CSX and NS blatantly lie to STB again

[neroden]

This is not going to go well for them. I would expect the STB to hand them their asses.

STB has the power to remove their right to operate railroads *entirely*, and frankly CSX seems to be doing their best to invite the STB to do so. That probably won't happen immediately; first, CSX and NS will be ruled against on everything, then they will attempt to fight the STB in court (without a leg to stand on, legally), and then the STB will get really mad.

It is important to note that everything CSX and NS are saying here is blatant ******** and the STB understands the railroad industry well enough to recognize that they're being bullshitted. This is an attempt by CSX to create ******** for a future court case (they are hoping to snow an ignorant judge) where they attempt to subvert the STB's authority in court, which will *not* end well for them since the STB retains sweeping powers which no court will dare take away.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...rebuttal-to-amtrak-filing-in-gulf-coast-case/

 

[neroden]

Furthermore, this is a really stupid fight for them to pick. The reciprocal switching case, which could actually have severe economic impact on CSX and NS, is about to come up at the STB, and they're ticking off and alienating the same board which is going to judge them in that case. There will be a mandatory reciprocal switching rule enforced against them -- count on it.

CSX was almost certain to lose the Pan Am merger attempt too, but they seem to be trying to guarantee it.

 

[joelkfla]

STB has the power to remove their right to operate railroads *entirely*, and frankly CSX seems to be doing their best to invite the STB to do so. That probably won't happen immediately; first, CSX and NS will be ruled against on everything, then they will attempt to fight the STB in court (without a leg to stand on, legally), and then the STB will get really mad.

That would never happen. They are "too big to fail", just like the banks & oil companies that get a slap on the wrist for flagrant violations. The economic and supply chain affects would be a political nightmare.

 

[Amtrak25]

For the 135 mile route, NS is an issue for all of 2 miles. Their hysterics look particularly paranoid and stupid.

 

[chrsjrcj]

For the 135 mile route, NS is an issue for all of 2 miles. Their hysterics look particularly paranoid and stupid.

Maybe concerned about the STB setting a precedent for future Amtrak expansions?

 

[PaTrainFan]

Maybe concerned about the STB setting a precedent for future Amtrak expansions?

This is likely it. The stakes are high for Amtrak's ambitious corridor expansion plans and CSX and NS are pushing as much as they can to set a precendent for other fights.

 

[jis]

This is likely it. The stakes are high for Amtrak's ambitious corridor expansion plans and CSX and NS are pushing as much as they can to set a precendent for other fights.

Most fortunately precedents get set both ways. So the outcome of this deliberation could be either pretty good or pretty bad for them precedent-wise.

 

[neroden]

That would never happen. They are "too big to fail", just like the banks & oil companies that get a slap on the wrist for flagrant violations. The economic and supply chain affects would be a political nightmare.

STB has the power to take away operational authority and *assign it to someone else* in an emergency, or any case where the owners are failing to provide reasonable levels of service. And it's been done in the past! There's many precedents!

It's not like they'd shut the railroad down, it just wouldn't be in the hands of CSX management any more. CSX stockholders would still technically own the railroad, but it would be operated by someone else (the STB could assign it to UP, or BNSF, or CP, or Genessee & Wyoming, or Amtrak, or whoever they thought was capable of managing the dispatching office). This is perhaps more likely to happen to NS, which doesn't seem able to deliver freight on time. Anyway, it's probably the second-most extreme penalty the STB can apply, but like I said, plenty of precedent for it.

The STB is unlikely to go that far immediately. But this is still really, really stupid behavior by CSX and NS management, because what they're doing is alienating the board which judges them. They're going to lose over and over again if they keep this up. It's like lying to the judge in a way the judge can spot -- it doesn't generally go well for a plaintiff or a defendant.

When appearing before the STB, a sensible management would strive for the appearance of reasonable and cooperative behavior, in order to convince the STB that they are trustworthy and should be given leeway. CSX and NS are doing the exact opposite. Could be really good for Amtrak, of course. Either way, it's incredibly stupid by CSX & NS management and will have severe repercussions as they lose cases which are far more important to them (such as reciprocal switching and the Pan Am merger).

 

[me_little_me]

On the other hand, CSX and NS may be thinking that if they can lie and appeal long enough until a new administration takes over in 3 years that was pro private industry and anti-Amtrak or even one more year if a different party takes over control of both houses of congress and who answer to a Fearless Leader, they might win in the end. After all, there are multiple court layers to appeal through.

Remember, if you are going to lose now, delaying as much as possible is more likely to bring better results than accepting the loss, no matter how justified it is.

 

[dlagrua]

Several years back the Sunset Ltd ran regularly on those tracks and there were no problems. Today Amtrak wants to run on a small portion and the freight railroads don't want it. This goes back to what I have always maintained. If Amtrak has all these plans to expand the service lets see them first obtain the track rights to do so. Some independent less busy short lines might entertain Amtrak service for a cash influx but that may be about it. The big railroads don't want any part of Amtrak and they are now proving it. Also remember that Warren Buffet who owns the BNSF was a big Biden supporter and has an influence on what this administration does. The last hurdle is that there is no room on tracks that are constantly full of freight train traffic.
Am I wrong about all this?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The whole objective is get the Federal Government or Amtrak to make improvements to the freight railroads. They just want the money before the trains. If you double track this route add high bridges over the river traffic and a bypass for the port traffic. Then you can run your four trains a day.