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I have also said in the past I think some people make too big of a deal about the food service (or lack of). The main goal of Amtrak is transportation. Food service is secondary. If there is food and beverage losses, someone's paying and we know who it is. Is it really fair for the rest of us to pay so some rich travelers can enjoy Amtrak steaks? A lot of people in this country cannot afford the Amtrak steaks or Amtrak in general and a lot of people have bad or even no service. Are you who insist on Amtrak steaks willing to pay $30-$40 a steak for a steak which at Outback costs half that (or pay much higher room charges?) Someone has to pay for you to enjoy your Amtrak steaks at $25. Think about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for better quality of service but people act like Boardman is the worst thing that ever happened to Amtrak because a few trains lost their Amtrak steaks (and that's mainly because of a delayed CAF order). Meanwhile most of PA would like just a direct train to Chicago and would gladly take cafe car food (and we had that for about nine years and I didn't hear complaints until we lost it). And there's a lot of people out there who would like any train, period. If I can afford 3-4 more LD routes by making every LD train dinerless and serve more people across the country, I would.

It all comes down to money. If Congress gave Amtrak $2B a year, you'd see more routes and better service. But with the current subsidy, not everyone is going to get what they want. So there has to be choices made. Everyone (especially me) wants what is best for them personally. But you have to realize that there are two sides to every decision they made. You don't have to like the decisions they made and can be angry with them. But unless you increase the subsidy, something's going to go. If the diner car(s) don't go, what does? And I can pretty much guarantee someone else will complain. Unless a bunch of money falls from the sky to Amtrak, costs go up and things have to go. That's why Amtrak has overall cut service since 1971. Their costs have risen faster than the government subsidy. At least when I say I want something, I'm willing to at least answer what to cut to make up for it. You may not (and don't) agree with my proposal but the only way to increase service somewhere when under budget is to cut something else.

And if Amtrak does get the $2B, where's that going to come from? You know what the answer to that will be. Look in the mirror ... or your wallet.
 
Who will be the next Amtrak president? Depends on the November elections

The Donald wins - one of his relatives

Hillary wins - a big donor's relative
No, it does not work that way for Amtrak. The CEO of Amtrak is a not a political plum job by any means. With Boardman retiring in September, his successor will likely be selected by the Amtrak board soon and would start shortly after Boardman departs. Boardman gave the board and US DOT plenty of advance notice, so they have had time to search for a successor.

Remember, Boardman started as CEO in the last year of the Bush administration after a stint as FRA administrator. The Obama administration and the two Secretaries of Transportation during the Obama never replaced Boardman with their own appointee.
 
I have also said in the past I think some people make too big of a deal about the food service (or lack of). The main goal of Amtrak is transportation. Food service is secondary. If there is food and beverage losses, someone's paying and we know who it is. Is it really fair for the rest of us to pay so some rich travelers can enjoy Amtrak steaks? A lot of people in this country cannot afford the Amtrak steaks or Amtrak in general and a lot of people have bad or even no service. Are you who insist on Amtrak steaks willing to pay $30-$40 a steak for a steak which at Outback costs half that (or pay much higher room charges?) Someone has to pay for you to enjoy your Amtrak steaks at $25. Think about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for better quality of service but people act like Boardman is the worst thing that ever happened to Amtrak because a few trains lost their Amtrak steaks (and that's mainly because of a delayed CAF order). Meanwhile most of PA would like just a direct train to Chicago and would gladly take cafe car food (and we had that for about nine years and I didn't hear complaints until we lost it). And there's a lot of people out there who would like any train, period. If I can afford 3-4 more LD routes by making every LD train dinerless and serve more people across the country, I would.
The purpose of the dining car and food service has been to attract people to passenger rail. As the quality and availability of food goes down so will the ridership. We will not ride any LD route without food service. I am certain that other people feel the same. Can you imagine going from NY to Seattle without food service? I can't and won't. As for rich people eating steaks; rich people do not eat the meals let alone the steaks that Amtrak serves.
 
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I have also said in the past I think some people make too big of a deal about the food service (or lack of). The main goal of Amtrak is transportation. Food service is secondary. If there is food and beverage losses, someone's paying and we know who it is. Is it really fair for the rest of us to pay so some rich travelers can enjoy Amtrak steaks? A lot of people in this country cannot afford the Amtrak steaks or Amtrak in general and a lot of people have bad or even no service. Are you who insist on Amtrak steaks willing to pay $30-$40 a steak for a steak which at Outback costs half that (or pay much higher room charges?) Someone has to pay for you to enjoy your Amtrak steaks at $25. Think about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for better quality of service but people act like Boardman is the worst thing that ever happened to Amtrak because a few trains lost their Amtrak steaks (and that's mainly because of a delayed CAF order). Meanwhile most of PA would like just a direct train to Chicago and would gladly take cafe car food (and we had that for about nine years and I didn't hear complaints until we lost it). And there's a lot of people out there who would like any train, period. If I can afford 3-4 more LD routes by making every LD train dinerless and serve more people across the country, I would.

It all comes down to money. If Congress gave Amtrak $2B a year, you'd see more routes and better service. But with the current subsidy, not everyone is going to get what they want. So there has to be choices made. Everyone (especially me) wants what is best for them personally. But you have to realize that there are two sides to every decision they made. You don't have to like the decisions they made and can be angry with them. But unless you increase the subsidy, something's going to go. If the diner car(s) don't go, what does? And I can pretty much guarantee someone else will complain. Unless a bunch of money falls from the sky to Amtrak, costs go up and things have to go. That's why Amtrak has overall cut service since 1971. Their costs have risen faster than the government subsidy. At least when I say I want something, I'm willing to at least answer what to cut to make up for it. You may not (and don't) agree with my proposal but the only way to increase service somewhere when under budget is to cut something else.

And if Amtrak does get the $2B, where's that going to come from? You know what the answer to that will be. Look in the mirror ... or your wallet.

Who in the heck is going to ride your precious Philly-Chicago train without some kind of food service?
 
Using only cafe cars on LD trains is not going to work. I may be able to survive on microwaved hot dogs for three days, but the average traveler will not find that acceptable.
 
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I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.

Woohoo! I had no idea!
 
I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.

Woohoo! I had no idea!
I eat the steaks because I rarely get out (no $$) to restaurants for steak and I don't cook beef at home. Heck, I rarely cook anything. :p
 
I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.

Woohoo! I had no idea!
Me neither!!!! My bank account wouldn't agree, but, hey, someone on this forum said it so it must be true! :lol:
If that same logic is true, on my next LD trip, I'll have gone from rags (non-train life) to riches (western LD trips) to rags (Cardinal and LSL) in the last few years. What a roller coaster ride it's been! LOL
 
I used to always have the Steak for Dinner on LD Trains when in Sleepers ( not worth the a la carte charge when in Coach) but with the rising Fares and the Starvation,CONO,Chief and now the Lake Shore not having Steaks, I guess I'm back to being a poor Coach slub eating carry on food or overpriced Mica-food from the cafe!
 
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The purpose of the dining car and food service has been to attract people to passenger rail. As the quality and availability of food goes down so will the ridership. We will not ride any LD route without food service. I am certain that other people feel the same. Can you imagine going from NY to Seattle without food service? I can't and won't.
I did Philly to California and back and ate only cafe car food and a bag of chips I brought with me. I did not eat one meal in the dining car. Believe me, it's possible.


Who in the heck is going to ride your precious Philly-Chicago train without some kind of food service?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Three Rivers never had a dining car. I have ridden the train twice.

2002 ridership on Three Rivers: 124,085

2003 ridership on Three Rivers: 137,234

2004 ridership on Three Rivers: 149,562

That's over 400,000 riders in three years. In 2004, 11.2% of the passengers was PHL-CHI so figure there was about 16,750 passengers. No diner car. We survived. What we can't survive is NO train.
 
The purpose of the dining car and food service has been to attract people to passenger rail. As the quality and availability of food goes down so will the ridership. We will not ride any LD route without food service. I am certain that other people feel the same. Can you imagine going from NY to Seattle without food service? I can't and won't.
I did Philly to California and back and ate only cafe car food and a bag of chips I brought with me. I did not eat one meal in the dining car. Believe me, it's possible.
Sure it's possible, but that's not addressing the comment which mentions dining car plus food service. You specifically mentioned food service and not just dining cars in a previous post. You didn't actually go without food service if you went with cafe car food.
 
I have also said in the past I think some people make too big of a deal about the food service (or lack of). The main goal of Amtrak is transportation. Food service is secondary. If there is food and beverage losses, someone's paying and we know who it is. Is it really fair for the rest of us to pay so some rich travelers can enjoy Amtrak steaks? A lot of people in this country cannot afford the Amtrak steaks or Amtrak in general and a lot of people have bad or even no service. Are you who insist on Amtrak steaks willing to pay $30-$40 a steak for a steak which at Outback costs half that (or pay much higher room charges?) Someone has to pay for you to enjoy your Amtrak steaks at $25. Think about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for better quality of service but people act like Boardman is the worst thing that ever happened to Amtrak because a few trains lost their Amtrak steaks (and that's mainly because of a delayed CAF order). Meanwhile most of PA would like just a direct train to Chicago and would gladly take cafe car food (and we had that for about nine years and I didn't hear complaints until we lost it). And there's a lot of people out there who would like any train, period. If I can afford 3-4 more LD routes by making every LD train dinerless and serve more people across the country, I would.

It all comes down to money. If Congress gave Amtrak $2B a year, you'd see more routes and better service. But with the current subsidy, not everyone is going to get what they want. So there has to be choices made. Everyone (especially me) wants what is best for them personally. But you have to realize that there are two sides to every decision they made. You don't have to like the decisions they made and can be angry with them. But unless you increase the subsidy, something's going to go. If the diner car(s) don't go, what does? And I can pretty much guarantee someone else will complain. Unless a bunch of money falls from the sky to Amtrak, costs go up and things have to go. That's why Amtrak has overall cut service since 1971. Their costs have risen faster than the government subsidy. At least when I say I want something, I'm willing to at least answer what to cut to make up for it. You may not (and don't) agree with my proposal but the only way to increase service somewhere when under budget is to cut something else.

And if Amtrak does get the $2B, where's that going to come from? You know what the answer to that will be. Look in the mirror ... or your wallet.
Somehow I doubt that there is actual evidence that, in terms of rail service, "most of PA" would just like a direct train to Chicago with cafe car service.

And, in terms of funding, such a small increase would be practically unnoticed by your and my wallets. And, so long as it is tied to actual improvements (increases in service), I'm all for it - bring it on.
 
Assuming 150 million taxpayers, that $2B is $13.33. Not even the cost of a meal in an Amtrak diner. My guess is that most people wouldn't even notice it.

There's room to improve and reconsider how Amtrak does dining car service. Frankly, I'd be fine with looking at ways to provide more robust meals from a cafe car-style setup or something that scales better than a full-service diner. It may not be the same experience, but I'll still ride Amtrak trains even without a dining car, as long as on longer trips I can obtain decent meals (moreso than what the cafe car currently serves.)
 
Assuming 150 million taxpayers, that $2B is $13.33. Not even the cost of a meal in an Amtrak diner. My guess is that most people wouldn't even notice it.

There's room to improve and reconsider how Amtrak does dining car service. Frankly, I'd be fine with looking at ways to provide more robust meals from a cafe car-style setup or something that scales better than a full-service diner. It may not be the same experience, but I'll still ride Amtrak trains even without a dining car, as long as on longer trips I can obtain decent meals (moreso than what the cafe car currently serves.)
Me, too---IF a) the quality and variety of foods offered in the cafe improved; b) lounge space were available to eat in; and c) sleeper fares dropped if/when meals were no longer bundled with the fare. One possiblity might be to re-fit the dining cars as expanded cafe cars....
 
Personally while we are talking about lounge cars. I would prefer to go back to the original streamliners and pull their interior design. I really don't like the booth set up at all. It has it's pros for eating but the other is just classier looking and feels more homely.
 
I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.

Woohoo! I had no idea!
I eat the steaks because I rarely get out (no $$) to restaurants for steak and I don't cook beef at home. Heck, I rarely cook anything. :p
Blue, you realize you are probably paying more $ for that Amtrak steak that you would a similar quality steak at Outback or Longhorn.

Amsnag, PHL/ORL St. Patrick's Day 2017 (3/17/17 :) ):

Roomette on SS: $201, Roomette on SM: $310

$109 for the steak as well as breakfast (lunch included on 98?). Even if you have a travel companion, that's $54.50 for 2-3 meals. The face value on the Amtrak steak is $24.75 (https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/815/302/Silver-Meteor-Dining-Car-Menu-0416.pdf).

I would call the sleeper passengers the "rich" among Amtrak.

https://www.narprail.org/site/assets/files/1038/trains_2015.pdf

SM: 298,592 coach, 43,407 sleeper. So only about 12.7% of SM passengers use sleepers. The average fare for a sleeper passenger is $278 vs. $87 for a coach passenger (the average distance is 583 miles for coach and 942 miles for sleeper). So the sleeper passenger pays over 3x as much even though they are traveling less than 2x the distance.

LSL: 314,449 coach, 38,555 sleeper, 10.9% of LSL passengers in sleepers, average fare $247 vs. $60, average distance is 443 mi coach/721 mi sleeper). Here, sleepers are 4x the cost of coach even though again less than 2x the distance.

SWC: 299,214 coach, 63,785 sleeper, 17.6% in sleepers, fare: $315 vs. $82, distance: 1382 mi vs. 783 mi)

Clearly there's plenty of people who are out of the sleeper price range and the diner car people act like is the most important thing in the planet serves about 10-20% of the entire train plus coach passengers who are willing to pay the $24.75 for the steak vs. $10 for cafe car food. I think you can say at most only 20-30% of a LD train eats in the diner car at all.

You (and NARP) act like the typical Amtrak LD passenger books a sleeper car and needs to eat fine gourmet food (well Amtrak's definition of dine gourmet food). But the statistics clearly show a majority of LD passengers are not typical and many people either can't afford or choose not to spend the extra money for the Amtrak steaks.
 
I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.

Woohoo! I had no idea!
I eat the steaks because I rarely get out (no $$) to restaurants for steak and I don't cook beef at home. Heck, I rarely cook anything. :p
Blue, you realize you are probably paying more $ for that Amtrak steak that you would a similar quality steak at Outback or Longhorn.

Amsnag, PHL/ORL St. Patrick's Day 2017 (3/17/17 :) ):

Roomette on SS: $201, Roomette on SM: $310

$109 for the steak as well as breakfast (lunch included on 98?). Even if you have a travel companion, that's $54.50 for 2-3 meals. The face value on the Amtrak steak is $24.75 (https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/815/302/Silver-Meteor-Dining-Car-Menu-0416.pdf).

I would call the sleeper passengers the "rich" among Amtrak.

https://www.narprail.org/site/assets/files/1038/trains_2015.pdf

SM: 298,592 coach, 43,407 sleeper. So only about 12.7% of SM passengers use sleepers. The average fare for a sleeper passenger is $278 vs. $87 for a coach passenger (the average distance is 583 miles for coach and 942 miles for sleeper). So the sleeper passenger pays over 3x as much even though they are traveling less than 2x the distance.

LSL: 314,449 coach, 38,555 sleeper, 10.9% of LSL passengers in sleepers, average fare $247 vs. $60, average distance is 443 mi coach/721 mi sleeper). Here, sleepers are 4x the cost of coach even though again less than 2x the distance.

SWC: 299,214 coach, 63,785 sleeper, 17.6% in sleepers, fare: $315 vs. $82, distance: 1382 mi vs. 783 mi)

Clearly there's plenty of people who are out of the sleeper price range and the diner car people act like is the most important thing in the planet serves about 10-20% of the entire train plus coach passengers who are willing to pay the $24.75 for the steak vs. $10 for cafe car food. I think you can say at most only 20-30% of a LD train eats in the diner car at all.

You (and NARP) act like the typical Amtrak LD passenger books a sleeper car and needs to eat fine gourmet food (well Amtrak's definition of dine gourmet food). But the statistics clearly show a majority of LD passengers are not typical and many people either can't afford or choose not to spend the extra money for the Amtrak steaks.
I pay for the sleeper accommodations if I can afford it, regardless if meals are included or not. Most of my sleeper trips have been with points (during the zone years). If I have the $$ or points to pay for a room, I'll get a room because I'd rather sleep in a bed than in coach. I've skipped included meals in the past, so I guess I threw away good money doing that, uh?

"needs to eat fine gourmet food" - me?? Yeah, right. You certainly don't know me.
 
I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.

Woohoo! I had no idea!
I eat the steaks because I rarely get out (no $$) to restaurants for steak and I don't cook beef at home. Heck, I rarely cook anything. :p
Blue, you realize you are probably paying more $ for that Amtrak steak that you would a similar quality steak at Outback or Longhorn.

Amsnag, PHL/ORL St. Patrick's Day 2017 (3/17/17 :) ):

Roomette on SS: $201, Roomette on SM: $310

$109 for the steak as well as breakfast (lunch included on 98?). Even if you have a travel companion, that's $54.50 for 2-3 meals. The face value on the Amtrak steak is $24.75 (https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/815/302/Silver-Meteor-Dining-Car-Menu-0416.pdf).
You can't just choose a date with the largest price difference and draw meaningful conclusions from it. Just one day later from the same destinations (March 18, 2017), there is only $29 separating the Roomette prices on the Silver Star and Silver Meteor. Most dates for that sample month seem to have either a $29 or $50 price difference. That's very different than over a hundred dollars for two or three meals. However, we're still over seven months out: Those prices are going to vary in the interim, changing the value equation. Further, the Meteor and Star are not a completely direct comparison. They serve slightly different markets; Pricing (and value to passengers) will not be equal even assuming the Silver Star gets the dining car back.
 
Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points. Additionally, when my ex-boyfriend and I traveled together, we'd split the cost of the roomette, making it affordable for both of us.

I know people who can afford sleepers who prefer to travel in coach, and I know people who travel in sleepers who couldn't afford them without points. You can't draw a conclusion about someone and their attitude simply by where they happen to be sitting on the train.
 
Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points.
How do you accumulate enough points to afford a sleeper? Wouldn't that require a lot of travel = a lot of $ (or maybe your job pays for it)? You may not be filthy rich but if you can get a $201 roommette on just points I know you spent way more than that on travel to get it.

You can't draw a conclusion about someone and their attitude simply by where they happen to be sitting on the train.
And you can't assume that everyone on LD trains will miss the diner car or that the diner car is a necessity for LD travel. Lots of people can deal without it just fine (me included).

I'm actually surprised the SM and SS are so close on some days. Are they pricing it under the assumption that the diner car will be back on the SS by then? Prices between the SM and SS on Thanksgiving Week 2016 are pretty close on some days as well (11/22/16: $239 vs. $251, 11/23/16 (Day before Thanksgiving): $222 vs. $251).
 
Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points.
How do you accumulate enough points to afford a sleeper? Wouldn't that require a lot of travel = a lot of $ (or maybe your job pays for it)? You may not be filthy rich but if you can get a $201 roommette on just points I know you spent way more than that on travel to get it.
I rack up points using the credit card. Others rack up points using the shopping portal. No, you don't have to travel to get points.
 
I use the AGR card for absolutely everything. Plus, I only take one LD trip every 1-2 years, so that gives me time to rack up points.

Stop making asinine assumptions about me and my income.
 
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Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points.
How do you accumulate enough points to afford a sleeper? Wouldn't that require a lot of travel = a lot of $ (or maybe your job pays for it)? You may not be filthy rich but if you can get a $201 roommette on just points I know you spent way more than that on travel to get it.
I can't speak for anyone else, and I realize that the question wasn't directed at me, but in my case our next sleeper car trip was paid for by switching to a different energy provider (10k points) and then points per dollar spent on power. That money would have gone to a power provider one way or another, so might as well accrue points for keeping the lights on.

I would still ride in a sleeper even if meals weren't provided, or we're downgraded further, but to be perfectly honest, watching the sun rise over the San Joaquin Valley while eating french toast with my family was a real highlight of my first trip on the CS and I'm looking forward to doing that this October with my daughter and parents while traversing the Allegheny mountains on the CL.
 
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