The last time I flew was over 22 years ago. At that time I was given a knock out pill from my daughter doctor because they wanted her to fly home after brain surgery, the ambulance drivers rolled her on and rolled me on- I think-lol- we flew from Newark to NO. I became afraid of flying after the crash in Detroit- don’t know why- something clicked in my brain- flew there but - no problem- was terrified to fly home.Started taking Amtrak before flex was cancelled on Crescent- loved it-my never again moment was last trip on Crescent- I had to lug my own luggage to my sleeper, no attention from the attendant until tip time, empty my own garbage, nasty flex meal-it was a lonely trip- not the same feeling as before.Im old I hate long -5 hours or more- road trips on interstate where everyone in is a big hurry and speeding. I’m a nervous Nelly so my never again is all of the above
Comparison of Amtrak vs. other transport mode
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Link to an article about Prof. Arnold Barnett's research.
https://news.mit.edu/2020/study-commercial-flights-safer-ever-0124
All that may be statistically correct. But I will take trains whenever I can. They seldom explode or fall from 5 or so miles in the air. True, when things go sideways on a train, bad things happen. Your odds of surviving an event are better, once the event happens.
I rode a 707 down in Brasilia (tore off left landing gear on takeoff), so I think I have tempted the flight gods enough.
pi314
Train Attendant
It seems to me that comparing the relative safety of planes vs trains is a pointless statistical exercise. The chances of dying or being injured using either mode are so remotely insignificant that any personal experience with that would come down to pure chance.
You're arguably more likely to survive the event (though, depending on what qualifies as an event, may not be fully true - there's a lot of flight emergencies or partial equipment failures which result in a safe landing,) but the incident rate is significantly lower on flights (particularly per mile traveled) than on passenger rail, which offsets the per-incident injury/death rate and then some.
That said, as noted above, both are extremely safe, much more so than driving an automobile on public roads.
jis
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Well, when someone prefers to drive rather than being on a plane others can take the arguments about statistics with a large dollop of salt
as it would appear to be selective wielding of such. 
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Then again there is Mark Twain's wonderful essay on the dangers of lying in bed:
https://www.mtwain.com/The_Danger_Of_Lying_In_Bed/0.html
https://www.mtwain.com/The_Danger_Of_Lying_In_Bed/0.html
Mystic River Dragon
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Oh my goodness, what a wonderful read! I love Mark Twain but had never come across this piece. Thank you so much for finding and posting it!
In answer to the safety comparison between trains and planes, my preference of a train over a plane comes down to the fact that a passenger who is acting badly can be removed from the train quickly, hopefully before they can cause any harm.. In a plane, you’re stuck with them and essentially sitting ducks until the plane eventually lands.
For example, on NJT once, I went to find a conductor because two men were yelling at each other in the quiet car over one of them talking — loudly — on the phone. I found a conductor — a petite older lady who looked like she was bored to tears toward the end of a long and boring commute. I told her what was going on and her eyes lit up and she rubbed her hands together (I’d never seen anyone actually do that) and charged right into the quiet car to deal with them.
If those two men had been on a plane, the fight could have escalated out of control and there would be nowhere to escape from them.
My wife and I just completed a 4000+ mile road trip. We like driving together. We get along famously.
However, if we could have made the intinerary work on Amtrak we would have done so. When not in a hurry, and when the destinations are Amtrak locations, there is no comparable way to get to your destinations rested or to get home not feeling like you need a vacation from your vacation.
Of course, we get along famously, and with a lot less stress, in a sleeper rather than in the car.
We have had some negative experiences on Amtrak, but nothing like what happened to the original poster's radio pastor friend. Just keep that pastor away from the House of Representatives, please, but understand his rationale for never competing with the rest of us for tix.
However, if we could have made the intinerary work on Amtrak we would have done so. When not in a hurry, and when the destinations are Amtrak locations, there is no comparable way to get to your destinations rested or to get home not feeling like you need a vacation from your vacation.
Of course, we get along famously, and with a lot less stress, in a sleeper rather than in the car.
We have had some negative experiences on Amtrak, but nothing like what happened to the original poster's radio pastor friend. Just keep that pastor away from the House of Representatives, please, but understand his rationale for never competing with the rest of us for tix.
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I am sometimes of mixed emotions, like the old joke about watching one's mother in law driving over the cliff in one's new car.
I love my Teslas, and when I have a trip planned, if I can make an AMTRAK itinerary, I go by train. Otherwise, I drive for about 5-7 cents a mile. Sometimes I can rent a Tesla at my destination. Win Win!
I love my Teslas, and when I have a trip planned, if I can make an AMTRAK itinerary, I go by train. Otherwise, I drive for about 5-7 cents a mile. Sometimes I can rent a Tesla at my destination. Win Win!
I only have one question - how do you feel about teslas....?
(sorry, i had to)
I can't think of very many instances of a US airline, flying over US soil, exploding or falling from the sky in the last 25 years.
Both planes are trains are vastly safer than cars (most of us can even speak to that anecdotally, without citing statistics), but we are all willing to take that risk daily without a second thought.
sporksradiant
Train Attendant
This.
In addition, Amtrak has the unique opportunity at present to seize a chunk of air passengers who cannot or will not fly now. There is a whole host of 35-50 year olds who are discovering they are not cleared to fly medically due to disability, allergies, or medical conditions such as heart problems. I'm one of those myself - I cannot fly now due to a heart condition.
If Amtrak played their cards right, they would offer at least comparable fares to flying as a loss leader to get this group into the habit of train use. Offer a good solid service, at a good price and open ability to book roomettes / coach at a set price with the addition of extra cars if needed due to demand.
This should be part of the political discourse over transportation funding. I'd like to get an idea of the actual percentage of people who can't fly for medical reasons. I imagine that as the population ages, this percentage is increasing. When you get right down to it, our passenger transportation system is funded almost entirely to support driving in private cars or flying in commercial airlines. In addition to an increasing number of people not being able to fly for medical reasons, an increasing number of people are not able to drive their cars for medical reasons. If you can't fly or can't drive, then you've essentially lost your mobility. Also, reducing the overall passenger miles traveled by car and airplane will result in a lot of social and environmental benefits. Unless the politicians want to spend really big bucks subsidizing private car services for everybody, they're really going to need to think about a quantum increase in funding for surface passenger transportation, including long-distance rail and an integrated connecting bus service to smaller locations.
sporksradiant
Train Attendant
@MARC Rider The answer to how many can't fly is...complicated. A lot of people fly when not advised to do so - there usually isn't anyone checking flight fitness. Airlines have the right to demand a flight clearance from a doctor, but very rarely do so.
That said, anyone who has a cardiac issue, sickle cell, a history of stroke, a history of DVT or any other condition that requires supplemental oxygen or impairs oxygen intake such as COPD likely would not be cleared to fly due to the effects of pressurization on oxygen levels and the body. Same thing for anyone suffering from any sort of suppressed immune system - the effects of being in a small area for an extended period of time, re-breathing shared air are a recipe for contagion.
This never was an issue for the most part until recently, as most folks who suffered from these sorts of conditions were either A. Elderly or B. Disabled and rarely traveled. However with COVID-19 causing long COVID which affects both heart & lungs, particularly the uptake of oxygen as well as causing immune system dysfunction in a subset of folks....we now are seeing a much larger group of working age adults who should not be flying. We have data at present that indicates around 30% of COVID suffers go on to develop some form of long COVID, and the same data shows that about 5% to 10% of the overall population has disabling symptoms that interfere with standard activities.
If I had to guess at a number overall? I'd say somewhere between 15% and 25% of the population of the USA likely should not be flying. It could potentially be as high as 30% or even 35%, but a chunk of those aren't aware they shouldn't be flying. If we add in those who cannot drive, that likely jumps to as high as 40-50% of the population by the time we factor in vision loss, medical conditions prohibiting driving such as epilepsy, and neurodivergency conditions such as autism or ADHD that can make driving difficult.
Unfortunately as has long been the case, most disabled folks are expected to do without or pay their own way. Public transit for disabled in America is a headache, with every single little burg, county and area doing their own version of the same federally funded programs - most of which are only open to senior citizens or the very disabled who are nearly housebound.
That said, anyone who has a cardiac issue, sickle cell, a history of stroke, a history of DVT or any other condition that requires supplemental oxygen or impairs oxygen intake such as COPD likely would not be cleared to fly due to the effects of pressurization on oxygen levels and the body. Same thing for anyone suffering from any sort of suppressed immune system - the effects of being in a small area for an extended period of time, re-breathing shared air are a recipe for contagion.
This never was an issue for the most part until recently, as most folks who suffered from these sorts of conditions were either A. Elderly or B. Disabled and rarely traveled. However with COVID-19 causing long COVID which affects both heart & lungs, particularly the uptake of oxygen as well as causing immune system dysfunction in a subset of folks....we now are seeing a much larger group of working age adults who should not be flying. We have data at present that indicates around 30% of COVID suffers go on to develop some form of long COVID, and the same data shows that about 5% to 10% of the overall population has disabling symptoms that interfere with standard activities.
If I had to guess at a number overall? I'd say somewhere between 15% and 25% of the population of the USA likely should not be flying. It could potentially be as high as 30% or even 35%, but a chunk of those aren't aware they shouldn't be flying. If we add in those who cannot drive, that likely jumps to as high as 40-50% of the population by the time we factor in vision loss, medical conditions prohibiting driving such as epilepsy, and neurodivergency conditions such as autism or ADHD that can make driving difficult.
Unfortunately as has long been the case, most disabled folks are expected to do without or pay their own way. Public transit for disabled in America is a headache, with every single little burg, county and area doing their own version of the same federally funded programs - most of which are only open to senior citizens or the very disabled who are nearly housebound.
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Also add in those afraid of or anxious about flying which is not insignificant.
west point
Engineer
Again many who question the statements about not flying or not able to drive for whatever reason. Cars are getting too expensive. Just to cover present routes how can persons who do not live close to an airport be able to drive to that airport. Just on the Crescent around the great ATL airport. Anniston, Gainesville Ga, Toccoa ga, Clemson. and so forth.
pi314
Train Attendant
Just to put an additional perspective on your comments:
I'm a recently retired commercial pilot. In 2021 I got covid real bad - 16 days hospital, pneumonia, DVT, the works. After release I had long covid symptoms for months. Long story short, I'm (mostly) fully recovered, although it took 8 months to get my FAA medical restored. My resting oxygen saturation is 98% and after 6 months of blood thinners, my DVT diagnosis was changed from acute to chronic and I was good to go. I do wear compression socks when I fly though.
As for the cabin oxygen depletion at cruise: we'd get people with oxygen issues routinely carrying their own FAA-approved O2 generators. The maximum cabin cruise altitude you'd ever encounter would be 8,000', often a bit less, and the good news is with a few exceptions, most domestic flights will be 4 hours or less, and even less than that at cruise altitude. I'm thinking the long term exposure on an Amtrak route across the Rockies would far exceed anything you'd encounter on a relatively short flight.
In regard to shared air concerns: the air exchange rate in a modern airline cabin is actually pretty robust. Air is continually pumped in from the overhead vents (not referring to those tiny round little individual directional vents) and exhausted out through floor vents at a pretty good rate, and then for fuel efficiency a portion of that air is recirculated through HEPA filters. I would posit that the air quality on an airliner is much better than the confined quarters of any other mode of public transportation.
Don't get me wrong - I actually despise flying as a passenger and would prefer to take the train, but the best thing about flying is you can (usually) just get the trip over with quickly.
