CCC and Full Diner

[Texan Eagle]

In many threads I keep reading about a certain train having a CCC and some train having a "full diner". What exactly is the difference between the two?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

CCC's have lounge-ish seating on one side of the car, which I guess adds more SSL space. If you didn't know, it stands for Cross Country Cafe. The CCC is generally regarded as lower quality due to its lower seating capacity, and the fact that the food is not as good (from what I've heard). This is because the CCC as a whole requires one less crew member, and the smaller diner staff relies more on convection ovens and pre-cooked meals than regular diners would.

 

[ReidTYK]

Wasn't the CCC supposed to replace both the diner and the SSL? IIRC, I read something about it on Wikipedia.

 

[Acela150]

CCC is the Superliner version of a Diner-Lite IIRC. Correct me If I'm wrong, and a Full Diner is a Full Service Diner.

 

[AlanB]

The CCC was intended to allow Amtrak to save money by combining the functions of the dining car & the cafe car into one car. So it has an area from which to sell cafe stuff, plus 4 tables at which to eat said things at. Round the cafe area and you enter the diner section of the car.

Early on the CCC did provide mainly items warmed in convection ovens, but that has since changed and basically things are the same as with a full diner. And to my knowledge, except if a car is bad ordered, the cafe section now remains unused on all trains. For a while however, both the Texas Eagle and the City of New Orleans used the cafe section and the Sightseer Lounge was either totally gone, or unstaffed.

 

[rrdude]

Actually a CCC configuration makes sense on certain trains, that don't run with a SSL. As long as the food and service on the diner end were "full service", making one end the "cafe" is fine, except you lose the windows wrapping up towards the roof. (obviously only works when sleeper load is lower, or only sleeper)

What Amtrak should consider when/if another order for bi-levels goes out, is to have all the non-rev cars have that same type of wrap around windows.

People take trains to see country, something they completely missed with the Amcans, but got comletely correct with the Acelas.

 

[MrFSS]

Here are a few pictures from the CONO.

Very good crab cake dinner the first evening, even before we left the station.

It isn't the same as a SSL type car window wise.

 

[Mackensen]

Wasn't the CCC supposed to replace both the diner and the SSL? IIRC, I read something about it on Wikipedia.

That was the idea; yes. See here for an early review on NARP's blog. I remember encountering a diner with that configuration on the Capitol Limited two years ago but I recall it being a full-service diner, just with the different seating arrangement. I just looked at the City of New Orleans menu on Amtrak's website and it looks normal, although the timetable still mentions the Cross-Country Cafe and says "casual service offering complete meals."

Well, I'm on the CONO tonight so I'll see what's up and report back. Should be quite a change from my dining experience late last month on the 8400 (both directions, no less).

 

[rrdude]

Here are a few pictures from the CONO.

Very good crab cake dinner the first evening, even before we left the station.

It isn't the same as a SSL type car window wise.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr, the dreaded "Mafia Seats"

Great for a lounge, but they Suck with a CAPITAL "S" for dining. Especially when they try and squeeze four travelers together! Ugh.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

The CCC's are being "quietly" reconfigured to conventional "4-top" seating on the Diner side, even though those tables still seem a bit tighter than regular Diner tables. I've hoisted many a fork in the CCC and have never noticed any difference in the quality of food versus the conventional Diner.

 

[dlagrua]

On a trip returning from Chicago in 2010 on the Capitol Limited we had the pleasure of dining in a CCC car. That was just a few months before the dining car returned. The seating was limited and the diner crew had trouble keeping up with the demand such to the point that dinner orders were taken at Union Station 30 minutes before departure and were served just as we pulled out of the station. The food quality was acceptable but the shrimp scampi that I ordered tasted more like shrimp creole. My wifes steak was grilled well and she enjoyed it. The CCC like the Superliner diners has a kitchen on the lower level but fewer seats and a smaller kitchen staff.

In comparing it to the food on our trip this past June the quality of food on the Crecents menu is better. The chef on the Crescent really cooked up an excellent meal and the dinner special out of New Orleans that day was Crawfish Etoufee (which tasted fresh prepared) and was surprisingly good.

I believe that all CCC's have been taken out of LD service or they may now be cafe cars. Its a fitting end to a bad idea.

 

[nolatron]

Grrrrrrrrrrrr, the dreaded "Mafia Seats"
Great for a lounge, but they Suck with a CAPITAL "S" for dining. Especially when they try and squeeze four travelers together! Ugh.

Oh god. I couldn't agree more.

Ride home from Chicago last year I got sandwiched between two people. Quite an uncomfortable dinner. I need my happy space/elbow room. Those tables get pretty small too once you get 3 people's worth of plates on them.

 

[fairviewroad]

Unfortunately my only encounter with a CCC was when it was used as a substitute for the Pacific Parlour Car on the Coast Starlight.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Ok, among the Superliner trains, I have only ridden Texas Eagle in Sept 2011 and Southwest Chief in Nov 2011. Can someone tell off-hand if the thing I saw on both those trains was likely to be a full-diner or CCC? I don't recollect seeing anything different in the two trains, and definitely haven't seen those usually arranged seating someone posted above.

Is this full-diner or CCC? This was what I had on SWC-

 

[MrFSS]

Ok, among the Superliner trains, I have only ridden Texas Eagle in Sept 2011 and Southwest Chief in Nov 2011. Can someone tell off-hand if the thing I saw on both those trains was likely to be a full-diner or CCC? I don't recollect seeing anything different in the two trains, and definitely haven't seen those usually arranged seating someone posted above.

Is this full-diner or CCC? This was what I had on SWC-

Full Dinner

 

[rtyler14]

Do they use a CCC or regular diner on the Texas Eagle

 

[Bob Dylan]

Do they use a CCC or regular diner on the Texas Eagle

The Eagle and the CONO (run through equipment) are the only LD Trains that regularly have a CCC for the Diner! CCCs are also used as substitutes for Bad Ordered Sightseer Lounges and Pacific Parlor Cars on the CS route! The Eagle consist I rode this weekend to/from DFW had been rehabbed in BeechGrove and only had the Mafia Seats in the "Lounge" end of the car, the "Diner" part had all 4 place tables which is much better in most peoples opinions!!! :wub:

 

[tonys96]

All of the Eagle's I have been on had the CCC.

 

[TimePeace]

On a trip returning from Chicago in 2010 on the Capitol Limited we had the pleasure of dining in a CCC car. That was just a few months before the dining car returned. The seating was limited and the diner crew had trouble keeping up with the demand such to the point that dinner orders were taken at Union Station 30 minutes before departure and were served just as we pulled out of the station. The food quality was acceptable but the shrimp scampi that I ordered tasted more like shrimp creole. My wifes steak was grilled well and she enjoyed it. The CCC like the Superliner diners has a kitchen on the lower level but fewer seats and a smaller kitchen staff.

In comparing it to the food on our trip this past June the quality of food on the Crecents menu is better. The chef on the Crescent really cooked up an excellent meal and the dinner special out of New Orleans that day was Crawfish Etoufee (which tasted fresh prepared) and was surprisingly good.

I believe that all CCC's have been taken out of LD service or they may now be cafe cars. Its a fitting end to a bad idea.

I have eaten many meals on Amtrak, and while I am a "discerning eater", I have only been really disappointed in one dish, one time: the shrimp scampi. My son and I both ordered it and agreed it was awful.

Live and learn, however.

 

[The Chief]

Grrrrrrrrrrrr, the dreaded "Mafia Seats"

Great for a lounge, but they Suck with a CAPITAL "S" for dining. Especially when they try and squeeze four travelers together! Ugh.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Funny line about the mob seats, dude.

I've had to sit on the "aisle seat" of the booth as the solo with three other adults. I'm medium-build and my keester still hung over the edge through dinner in East Texas aboard the Eagle. I did have a nice view of the aisle, though. That way I could keep an eye out for Michael Corleone returning from the restroom.

Like jimhudson (probably), I, too, recall when the Eagle used to have a full diner, Texan Eagle, like you enjoyed on the SWC and all* the other LD trains. CCC quality of food is at least one grade below full diner. Glad to hear the refurb reconfig on CCC dining seating is happening.

CCC SuCCCks!

* except run-through CONO

 

[Mackensen]

I'm now safely off the CONO (excellent run, we were in to NOLA an hour early). The seating was reconfigured to standard diner-style, 2 x 2. Only the diner half of the car was in use and we had a standard Sightseer Lounge as well. I thought the food was just fine, although since we were southbound dinner was off the express menu. I didn't notice any difference in quality.

Getting slightly off-topic, I get why Amtrak wanted to do something different. The CONO really empties out at Memphis. My friend and I counted about 60 coach passengers around lunchtime on a train with three coaches. Those coaches were mostly full leaving Chicago. I suspect the reason Amtrak doesn't drop cars at Memphis is that it would interfere with turning the equipment with the Texas Eagle.

 

[AlanB]

I suspect the reason Amtrak doesn't drop cars at Memphis is that it would interfere with turning the equipment with the Texas Eagle.

It also adds to the run time as you've got to play with switching now; adds to the costs since you now need a switching crew, a cleaning crew, and a crew base for the crew for those cars; you've got to setup inventory to handle the fact that not all cars go through, think another train number; and it's an annoyance to the passengers.

It's cheaper and easier to just run the car empty for the miles between New Orleans & Memphis.

 

[PacificStarlight]

:angry2:I would hate to have the CCC run as a PPC when Im on it in april!