, I believe all the regular platforms at PHL (tracks 1-10) are high level.

2) The main Harrisburg high-level platform has a ramp down to a low-level section at the north end.

<snip/>
Click to expand...
You are correct about Harrisburg.
Is the catenary physically lower in Philadelphia than Washington so that it presents a safety issue? Do you know how the cars were operated during the Pope's visit? I have never personally seen a low-level platform at Philadelphia, but how else could the cars have been boarded? Is it possible there is a normally unused track with a low-level platform? After all, the lower level of the station has more tracks than are necessary as is so it makes sense some may not be used.
Click to expand...
During the Pope's visit the Superliners were parked in the coach yard and boarded from the ground. (They were provided for Amtrak employees only.)
 
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
jis said:
Are you sure about Newark? Or are you just winging it?
Click to expand...
No, I am not 100% sure. The storage space alone would likely not be feasible, which is why the post is built around terminating the train at Philadelphia. The Newark station itself may be an issue, but I have always heard that tunnels are the reason for the height restrictions rather than the catenary, and there are no tunnels of between Philadelphia and Newark. I also don't think there are any covered stations other than Philadelphia and Newark themselves.
Click to expand...
For the record there are many places other than tunnels on the NEC between Philly and Newark where civil height restrictions would prevent a Superliner from getting through.

Heck I am not even sure that a Superliner could make it through under the disused Camp Kilmer overpass near Edison NJ. Another bad one that comes to mind is the Lehigh Valley overpass near CP Hunter. I am sure there are several others, not to mention the entire Newark Penn Station structure at various places within it specially tracks 2 and 3. And there are very few low level platforms if any at all on the NJ segment of the NEC. The SEPTA segment have several that are being converted to high level as quickly as SEPTA can find the funds.

In short, it will take quite a bit of money before that segment of NEC can be cleared for Superliners, and it will also require conversion of stations to low level platform, which ain't gonna happen.
 
jis said:
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
jis said:
Are you sure about Newark? Or are you just winging it?
Click to expand...
No, I am not 100% sure. The storage space alone would likely not be feasible, which is why the post is built around terminating the train at Philadelphia. The Newark station itself may be an issue, but I have always heard that tunnels are the reason for the height restrictions rather than the catenary, and there are no tunnels of between Philadelphia and Newark. I also don't think there are any covered stations other than Philadelphia and Newark themselves.
Click to expand...
For the record there are many places other than tunnels on the NEC between Philly and Newark where civil height restrictions would prevent a Superliner from getting through.
Heck I am not even sure that a Superliner could make it through under the disused Camp Kilmer overpass near Edison NJ. Another bad one that comes to mind is the Lehigh Valley overpass near CP Hunter. I am sure there are several others, not to mention the entire Newark Penn Station structure at various places within it specially tracks 2 and 3. And there are very few low level platforms if any at all on the NJ segment of the NEC. The SEPTA segment have several that are being converted to high level as quickly as SEPTA can find the funds.

In short, it will take quite a bit of money before that segment of NEC can be cleared for Superliners, and it will also require conversion of stations to low level platform, which ain't gonna happen.
Click to expand...
Okay, so it does not seem to be reasonable to run Superliners to Newark. There still does not seem to be a reason preventing Superliners run to Philadelphia unless the catenary is too low. The lack of low-level platforms is a slight challenge, but passengers could walk through the Transition Sleeper to an Amfleet to board/detrain. Not all doors open at every station as it is anyway.
 
I would suggest you go to the Amtrak web site and look up the Capitol Pennsylvanian PIP. It is not like Amtrak has a bunch of free Superliners floating around. If anything the Superliner availability is tighter than availability of single level cars that would be needed to run the through cars from the Pennsy to the Cap. I am afraid you are barking up the wrong tree.
 
Sorry to hijack this string, but as we are talking about the Capitol Limited I am curious about an issue I see from time to time and there may be knowledge here to enlighten me. I have noticed a number of times that 29 leaves WUS on time, yet leaves Rockville significantly late or loses time soon thereafter. I don't know that this is routine but has happened enough to make me notice. Any insight?
 
jis said:
Which of course makes it an ideal thing to discuss here spanning 1500 pages. the more absurd the idea the better :p
Click to expand...
When the B&O ran strata-domes on the Columbian, Capitol Limited, and Shenandoah in the 1950's and 60's, passengers were obliged to vacate the domes before entering any of the Washington D.C. station throat tracks, due to the catenary.

The clearance wasn't THAT close, but management did not want to risk a wire failing onto the dome with passengers IN the dome.

The conductors were diligent -- I got chased out several times from the Columbian's dome.
 

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