Confusion: Point redemption trips scheduled by Jan 24 and then cancel

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C&O RR

C&O RR

Service Attendant
AU Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
150
Location
Richmond, Va
I just called AGR and to scheduled a points trip for April 2016. I asked the agent, “If I cancell this trip after Jan 24th will the new 10% penalty apply”. The agent said that I would get all of my points returned and that the new cancellation policy would not apply.

This is the second time that have gotten the same answer. Has Amtrak stated in writing the offical policy on cancelling point trips after Jan 24th?

:help:
 
when I booked my trip yesterday I was told by the agent that if I cancelled on/after the 24th I'd be docked the 10%, she also said if I made an alternate reservation my points would be effective at the new rate, not the old.
 
C&O RR said:
I just called AGR and to scheduled a points trip for April 2016. I asked the agent, “If I cancell this trip after Jan 24th will the new 10% penalty apply”. The agent said that I would get all of my points returned and that the new cancellation policy would not apply.

This is the second time that have gotten the same answer. Has Amtrak stated in writing the offical policy on cancelling point trips after Jan 24th?

:help:
Click to expand...
This is consistent with what I've been saying all along, that a return/cancellation policy is determined by the policy in effect when the purchase is made.
Others have insisted on disagreeing.
 
Chey said:
when I booked my trip yesterday I was told by the agent that if I cancelled on/after the 24th I'd be docked the 10%, she also said if I made an alternate reservation my points would be effective at the new rate, not the old.
Click to expand...
Wait.

You mean to say that if you made a reservation before the 24th (old system) and then modified it afterward, the NEW system would apply?

Planning a trip to NOLA, but I want to be sure the bedrooms aren't sold out when I travel. I wonder if it would behoove me to book both legs now, then modify after the 24th (looks like it would be fewer points under the new system).
 
George K said:
Chey said:
when I booked my trip yesterday I was told by the agent that if I cancelled on/after the 24th I'd be docked the 10%, she also said if I made an alternate reservation my points would be effective at the new rate, not the old.
Click to expand...
Wait.

You mean to say that if you made a reservation before the 24th (old system) and then modified it afterward, the NEW system would apply?

Planning a trip to NOLA, but I want to be sure the bedrooms aren't sold out when I travel. I wonder if it would behoove me to book both legs now, then modify after the 24th (looks like it would be fewer points under the new system).
Click to expand...
That's what I've been "hearing" here on AU.
 
AmtrakBlue said:
George K said:
Chey said:
when I booked my trip yesterday I was told by the agent that if I cancelled on/after the 24th I'd be docked the 10%, she also said if I made an alternate reservation my points would be effective at the new rate, not the old.
Click to expand...
Wait.

You mean to say that if you made a reservation before the 24th (old system) and then modified it afterward, the NEW system would apply?

Planning a trip to NOLA, but I want to be sure the bedrooms aren't sold out when I travel. I wonder if it would behoove me to book both legs now, then modify after the 24th (looks like it would be fewer points under the new system).
Click to expand...
That's what I've been "hearing" here on AU.
Click to expand...
Even if that's the case, the 10% penalty, if, indeed applied, would be more than offset by the points I'd pay for the new reservations.
 
George K said:
Chey said:
when I booked my trip yesterday I was told by the agent that if I cancelled on/after the 24th I'd be docked the 10%, she also said if I made an alternate reservation my points would be effective at the new rate, not the old.
Click to expand...
Wait.

You mean to say that if you made a reservation before the 24th (old system) and then modified it afterward, the NEW system would apply?

Planning a trip to NOLA, but I want to be sure the bedrooms aren't sold out when I travel. I wonder if it would behoove me to book both legs now, then modify after the 24th (looks like it would be fewer points under the new system).
Click to expand...
That's what I heard. It's possible I misunderstood, it's also possible she misstated it. Who the heck knows!! We'll find out after the 24th,
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DoB said:
C&O RR said:
I just called AGR and to scheduled a points trip for April 2016. I asked the agent, “If I cancell this trip after Jan 24th will the new 10% penalty apply”. The agent said that I would get all of my points returned and that the new cancellation policy would not apply.

This is the second time that have gotten the same answer. Has Amtrak stated in writing the offical policy on cancelling point trips after Jan 24th?

:help:
Click to expand...
This is consistent with what I've been saying all along, that a return/cancellation policy is determined by the policy in effect when the purchase is made.
Others have insisted on disagreeing.
Click to expand...
It is specially ominous when the folks who manage the AGR system insist on disagreeing with you though ;) since they make the rules that actually apply.
 
I was told the penalties WOULD apply if my trip was modified or cancelled cancelled after Jan 24. The agent said they just had a meeting on it (this was about 10 days ago).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just to recap ....

If the trip is cancelled after January 23rd 10% of the points will be docked and the rest refunded.

If the trip is modified, the points cost of the new trip will be calculated using the new rules.

Then if this is less than the points used for the original trip the difference will be refunded minus 10% of the difference.

If the points cost is equal or more then the difference (if any) will be taken from your AGR account.

If you don't believe it then go to FlyerTalk and send a message to AGRInsider and have the pleasure of getting the same information from him.

After the 23rd new rules apply irrespective of what rules were used for making the original reservation, whenever you try to modify the reservation in any way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I just booked my trip (CHI - NOL and back). It's a one-zone bedroom redemption (50K points). I asked the agent if I can modify to take advantage of the new system after the 24th, and he told me I could. However, he did not tell me about the 10% of the difference penalty. Still, it's probably worth it in my case.

For my trip to NOL the estimator comes up with 13,697 points.

For the return to CHI, it's $22,460.

That's a total of 33,157, as opposed to 50,000, a difference of 13,843.

Yeah, I'd eat the penalty for that.
 
jis said:
Just to recap ....

If the trip is cancelled after January 23rd 10% of the points will be docked and the rest refunded.

If the trip is modified, the points cost of the new trip will be calculated using the new rules.

Then if this is less than the points used for the original trip the difference will be refunded minus 10% of the difference.

If the points cost is equal or more then the difference (if any) will be taken from your AGR account.

If you don't believe it then go to FlyerTalk and send a message to AGRInsider and have the pleasure of getting the same information from him.

After the 23rd new rules apply irrespective of what rules were used for making the original reservation, whenever you try to modify the reservation in any way.
Click to expand...
Caveated with "agents on the phone frequently do whatever they please, so YMMV (depending on what the computer prompts/allows them to do)".
 
jis said:
DoB said:
C&O RR said:
I just called AGR and to scheduled a points trip for April 2016. I asked the agent, “If I cancell this trip after Jan 24th will the new 10% penalty apply”. The agent said that I would get all of my points returned and that the new cancellation policy would not apply.

This is the second time that have gotten the same answer. Has Amtrak stated in writing the offical policy on cancelling point trips after Jan 24th?

:help:
Click to expand...
This is consistent with what I've been saying all along, that a return/cancellation policy is determined by the policy in effect when the purchase is made.
Others have insisted on disagreeing.
Click to expand...
It is specially ominous when the folks who manage the AGR system insist on disagreeing with you though ;) since they make the rules that actually apply.
Click to expand...
Yet the two agents C&O RR spoke to agree with me.

If I make a purchase under the terms of a particular return policy, the merchant has as much right to retroactively modify the return policy as to retroactively modify the goods that I purchased. Or, to bring this back to AGR, if I spend 15k points for a fully refundable ticket for a roomette from Denver to Emeryville, Amtrak/AGR can't unilaterally change the refund policy in the future any more than they can change the origin or destination. Of course, if I then change my reservation after a new pricing and return policy is in place, I'm subject to all of the new rules, since both parties agreed to the change.

If Amtrak/AGR insists on applying a new refund policy to tickets purchased under an old refund policy, I wouldn't be surprised to see a class action lawsuit. In many cases the loss is quite significant. To take a high-end but perhaps not entirely atypical example, a 3-zone round trip in a bedroom currently costs 120k points. Somebody who booked a fully refundable round trip ticket for 120k points (perhaps as far back as February 2015), with the understanding that it's fully refundable, yet is docked 12k points based on the new policy, has lost the equivalent of $348 (based on the new point values).

There's a reason that, when retail establishments tighten their return policies, the new policies are only applied to new purchases. (And that reason is not generosity.)
 
Whatever. As I said I am just stating what has been explained at length by people who manage AGR. Typically participants in reward programs have learned over and over again that they do not win cases challenging changes in reward programs, even post facto ones. But of course only time will tell.
 
I booked a one-zone redemption a couple of months ago...I was told there would be a points penalty if I cancelled/modified after the 24th. For the time being, I'll go with that. If that doesn't happen so much the better. It is very unlikely I'll cancel as this trip is wrapped around an already booked and paid cruise.
 
So I know this has been asked before, but are name changes on the reservation considered "modifications"? The agent said a name change could be done without any penalty or change in points from the zone reward. Is that true?
 
My understanding is that a name change and a request to change to a different room will not trigger repricing.

With regard to the imposition of the new refund penalty on existing reservations, this was also done when refund penalties were first imposed on paid reservations March 1, 2014. That policy was applied to all reservations, including those made before the policy was announced. I thought at the time that the retroactive change to existing reservations was a little shaky legally, but it went through. It is possible that if someone cancels a reservation made months ago and makes a big enough stink about not getting all the points back, that Amtrak may relent. I would not bet on it.

If an airline pulls a stunt like this (selling a fully refundable ticket, then months later imposing a refund penalty), there is an official US DOT process for complaint and redress. There is no comparable official complaint path for Amtrak issues.

One thing I think Amtrak should do is to send all current holders of AGR award reservations for travel January 24 and beyond an email advising them of the points refund policy change. It would allow those who are not comfortable with the new policy the option to cancel without penalty by EOB January 23. That would also limit the surprise factor for future changes or cancelations.
 
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I had a situation where I wanted to change a name on an existing reservation

and I was told that a name change can only be accomplished by canceling and

rebooking the trip and may result in a higher fare. This was prior to Jan 24.
 
Just made reservations to/from Denver for late February. Would have saved 7000 points if I waited until 1/24, but the low bucket rooms were going fast. As it is, I have room 7 in one direction (not my preferred). After 1/24 I will call and see what shakes out. Love to have the points back but an enjoyable trip is more important. :wacko:
 

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