City of New Orleans Train

[ThayerATM]

We're taking Train 59 (CONO) south in November, and Train 58 (CONO) back north. I've read several accounts of what Amtrak "SHOULD" do, and several accounts of what Amtrak "MIGHT" do. I need some concrete answers on what Amtrak "IS" doing on the City Of New Orleans. What can I expect? BTW, we have sleepers both ways.

For instance --- is the train made up of one engine, (OK, two, but never mind that) one baggage car, and a bunch of sleepers and coaches, with only one CCC car? Are my wife and I going to be limited to enjoying the trip in only a crowded CCC car and our bedroom? Is there any other way of watching the landscape go by?

 

[Larry H.]

We ride the City quite often.. Yes your going to be treated to one of Amtrak's tiny trains.. Depending on what equipment and what load they have going I would say it will be one sleeper, no baggage, no lounge and a CCC diner. I totally agree that doesn't leave one anywhere to go and enjoy the trip other than your rooms. That train used to come through here with 11 to 13 cars depending on the time of year, now its usually about 5. I think I am right on no baggage car?

On, the food.. It isn't too bad, just not the selection you would get on some other trains unless again they have modified that. The crew in the diner which consist of one server has usually been good even with the amount of people they have had to serve.

 

[GregL]

We're taking Train 59 (CONO) south in November, and Train 58 (CONO) back north. I've read several accounts of what Amtrak "SHOULD" do, and several accounts of what Amtrak "MIGHT" do. I need some concrete answers on what Amtrak "IS" doing on the City Of New Orleans. What can I expect? BTW, we have sleepers both ways.
For instance --- is the train made up of one engine, (OK, two, but never mind that) one baggage car, and a bunch of sleepers and coaches, with only one CCC car? Are my wife and I going to be limited to enjoying the trip in only a crowded CCC car and our bedroom? Is there any other way of watching the landscape go by?

My wife and I did the same trip in May '08. I believe there was one engine, no baggage, two sleepers, one CCC car, and 2-3 coaches. You are right, the CCC car is crowded. The end of the car that was the ''lounge'' was always busy. On the diner end, the crew really didn't want passengers using it, even at non-meal times. Finally we asked if we could use one of the tables, and they reluctantly said okay. We had something to drink, cleaned up our mess, and left a tip.

In my opinion Amtrak made a huge mistake, getting rid of the Sightseer lounges, but that's another story.

The trains were mostly on time, and we had a good time and want to go to NO again, as we didn't allow enough time there.

Have fun!

GregL

 

[ThayerATM]

We're taking Train 59 (CONO) south in November, and Train 58 (CONO) back north. I've read several accounts of what Amtrak "SHOULD" do, and several accounts of what Amtrak "MIGHT" do. I need some concrete answers on what Amtrak "IS" doing on the City Of New Orleans. What can I expect? BTW, we have sleepers both ways.
For instance --- is the train made up of one engine, (OK, two, but never mind that) one baggage car, and a bunch of sleepers and coaches, with only one CCC car? Are my wife and I going to be limited to enjoying the trip in only a crowded CCC car and our bedroom? Is there any other way of watching the landscape go by?

My wife and I did the same trip in May '08. I believe there was one engine, no baggage, two sleepers, one CCC car, and 2-3 coaches. You are right, the CCC car is crowded. The end of the car that was the ''lounge'' was always busy. On the diner end, the crew really didn't want passengers using it, even at non-meal times. Finally we asked if we could use one of the tables, and they reluctantly said okay. We had something to drink, cleaned up our mess, and left a tip.

In my opinion Amtrak made a huge mistake, getting rid of the Sightseer lounges, but that's another story.

The trains were mostly on time, and we had a good time and want to go to NO again, as we didn't allow enough time there.

Have fun!

GregL

You and Larry H. paint a pretty bleak picture of a "fun train ride" from CHI to NOL, and back. Amtrak's next step might be to replace the CCC car with a bag of peanuts. If you're correct in your assessment, this'll be my last train trip for fun. Amtrak seems to be following the lead of the airlines. New Orleans is our destination. If a crowded CCC car is my only perk, I might as well take a plane.

Our stay in New Orleans will certainly be fun. This is my first trip since Katrina, and I have a local driver all lined up to give us the grand tour. The trip on the train was supposed to be half the fun, but getting there on the train now appears to be... yuckey?

 

[Montanan]

Recent consists of the CNO have included one of the dorm/sleeper cars, one full sleeper, the CCC and three coaches, one of which has a baggage compartment on its lower level. I haven't ridden it since the CCC was introduced, but the train is generally much less busy then the western trains -- there's a good atmosphere on board.

I'm withholding my own judgement on the CCC until I actually experience it (which should happen next month) but riding the train in earlier years I recall the Sightseer car was often pretty empty. And though the views are quite pleasant, they're certainly not as spectacular as on some other routes. So I guess if there's one Amtrak train that HAS to have a CCC car, the CNO is as good a one as any.

 

[had8ley]

Recent consists of the CNO have included one of the dorm/sleeper cars, one full sleeper, the CCC and three coaches, one of which has a baggage compartment on its lower level. I haven't ridden it since the CCC was introduced, but the train is generally much less busy then the western trains -- there's a good atmosphere on board.
I'm withholding my own judgement on the CCC until I actually experience it (which should happen next month) but riding the train in earlier years I recall the Sightseer car was often pretty empty. And though the views are quite pleasant, they're certainly not as spectacular as on some other routes. So I guess if there's one Amtrak train that HAS to have a CCC car, the CNO is as good a one as any.

Very good analogy. I just wish that someone would have the foresight to tack on a Sightseer for Mardi Gras, Super Bowls and other big events to where the crowds don't over run the CCC. I saw #58 in Hammond and it had three coaches this trip; no baggage car and the standard one engine.

 

[Larry H.]

Recent consists of the CNO have included one of the dorm/sleeper cars, one full sleeper, the CCC and three coaches, one of which has a baggage compartment on its lower level. I haven't ridden it since the CCC was introduced, but the train is generally much less busy then the western trains -- there's a good atmosphere on board.
I'm withholding my own judgement on the CCC until I actually experience it (which should happen next month) but riding the train in earlier years I recall the Sightseer car was often pretty empty. And though the views are quite pleasant, they're certainly not as spectacular as on some other routes. So I guess if there's one Amtrak train that HAS to have a CCC car, the CNO is as good a one as any.

Thayer,

Its not all that bad, and perhaps in off dining times they will allow use of the dining end as lounge, that was the original idea, although as reported above the crew seems to want to keep it for dining only. Personally I don't care for the early boarding and then getting you to eat in the tunnel while the train sits there! I would wait till it left the station to eat if you have a choice, which you should, I think the announce they serve till 9pm or so leaving chicago. If I were you I would send a letter to Amtraks President stating why you will no longer be using the rail option.. I know they are getting those letters. I have complained a number of times in both a phone survey they made as well as in letters they sent about the CCC. So far however they are full steam ahead on dumping diners and soon to follow are lounges unless someone forces a change.. I don't know who though?

Montanan.. since the fuel price crisis the train is running pretty well full.

The upside to the trip is that if possible the train runs more on time or within an hour or so of most of the others and the crews I have encountered are much nicer than the ones we had on the Capitol Limited a few weeks ago.

 

[JohnF]

We're taking Train 59 (CONO) south in November, and Train 58 (CONO) back north. I've read several accounts of what Amtrak "SHOULD" do, and several accounts of what Amtrak "MIGHT" do. I need some concrete answers on what Amtrak "IS" doing on the City Of New Orleans. What can I expect? BTW, we have sleepers both ways.
For instance --- is the train made up of one engine, (OK, two, but never mind that) one baggage car, and a bunch of sleepers and coaches, with only one CCC car? Are my wife and I going to be limited to enjoying the trip in only a crowded CCC car and our bedroom? Is there any other way of watching the landscape go by?

I rode this train once back with it was heritage equipment. I wanted to ride one of the 10-6 sleepers before they were all retired. I talso had a dome coach in the consists which was fun to ride in, particularly out of Chicago at night. I enjoyed the trip. I had a friend that worked for Amtrak and worked this train often. He said it was nicknamed the "chicken bone run". Might give you some hints. Even then it did not have a full diner. But you have to remember that Superliner cars have huge capacity compared to heritage cars. Even at only 5 cars the train has a capacity of over 250 passengers. One thing for sure though......the Panama Limited or City of New Orleans of IC fame it aint. Its actually more on the schedule of the Louisiane, an IC secondary train on the route.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I too remember riding the City when it was Amfleet and Heritage and spending the entire night in the Dome. But I had to cool my heels for the first few hours in the Amfleet Diner-Lounge as the Conductor put all the University of Illinois and Southern Illinois University students in the Dome to keep them away from the rest of the pax

And the chow was pretty good if I remember.

 

[George Harris]

the Panama Limited or City of New Orleans of IC fame it aint. Its actually more on the schedule of the Louisiane, an IC secondary train on the route.

Also noticed that similarity. It is a little faster than the Louisiane, but it also has a lot fewer stops, and did not have the huge volume of mail and other head end traffic that the Louisiane used to carry north of Memphis. I caught the Louisiane once, at Memphis on a Saturday night to go to Martin, TN (Louisiane to Fulton KY, then Seminole from there to Martin), and at that time, 1963, it carried a fairly heavy passenger load. Don't remember at this late date, but I think there were 6 or more heavy weight coaches and a pullman, maybe two. The Seminole was no empty coach special, either, I think it also had about 5 or more fairly full coaches.

As an aside, at that time the City of New Orleans carried an RPO north of Memphis. According to my brother-in-law, that train had a reputation with the Railway mail service clerks and the wildest ride there was out of Memphis. At thati time it was expected that the train would make schedule, and that meant making up time as much as possible. Memphis was only sceduled for a 10 minute stop, and in that 10 minutes you dealt with the biggest passenger turnover on the trip, added a third unit and the RPO, and quite often 2 to 4 more coaches, as well. As a result, even if arriving on time, it was common on weekends for the train to be 5 to 10 minutes late leaving Memphis. After tiptoeing along the riverfront, it was time to run. There was the 79 mph limit and a number of 65 to 70 mph curve limits. Usually about half way through the curve, you could see the increase in smoke indicating that, we may have entered the curve at the appropriate speed, but it is now time to accelerate. The 79 mph speed limit? There was this unwritted clause that said, "if on time, if not, do whatever is safe to get back on time".

 

[had8ley]

When this train ran with Heritage equipment it had a fireman, baggageman, and a coach attendant in each car. They have all gone the way of the RPO and the dome cars. (#58's engineer swaps out at Jackson while the train crew goes on to Greenwood to satisfy the less than 6 hour running rule for one man in the cab.)

 

[JohnF]

the Panama Limited or City of New Orleans of IC fame it aint. Its actually more on the schedule of the Louisiane, an IC secondary train on the route.

There was the 79 mph limit and a number of 65 to 70 mph curve limits. Usually about half way through the curve, you could see the increase in smoke indicating that, we may have entered the curve at the appropriate speed, but it is now time to accelerate. The 79 mph speed limit? There was this unwritted clause that said, "if on time, if not, do whatever is safe to get back on time".

George, as I recall, before Amtrak came along the IC actually had a 100MPH speed limit. It was reduced to the ICC approved 79MPH when they took up the double track. I remember Amtrak protesting these changes but they had no way to stop it. That is when the schedule began to change to it's current configuration. The IC had four trains a day on this route all on different timings. With the current service limited to just one train a day probably this is the most practical schecule as it gives the public an overnight Memphis to Chicago and serves most cities at a reasonable time.

 

[had8ley]

And the chow was pretty good if I remember.

I remember when all they had was the dinette with one LSA and a microwave with the Heritage 10/6 and dome car. Pretty spartan menu and not very appetizing. IIRC, the diner came back when it went to Superliner equipment.

 

[Railroad Bill]

Wife and I just rode the CONO on Saturday and Sunday last weekend and had an enjoyable time. The CCC does tax the wait staff but our service was excellent, new menu is very good and although most of the ride southbound is in the dark, we were awake and having breakfast in Memphis, an enjoyable conversation with a lady from South Chicago and a pleasant ride through the cotton fields of Mississippi. Train was only 30 minutes late. Arrived just in time for the end of the Raiders-Saints game. That was a wild time!!

Hope you have a nice trip. The CONO is not my favorite ride but it was interesting and the CCC was not as bad as I anticipated. By the way, the CCC is now on the Capitol Limited where it is much more of a problem handling the large crowds. Breakfast was fine but supper is a challenge

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The train runs with:

P42, Trans/Dorm, Sleeper, CCC, Bag-coach, Coach, and often a second coach.

However, it has high turnover in coach. I think that most of the time, the CCC serves the train fairly well. The CCC will never match the Panama Limited's Kings Dinner, but hey, this is the best Amtrak can do with its mandates.

 

[ThayerATM]

I want to thank everybody for answering my question so directly. I'll now wing it without judgement before I endure the CCC experience.

Breakfast on a train has never been a hassle. Just have your nose pressed up at the entrance at 6:30 AM, and you're right in, and seated. I guess most Pax like to sleep in. Lunch on the Lake shore limited (diner lite) was a little more complicated, but we were able to make it with the first seating. Service was slow, but adequate.

Does anybody have any tips on how to handle the CCC dinner arrangements northbound on # 58, just in case the train is near full? Is there a best time to reserve, or to be there in case they don't take reservations? Dinner will only be an issue on the way north. I think that dinner on the way south will take care of itself, as it'll be served on boarding, as the train leaves Union Station at 8:00 PM. Early boarding for Sleeper passengers only --- or so I'm told.

 

[Larry H.]

Remember they will if possible load you at around 6:30 pm in the Station, the idea being to serve people while the train is still sitting, which I don't care for. But they also wanted to avoid too late a dinner time for passengers that wanted to eat earlier than the 9 p.m. it often was when they started after pulling out at 8 p.m. You can wait if you wish, I have done it both ways. Actually the last time a few months ago the train was late making up and the diner wasn't ready so we did eat as the train was leaving the station.

As to the speed limit.. I used to ride the Panama Chicago to Centralia, as well as to New Orleans and the 100 miles an hour became quite a scary ride down south. The sparks were flying off the rails on curves and everything shook like crazy.. I don't know if it was the track or equipment.. They still were running the old equipment then..

I also rode the combined railroads versions and often it had a dome and dinning car of interest or lounge, sometimes while the cars were still fairly new the experience was fun.. Then the wreck about 5 miles from where I live now at Tonti that killed I think 11 people. Did terrible damage to the cars and one person was never to this day identified who ended up under the train.. That was when the speed limit was dropped from what I can recall. I have the date on that somewhere but haven't bothered to get it out..

Also the running time is way longer now that in the old days.. I recall it left the Illinois Central Station around 6 p.m. and I think you were in New Orleans around 8 a.m. Thats been a long time ago so I may be off on that, and I pitched all my old schedules. It might have been closer to 11 a.m. but way faster than now.. I also recall that you could just about set you watch by the accurate time of the trains all along the route..

 

[ThayerATM]

Remember they will if possible load you at around 6:30 pm in the Station, the idea being to serve people while the train is still sitting, which I don't care for. But they also wanted to avoid too late a dinner time for passengers that wanted to eat earlier than the 9 p.m. it often was when they started after pulling out at 8 p.m. You can wait if you wish, I have done it both ways. Actually the last time a few months ago the train was late making up and the diner wasn't ready so we did eat as the train was leaving the station.

OK, roger that. I guess the Metropolitan Lounge in CHI will tell us when we can board, and we'll have the red cap toss the bags to the car attendant with an appropriate tip, and head for the CCC. This isn't tipping up front. It's tipping for handling the bags.

On the way back north, train 58 pulls out of NOL at 1:45 PM, almost always on time. I haven't read anything about early boarding in NOL, so I'm assuming that we'll miss formal "lunch." Dinner strategy will be the mysterious timing. If the attendant takes reservation times for dinner, no sweat. If it's "battle it out with the masses," what's the best strategy for getting a decent (early) time for dinner. I suppose we won't starve to death if we have to wait, as I'll have my own "refreshments," but still, having a plan ahead of time helps.

 

[Larry H.]

Normally someone will ask what time you want to go for dinner, although the CN crew is a bit different in some respects. They may just announce dinner and it is first come first serve, but with large loads as today I would guess like most other trains they will make reservations for the time you want to eat and they have tables open.. Having said that I recall in the station they just let people sit down to eat and got to them as they could? Maybe someone with a better memory will recall it correctly..

 

[George Harris]

the Panama Limited or City of New Orleans of IC fame it aint. Its actually more on the schedule of the Louisiane, an IC secondary train on the route.

There was the 79 mph limit and a number of 65 to 70 mph curve limits. Usually about half way through the curve, you could see the increase in smoke indicating that, we may have entered the curve at the appropriate speed, but it is now time to accelerate. The 79 mph speed limit? There was this unwritted clause that said, "if on time, if not, do whatever is safe to get back on time".

George, as I recall, before Amtrak came along the IC actually had a 100MPH speed limit. It was reduced to the ICC approved 79MPH when they took up the double track. I remember Amtrak protesting these changes but they had no way to stop it. That is when the schedule began to change to it's current configuration. The IC had four trains a day on this route all on different timings. With the current service limited to just one train a day probably this is the most practical schecule as it gives the public an overnight Memphis to Chicago and serves most cities at a reasonable time.

There was a length of track in Illinois with the 100 mph limit, and it lasted into the 1960's but was 90 mph when Amttrak came into being. It stayed in place as 90 mph until the single tracking of the main, and then went to 79 mph. However, South of Carbondale, the speed limit was always 79 mph or lower. According to a 1982 ETT, the limits of the 90 mph were Champaign (MP 127.8 to Branch Jct (MP 250.0). I think these were always the limits of the 100 mph area.

That is not to say they obeyed it, but that is what it was.